Posted by HAPPY IN FL on 12/19/04 6:20pm
Msg #14123

Seasonal "Miss" Giving

At this joyous Holiday Season, thoughts go out to Giving- helping others- many less fortunate- homeless- or in dire need.

The Salvation Army has over the decades extended help and assistance to millions of people at Christmas time, raising Funds by the Bell Ringers and the Kettles placed outside stores- at the Malls and sundry places..

I heard a news report that " Best Buy, Home Depot and Target" have disallowed the Bell Ringers to be outside their premises.

It puts a"Knot in my stomach" to hear of such a happening. This Organization are the real "First Responders" to any Tragedy anywhere--Whether Hurricanes in Florida or South in General-- or New York after 9/11 - always Giving- Giving- Giving -with a friendly smile- asking nothing in return from those being helped-- I cannot describe adequately my personal feeling about this.. Thankyou all for listening!

We wish everyone on this Forum a Very Happy Chrismas and Prosperous New Year!!! Keep Safe.

Reply by CaliNotary on 12/19/04 7:20pm
Msg #14127

I think the problem is that it's not just a seasonal thing, at least not here in CA. It's virtually impossible to come out of a Wal Mart without having one or two people set up collecting money for whatever their charity is. Every time I go to the AM/PM across the street from me there's a guy hovering around to wash windshields. It's a normal occurrence for me to pass people begging for change at the end of a freeway offramp. And the list goes on and on.

I think these companies are just trying to be considerate of their customers like me, who are sick to death of being accosted for money several times a day. I doubt that it's directed at the Salvation Army personally, but it gets to the point where a line really needs to be drawn. While I'm sorry that it causes problems for the Salvation Army's fundraising, I commend the stores for keeping everybody away year round.

Reply by CarolynCO on 12/19/04 8:05pm
Msg #14130

I believe it was 60 Minutes, or it could have been Dateline or something along that line, they aired the story last week. Apparently, Target has always had a no solicitation rule. Always during the past, they made exception at Christmas for the Salvation Army. This year, they decided to enforce the no solicitation 100%. Apparently, though, they are not not just turning their backs on the Salvation Army and the people in need, because throughout the year, the TV program gave a dollar amount, but I don't recall, Target, as a company, donated a generous sum to the Salvation Army.

Along Cali's post, a few months ago I was downtown. An individual approached me for money. I never carry money with me when I'm downtown because I've had not my purse was nonor my wallet stolen, but all the money I had in my wallet was stolen. So, I didn't lie to the guy when I told him that I didn't have any money. Instead of walking away, he said, if you have something other than change, that will do. I once again told him that I didn't have any money, change, bills, nothing. He then went so far as to tell me that he'd accept credit cards ... I'm not too sure if he expected me to just hand a credit card over to him, or if he was going to whip out a credit card reader ... I didn't give him a chance to explain, and since it was obvious that he wasn't going to walk away, I walked away from him.

Reply by CarolynCO on 12/19/04 8:08pm
Msg #14131

Re: correction ...

Well, it's obvious I didn't read my message *before* hitting the post key.

What my fingers were *supposed* to type was ... because I've had not my purse nor my wallet stolen, ...

Reply by HisHughness on 12/19/04 10:25pm
Msg #14137

Happy in FL unhappily bemoans:

***with a friendly smile- asking nothing in return from those being helped***

I give to the Salvation Army each Christmas. It is, in fact, the only religious charity I support. Do not, however, make the mistake of believing that the Salvation Army largesse which stems from the largesse of people such as myself and you, Happy, does not come with strings. It does. For your turkey and dressing you are expected to submit to Christian indoctrination. And that is what it is, whether it is a John Bircher expecting it, the Americans for Democratic Action, or my local Unitarian Church.

I help fill up the kettles because I think, on balance, that the Salvation Army is a positive influence in a needy segment of society -- and it's for damn sure Episcopalians (nor we elitist Unitarians) by and large aren't going to do what the Salvation Army does. But I understand why a commercial enterprise would not want to give them a pulpit. Were I in the shoes of a mall owner, I feel confident I would make the same decision.

