Posted by NNA Lover on 7/24/04 9:10am
Msg #4902

AN ANSWER to Hugh, Paul and Sylvia

Sorry I have not responded sooner. However, being that we are here at the end of the month I am VERY busy unlike Hugh who has all this time to spend on the board bantering or to go camping. (Hope you and your grandyungins are having fun.)

Sylvia said /// When they passed the law in GA making it an attorney only state, why was the NNA there smiling as the law was being signed? This hurt a lot of GA signing agents. (some of whom live near the Florida border and taken a commission in Florida so they can carry on doing loan signings.

>>> This is not true. The Georgia Supreme Court made this ruling. Are you saying NNA was behind the bench smiling and looking down on the Supreme Court as they ruled. Get real. I suspect a lot of Sylvia’s bantering is not based upon facts but rather on rumor and 1/2 truths. She tries to come off as an expert; yet, her statements don’t always to support what is factual.

Sylvia said /// "The chief goal of the NNA is to provide information on notarial laws, customs, and practices, and to support the nation's 4.5 million notaries with a wide variety of instructional programs, professional services, and advocacy efforts." Unfortunately this is no longer true of the NNA. The chief goal is to recruit signing agents and make more money! They used to be an advocate for the notary public. Unfotunately they lost sight of their mission when they entered the signing agent business.

>>> In my opinion, as one of the 4.5 million notaries, the NNA is serving notaries when it provides us with opportunities to make money. I personally am very happy with what they are doing.

Hugh said /// Establish a link from the NNA home page to the NNA signing agent section. (Hugh said there is no link. This is one of his complaints.)

>>>There is a link. There has been a link for as long as I have been a member. You log into the signing agent section.

Hugh said /// First, the NNA is a non-profit organization supposedly created for and operated for the benefit of the members, not the executives and staff. It is MY organization, not theirs, which is a point made repeatedly in the prior discussion.

>>>Where in the world did you ever get the idea the NNA belongs to you and should serve your individual whims? They clearly outline the benefits that you will have as a member on their website. They have a responsibility to provide those benefits. Not one of those benefits is that you get to run the show or even vote. If you wanted that benefit you should have asked if they have it. Again, it is not one that they offer on their website or in their advertising.

Hugh said /// The reason NNA does this is that the more revenue to the organization, the more revenue to the executives and staff in the form of higher salaries, bonuses, commissions, benefits, etc. Note that neither the NNA Staff nor the NNA lover posters addressed the issue of how staff and executives are compensated.

>>>I don’t have any personal knowledge about how much the executives and staff make. Do you Hugh? I doubt it. This sounds like another blubbering statement without any basis in fact. So here is the challenge Hugh, put up or shut up. Tell us the amount in salaries the executives and staff make. Tell us what they made before and after getting into the signing agent business. Again, I doubt you even know. You just made the statement because it sounds sensational. If you had proof of higher salaries, as an example, for the president of NNA you would have stated the before and after.

I would imagine if the had to hire more staff if they increased their business. They must have hired additional staff to provide the benefits they offer on their website. Would you say the alternative is that they don’t staff up so they can offer those benefits?

Hugh said /// The last thing I want to see an alleged service organization to which I pay dues do (dues do? Hmmm...) is focus a lot of time and resources in generating further competition for my business.

Yet Hugh said in another posting /// …I don't ever recall having made one complaint about the volume of business I have. If I have a complaint along those lines, it would not be of insufficient volume, it would be that I am retired and didn't really anticipate working this hard.

>>>Sounds like you are having a problem deciding whether or not you are getting enough business. On one hand you complain about competition and on the other you say you have more business than you can handle. Funny.

Hugh, when did you become a member of NNA? (Your website was obtained 11/2003; however, that is no proof of when you joined NNA.) However, It would seem to me that when they allowed you to join you became someone else’s competition. So what are you saying? Are you saying that you are allowed to be in this business but no one else is? That sounds very selfish to me.

Also, this idea that you are to have no competition is un-American. To try to stop your competition could be illegal if systematic.

Paul said // I don't believe that NNA Lover and NNA Staff are the same. (I could be wrong... nah...)

>>>Paul you are right. I am not a NNA staff member. My only associated is that I joined them just like anyone else who pays.

