Posted by Happy in Fl on 12/28/04 8:04pm
Msg #14682

Simply Inquisitive

.....and curious.

Are Notary Publics considered "An Officer of the Court"?

If 'Yea or Nay'- is it the same in all States?

Are Attorneys 'per se', all considered likewise?

When an Attorney fullfills all educational (and perhaps 'internship') , and becomes a Member of the BAR, does he/she then automatically become an O of C?

Thanks in advance for helping shed some light on this inquiry..

Reply by Ted_MI on 12/28/04 9:57pm
Msg #14711

Hi,

I don't know if I can answer your questions, but I probably can shed some light on some of the issues you have raised. As far as becoming an attorney and the process, the educational end of it is just a part. The major aspect of becoming a licensed attorney is passing the bar exam. And that is a bear!! A truly grueling experience, usually three to four days. The first two days are the multi-state and it tests on six (or maybe it was eight) core subjects. This is offered I believe in the vast majority of states with the major exception of Louisiana because of their history with the Napoleonic code. Then the third day is various written essays which test your knowledge of the law of the state where you are taking it. If there is a fourth day, it usually is on professional responsibility.

Some states have what is called an "integrated" bar. In other words to be a licensed attorney in that state one has to join the state bar. Michigan for example has an integrated bar. And yes, I believe once one becomes a licensed attorney one becomes an officer of the court. Or conceivably it is when one is specifically admitted to that court.

I really don't know about internship requirements, although in the past Michigan did not have any. I believe there are some continuing education requirements though.

No, I do not believe that notary publics (or is it notaries public) are viewed as "officers of the court". Conceivably as public officials.

Reply by BrendaTX on 12/28/04 10:04pm
Msg #14712

Yeah...whatever Ted said.

Reply by Ted_MI on 12/29/04 9:54am
Msg #14826

Ahh c'mon Brenda, I didn't think it was that complex. Heh, I am sure "His Hughness" knew what I was talking about!!

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 12/28/04 10:10pm
Msg #14715

I called a friend of mine (retired attorney) and asked him if Notaries Public (which is the correct pluralization of the term) are "officers of the court". He said, typically no, except when they are a part of the court proceedings, not as a witness, but in an official notarial capacity. (Okay, that was as clear as mud. )

For the record, from http://dictionary.law.com/

officer of the court
n. any person who has an obligation to promote justice and effective operation of the judicial system, including judges, the attorneys who appear in court, bailiffs, clerks and other personnel. As officers of the court lawyers have an absolute ethical duty to tell judges the truth, including avoiding dishonesty or evasion about reasons the attorney or his/her client is not appearing, the location of documents and other matters related to conduct of the courts.

Reply by HisHughness on 12/28/04 10:27pm
Msg #14720

Logic tells me that if you are a member of a court of general (not limited) jurisdiction in a state, you are also a member of all lower courts. I do not, though, know whether you would be an officer of the appellate courts unless you are sworn in. When I became an attorney, I went through swearing in ceremonies for the Georgia Superior, Appeals and Supreme Courts. Also, I don't think you would be deemed to be an officer of the federal courts unless you likewise were sworn in there. I had to be sworn in separately for the U.S. 5th Circuit Court, which admitted me to practice in all the lower courts in that district -- trial courts, administrative tribunals, bankrupcy, etc.

Notaries are officers of the state, not of the court. If you are using your state officer to advance the business of the judiciary, I would assume you would be acting as an officer of the court in that given instance.

Reply by Happy in Fl on 12/29/04 3:30am
Msg #14806

Re: Simply Inquisitive/Got it!

Thankyou so much for the input!

That cleared up my knowledge a lot on that. It was something that 'plaqued' my thinking for
some time now- and your replies helped a lot.

Reply by Ted_MI on 12/29/04 9:44am
Msg #14823

Hi Hugh,

What you say comports with my recollection of my experience. I initially stated in my earlier post that one became an officer of the court when one became a licensed attorney. Then I corrected myself and made some statement relative to specific admission. I think your distinction between admission to state and federal courts is accurate too.

You mentioned the Georgia courts. So were you able to waive in to practice in the state of Texas?

Reply by HisHughness on 12/29/04 11:25am
Msg #14844

Georgia and Texas did not have comity at the time, which was fine with me. I came home to Texas to get back into journalism, and wasn't interested in practicing law any longer.