Posted by Lois-Mo on 12/10/04 7:54pm
Msg #13281

Signature outside margin on DOT

Does anyone know, if the borrower's signature extends into the margins of the Deed of Trust,
will it be rejected by the Lender or Title Co.? Thanks.

Reply by Ted_MI on 12/10/04 8:27pm
Msg #13285

Lois,

I don't know if I can provide you with a definitive answer, as my experience deals with a mortgage and not a deed of trust and also with initialling not signing. But what happened is somehat similar. I had instructed the borrowers where to initial the pages of the mortgage at the bottom. Most of the initials were fine. However, one extended way down into the margin. And there were explicit instructions in the package that no ink marks should be in the margin (on the mortgage).

So I emailed the signing company and said that I was sorry about what happened and volunteered to do the whole package over again at no charge to them. because I really felt that it was my fault that I wasn't specific enough with my instructions to the borrowers. But you know what happened - I never heard back from them. So I don't know what to tell you. I still feel like I did the right thing by offering to redo the package. But conceivably it wasn't as critical a circumstance as I had feared.

Reply by Lois-Mo on 12/10/04 10:31pm
Msg #13301

Thanks for the input. It certainly puts me at ease, somewhat. I called the title co., no answer. The signing co. does'nt know if it will be a problem or not, and said to go ahead and send the docs back and see what happens. Just thought someone on this board might know.

Reply by BrendaTX on 12/10/04 10:34pm
Msg #13303

Except for one SS, I have never had a request to avoid the margins.

I would not worry too much about it.

Reply by Lois-Mo on 12/10/04 10:55pm
Msg #13310

Thanks Brenda. I'll stop worrying.

Reply by BrendaTX on 12/10/04 11:00pm
Msg #13313

You're welcome. Hope I am right.

I suspect that the reason that it has been requested is because it makes it easier for digital imaging purposes. It's a good precaution for that purpose, but from a validly signed document, I am *guessing* it's not going to be a big deal.

Reply by Art_MD on 12/13/04 8:54am
Msg #13404

I find one problem with DOTs is that the space for notarization is too small and there is often not enough room for a seal. Several time instructions say do not allow seal to cover any printing, then they don't leave any room except near the margins. Several times I've had to add a seperate acknowledgement.

Reply by Bob-CHicago on 12/10/04 11:33pm
Msg #13317

I know of one where it is a problem

WAMU HELOC and Second mtg instructions are very specific that NO!!!!
marks of any kind, signatures , initials, stamps, fly droppings, etc may be within 1" of the edge of any side of page.
Sometimes they even include a template.
I put the "sign here" sticky that comes with the pkg on the left edge of the sig line and instruct bwr to stay to the right and then do the same on the right hand signature line.

Reply by Ted_MI on 12/11/04 8:32am
Msg #13333

Re: I know of one where it is a problem

Bob,

The situation I referenced above (where one of the initiallings strayed way down into the margin, contrary to the instructions given me) was a WaMu HELOC.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 12/11/04 6:44am
Msg #13327

MO Recording Guidelines

Here's a snippet from the State of Missouri recording guidelines effective January 1, 2002:

"Documents must have a minimum top margin of 3" (reserved for the Recorder’s certification and use) and minimum side and bottom margins of 3/4". Nonessential information such as form numbers, page numbers or "customer notations" may be placed in the margins. Documents may be recorded if minor portions of seals or incidental writings extend beyond the margins, but the Recorder will not be liable for not showing any seal or information that extends beyond the margins of the permanent archival record."

Does this mean your particular Deed of Trust will be accepted? I don't have a clue & wouldn't even if I saw the document itself. One recorder's definition of "minor" may not be another's. I've heard of instances where DOT's have been rejected by certain county recorders due to information or signatures "bleeding" into the margins. It's always best to try & keep the margins as clean as possible. JMHO!

Reply by Whew! Dennis said it before me on 12/11/04 12:20pm
Msg #13340

Re: MO Recording Guidelines

In my state, you cannot have any writing in the margins. So it really is not a lender or title company "requirement", but a state requirement.

A lot also depends on how picky the clerk is that is proofing the document. It always generated more work for the recorder to reject the document, but it just depends.

This is why I have always said you must know your state's notary laws AND recording requirements.

Reply by BrendaTX on 12/13/04 12:22am
Msg #13397

Thank you, Dennis

This is a really good lesson for me and I will look into my own guidelines again to see if this information applies.

Thanks for sharing.