One of the distressing things about religiously affiliated people, Happy, is that they so frequently are blind to other, less socially approved points of view. God has told them something, and in their mind, you just don't question that ultimate authority.

Reply by Happy in Fl on 12/20/04 1:01am
Msg #14141

Hugh stated ther are "strings attached..."

Agreed when homeless go to a Rescue Mission for Dinner---Some are actually lodged there-- then the S.A. endeavors to help to get them out of a life-style or whatever PIT they be in--so I agree there.. If they succeed- then there is 'one less' to annoy someone.(BTW- there are many who have been helped start over that way.)

Also I realize the Panhandlers in some sections of the country are obtrusive as mentioned , 'and it is annoying in that sense-'--but to judge the S.A. in the same line of thought---? those are the ones they reach out to help. (We are not plaqued that way as much here). Thats MHO..

Thankyou for giving your input- -personally, I hope this Tradition is not Going Away!

Reply by HisHughness on 12/20/04 1:19am
Msg #14142

Just to clarify, Happy, my comments had nothing to do with comparing the Salvation Army to panhandlers or whether they are helped to change their lifestyle. They were directed solely at the Bible-thumping quid pro quo exacted by the Army for its hot meals. As one who thinks he was born right the first time, I find that unpalatable as dessert.

Reply by Happy in Fl on 12/20/04 1:46am
Msg #14144

Hugh- I understand. .Always appreciate your input--; Keep on Keeping on..!

Reply by Holly/NC on 12/20/04 6:19pm
Msg #14206

I have to agree with the other posters who do not miss the bell-ringers. Besides the fact that Target donates millions to the Salvation Army (and other charities) each year, I personally do not appreciate being accosted for money every time I go shopping. I think no less of Target for the decision not to allow the bell-ringers. Don't even get me started on how awful Wal-Mart is--not with regard to the Salvation Army, but otherwise--I will gladly (and often do) travel across town to shop at Target to avoid Wal-Mart for many, many reasons.

Also, I agree with Hugh about the bible-thumping issue. I do think that the Salvation Army is wonderful about helping folks when they are down and out...I know this from personal experience. As someone who lives in a hurricane-prone area, I've seen the Salvation Army out there serving hot meals when most of the area was without electricity for a week or longer. I will gladly support the SA over many charities despite the fact that I am not a religious person, simply because they do good work.

Reply by Terri - CA on 12/21/04 11:50am
Msg #14246

One Christmas I remember going into a Warehouse music store to buy a gift for a family member. Outside was a woman with a shopping cart dressed in rags, the child was dirty and was also dressed in rags asking for "donations." I didn't have any change at that time, so while I was paying for the item, I mentioned to the clerk about how sad their situation was. What the clerk told me next, apalled me and I was livid. The clerk stated to me, "Oh don't feel too sorry for her, at about 5:00 p.m. a man shows up in a new Cadillac, she and the child take off the rags, and put on very nice coats, get in the car and drive away." Needless to say, when I exited the store, I avoided the woman and her child. I work hard for my money, and I certainly wasn't going to give it to someone who just didn't want to work for it.

Hmm, then it wasn't long after that I heard a report on TV that panhandlers make upwards to $50,000 or more a year panhandling!

I, do, however, occasionally give to those bell ringers at Christmas time.

Terri
Lancaster, CA

Reply by Happy in Fl-;Terri-Ca on 12/22/04 6:10am
Msg #14306

Terri- I saw that same scenerio- start to finish in Rome, Italy, when visiting the Vatican .
That woman and child must have immigrated here--really!

Of course there are are many, many abuses and abusers; guess it comes down to- giving so 'your left hand don't know what the right hand is doing'- give from the heart- don't look back-- don't expect praise for the gift ,and expect nothing in return.

Kinda like 'casting your bread upon the water- and it will return to you many times over'.

Christmas is really 'an all year thing'. Happy Holidays--and thankyou for All the Posts!!

Reply by Art_MD on 12/22/04 7:45am
Msg #14309


While working overseas, in less developed coutries, I know of situations where children (usually infants)are dropped off at a place where they are dressed in rags, and women take them out to panhandle.

The parents have free babysitters, the infants are actually vell taken care of, and the panhandlers make money.

What a world....