I will tell you this. I have nothing against ASN. I don’t really know much about them. But, if Sylvia is not representing them in her writings, she ought not to list herself as a certified instructor of ASN when commenting on such matters. It makes it appear as if she does represent and speak for them.

Gracie asked // Can't a non-profit sell things to survive or to expand their services, reach more people, add staff, move to a bigger building, lease a company car, etc? They just can't show a profit at the end of the year? Am I understanding how a non-profit may operate?

Gracie has a pretty good thought process going here. The answer is “yes” a non-profit can do all those things. The only thing that is wrong about what you say is regarding the profit. A non-profit is allowed to make a profit as defined below. If you ever hear of a non-profit being “in the black” it is either because they broke even OR they made a profit. I personally want NNA to be in the black so that they can continue to exist.

Definition of Profit as found at Dictionary.com //
The rate of increase in the net worth of a business enterprise in a given accounting period. The return received on a business undertaking after all operating expenses have been met.

What a non-profit cannot do is distribute those profits to anyone else, for example, stockholders.

Non-profits are not supposed to exclusively benefit the interests of an individual such as Hugh who wants them to serve him only. (Remember he said it was his organization…not theirs.) Non-profits are supposed to serve the public interest, not Hugh’s interest. If they served only Hugh, they would be required to be a for profit organization.

Most membership organizations try to maintain and/or increase their membership database. Most successful organizations try to survive by keeping their revenues up. The proof of whether or not NNA is doing this is in the renewals. If people don’t get a benefit they don’t renew. Yet, again I will point out that NNA is renewing its membership. Hugh, Sylvia and Paul: How do you explain that? How do you that members are renewing if they are not benefiting? We have yet to hear one of these OLD FARTS (who should be retired by now and camping all the time with the grandyungins and/or playing shuffleboard) dispute that NNA is renewing members at a great pace too! This is proof someone is benefiting.

Of course, Hugh, as a retired attorney should have a little better understanding of non-profits than he is showing here. He should also have a little better understanding of why you should make accusations based solely upon your thoughts rather than evidence. But, of course, as a lawyer he has probably done that on many occasions in the courtroom. Think about it. In every legal case someone is arguing the truth and someone is arguing against the truth trying to make others think they have the truth.

From the playbook of any ruthless and aggressive attorney // If you do not have the truth on your side, insult the person who does. Try to make it appear as if they did wrong. Call into suspect anything they do.

Hugh if you want an organization that provides the benefits that you want, simply start one yourself. In fact, why don’t you start an organization, be its president, decide what benefits you will offer or not offer, take no pay and charge no membership fees. You know do all the things that you want NNA to do. A better question is, why haven’t you already done it? The answer is that you either don’t want to or can’t. I think you like criticizing what others do more than doing something yourself. Another possible reason is that your liberal mindset has you believing everyone owes you. You are just like these typical liberal millionaire politicians who believe in a bunch of different causes yet they don’t pay for them out of their own pockets. They want the tax payers to pay for it. If they really believed they would give up all their millions. They want the benefits but want everyone else to pay for them.

I suspect your statement about not wanting NNA to provide you with competition fuels more of what you say than anything else.

Reply by Clay on 7/24/04 10:27am
Msg #4907

Jamie did you write this? nm.

Reply by NNA Lover on 7/25/04 4:29pm
Msg #4941

Re: Jamie did you write this? nm.

I don't know who Jamie is. I am not her. I am also not Dennis, whoever that is.

Reply by HisHughness on 7/25/04 5:52pm
Msg #4944

Re: Jamie did you write this? nm.

NNA Lover pizzled:

I don't know who Jamie is. I am not her. I am also not Dennis, whoever that is.

For which Jamie and Dennis, I'm sure, say, "Whew!"

Reply by HisHughness on 7/25/04 3:58pm
Msg #4938

NNA lover babbled:

Hugh said /// Establish a link from the NNA home page to the NNA signing agent section. (Hugh said there is no link. This is one of his complaints.)

>>>There is a link. There has been a link for as long as I have been a member. You log into the signing agent section.

The point was that there is no link from the NNA home page -- which is where most unknowledgable parties would go to start looking for a notary -- to the signing agent section, not vice versa. I hope you notarize better than you read, Lover.

