Posted by Anonymous on 7/14/04 11:10am
Msg #4381

Quick Question

I'm rather new at this signing stuff and I completed my second signing last night, but I'm not sure I know enough to be doing this--the NNA training certainly didn't prepare me for all that's involved. Anyway, my question is this - on my first signing the Deed of Trust had a space designated for initials on each page and of course the signatures on the last page. The signing I did last night only had a signature area for signing. Should I have had the borrowers initial each page anyway?

Reply by Newbie_CA on 7/14/04 11:21am
Msg #4383

I've encountered some Deeds of Trust with initials and some without. I just have the borrower initial if there's a space if there isn't I don't. So far nothing has come back to me.

I once had a set of docs that didn't require initials for any pages. Every company requires different things.

Hope this helped.

Reply by Anonymous on 7/14/04 11:59am
Msg #4385

Thanks! I feel better.

Reply by CA_Notary on 7/14/04 12:06pm
Msg #4389

Just remember, we're not meant to be mind readers. If they want signatures and/or initials, it should be clearly marked on the documents. If there's no space for them, don't worry about it.

You may have an occasional page that is simply marked "signature", but doesn't clarify whether it's the borrower who is supposed to sign, or whether it's someone else such as the closing agent. Usually you'll be able to tell just by reading the document and using common sense. However, if you still can't tell, I'd suggest having the borrower sign it just to CYA. My logic is that if the borrower shouldn't have signed it, it should be simple enough for the title company to either cross it out and sign it themselves, or simply print out another copy of the page and sign it.

Reply by Anonymous on 7/14/04 12:09pm
Msg #4390

Great advice....thanks

Reply by Christie Costello on 7/14/04 5:24pm
Msg #4410

Which NNA training did you go to...the notary commission training or the signing agent seminar? Just curious.

Reply by Irma on 7/14/04 11:46pm
Msg #4435

After I took the certification course through NNA,I had a question regarding the signature line with the word seal at the end. i wanted to know if that was something that I notarized. They told me that those forms are just an example so, my question wasn't answered.

Reply by derf4me on 7/15/04 1:29am
Msg #4438

When a signature line has (seal) at the end of it, this does NOT mean you need to notarize. Many docs ask for a borrower's signature (seal). A seal is an antiquated term for signature...from when people used to press their personal seal into paper. No worries.

Reply by CA_Notary on 7/15/04 2:10am
Msg #4443

Are you serious? They wouldn't answer a simple question like that?

I swear, the more I read this board, the more I think the NNA are nothing more than just money grubbing idiots. They don't seem to give a damn at all about having actual qualified notaries out in the field. Glad I never joined, and I can't imagine I ever will.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/15/04 7:08am
Msg #4446

A Florida notary was charging $10 per signature. According to her Florida NNA manual she was allowed to charge up to $10 per signature.
I told her that she is only allowed to charge $10 per seal not signature, according to Florida notary laws, so she called the NNA and was still told that it was $10 per signature.. Had I not pointed out the Florida law to her, she could have been fined heavy for overcharging.
The NNA need to know all the States notary laws if they are going to be answering questions on them.
But, they are more interested in making money from loan signing agents, they are not interested in educating the notaries any more.

The ASN is the much better organization. They are first and foremost for the notary education. I am not saying this because I am one of their certified notary instructors. I was a member of the ASN long before they made me an instructor and I was always happy with the organization. They are the oldest non-profit organization for notaries.

Reply by Irma on 7/15/04 9:26pm
Msg #4492

Thats's right and some other stuff that I've gone through with them.

I just sent another question regarding Wisconsin commissioning. I got a quicker response from you guys. Actually, they haven't answered me yet.

Reply by HisHughness on 7/15/04 9:55am
Msg #4452

Irma said:

"After I took the certification course through NNA,I had a question regarding the signature line with the word seal at the end. i wanted to know if that was something that I notarized. They told me that those forms are just an example so, my question wasn't answered."

I'm going to regret exposing my ignorance in this fashion, but so be it.

One of the subsequent posters, addressing this issue, said the "seal" after a signature is simply an antiquated holdover from the time when people pressed their actual seal into wax. Yes and no. The word "seal" is indeed such a remnant of times past when actual seals were used. However, it is not just a quaint holdover. When you sign something under seal, the signature has greater formality and more legal ramifications than simply signing something.

The problem is, I can't tell you what the ramifications of a signature under seal are. When I first started working as a signing agent two years ago, out of curiosity I tried to refresh my hoary law school memories of the significance of a signature under seal. However, none of the lawbooks I have retained in my personal library address the issue, and it simply is not important enough for me to make any greater effort. Unless you're actually drafting a legal instrument, or trying a lawsuit, it should not have any impact on you. In 11 years of practicing law, I don't recall a single instance in which I needed to know the significance of a sealed signature.

Reply by sue on 7/15/04 10:56am
Msg #4455

my brain is foggy as it has been diluted with so many facts over the years but I believe in PA 'Seal' extends a contract to 21 years rather than the 'normal' statutory term