Lover also gurgled incoherently...aw, heck, it didn't bear saying the first time, much less repeating. Essentially, Lover said:
1) --NNA is not my organization.-- That, as this board has made quite plain, is indeed true. My organization would serve members better.
2) --I don't know what the executives' salaries, bonuses, commissions, benefits, stock options, restroom privileges, etc. are, so I shouldn't question them.-- I'm not really sure how to respond to such mind-boggling sophistry. I guess I can only say that the answer to any inappropriate questions about such matters would obviously be to disclose them, a process that the NNA patently can do since the staff is already posting on this board.
3) --I shouldn't complain about the NNA focusing its energies on generating competition for me because I didn't expect to work this hard.-- Exactly: With a larger pool of potential clients to choose from, and a smaller pool of hungry notaries, I get to be much more selective in the business I do. That's sort of Economics 101 -- but I don't guess that's taught in the 8th grade, so Lover would never have encountered it.
4) --I should start my own non-profit organization if I was think I know so much.-- Admittedly, I haven't done that. However, I >>have<< been senior vice president of a national non-profit organization, and I have been executive director (that means I ran the darned things, Lover) of two non-profits which offered legal, counseling and DNA services. In fact, that's what I retired from.

Lover also barfed:

"...your liberal mindset has you believing everyone owes you. You are just like these typical liberal millionaire politicians who believe in a bunch of different causes yet they don’t pay for them out of their own pockets. They want the tax payers to pay for it. If they really believed they would give up all their millions. They want the benefits but want everyone else to pay for them."

Okay, Dennis, enough is enough. It was a great joke, but now's the time to own up. Drop the pseudomyn, and let's all have a good laugh about how well you impersonate a mindless buffoon, then get down to serious business.

Reply by NNA Lover on 7/25/04 4:28pm
Msg #4940

Hugh Said:///////1) --NNA is not my organization.-- That, as this board has made quite plain, is indeed true. My organization would serve members better.

>> I am a member and am very happy!

Hugh said///// 2) --I don't know what the executives' salaries, bonuses, commissions, benefits, stock options, restroom privileges, etc. are, so I shouldn't question them.-- I'm not really sure how to respond to such mind-boggling sophistry. I guess I can only say that the answer to any inappropriate questions about such matters would obviously be to disclose them, a process that the NNA patently can do since the staff is already posting on this board.

>> You are the one who said that the NNA was lining the pockets of its executives and staff. I didn't think your accusation was based upon any actual knowledge on the subject. You really ought to know what you are talking about prior to making a claim without merit.

Hugh said/////3) --I shouldn't complain about the NNA focusing its energies on generating competition for me because I didn't expect to work this hard.-- Exactly: With a larger pool of potential clients to choose from, and a smaller pool of hungry notaries, I get to be much more selective in the business I do. That's sort of Economics 101 -- but I don't guess that's taught in the 8th grade, so Lover would never have encountered it.

>>> If you are making money I don't know why you are complaining. But, you were complaining; therefore, perhaps you need to take the Economics 101 class again. I am doing very well, thank you.

4) --I should start my own non-profit organization if I was think I know so much.-- Admittedly, I haven't done that. However, I >>have<< been senior vice president of a national non-profit organization, and I have been executive director (that means I ran the darned things, Lover) of two non-profits which offered legal, counseling and DNA services. In fact, that's what I retired from.

>>> That is probably why you don't understand how to be an entrepreneur. You have been an employee. That is probably why you gripe so much about things that we who have been self employed know is common.

Hugh said /// Okay, Dennis, enough is enough. It was a great joke, but now's the time to own up. Drop the pseudomyn, and let's all have a good laugh about how well you impersonate a mindless buffoon, then get down to serious business.

>>> I don't know who Dennis is but I am not he.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/25/04 5:08pm
Msg #4942

Hugh
I can state with certainty that NNA Lover is not Dennis! Dennis would never post anonymously (I can say this after knowing him for 4 years!). He also does not respond to anonymous posts - and I have taken a leaf out of his book.

Dennis is one of the most ethical people I know!

(I don't know where he has disappeared to, but I for one miss him)