Posted by mike/ca on 7/27/04 12:56pm
Msg #5053

signing at the table

found this interesting after reading the post the other day.

Dear Mr. Mc Henry,



Thank you for your inquiry. A proper notarization must be fully completed at one time and place in the notary's presence (Model Notary Act, Comments on Section 5-5, Subsection [c]). Therefore not executing the notarial act in the presence of the signers could result revocation, suspension, or refusal to grant a Notary's commission. In addition, a fine up to $750 may be imposed (Government Code, Section 8214.1 and 8214.5).

For more information or clarification you may contact our Information Services Department at 818/739-4011.





We look forward to serving all your Notary needs.

Reply by HisHughness on 7/27/04 1:23pm
Msg #5055

What state are you in, Mike?

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/27/04 1:33pm
Msg #5056

Betcha dollars to doughnuts he is in California

(He did use the ID mike/ca)

Reply by mike mchenry on 7/27/04 2:01pm
Msg #5060

calif

Reply by HisHughness on 7/27/04 2:04pm
Msg #5061

Don't ever let anyone try to tell you that logic, justice and the law share the same attributes. They don't, and because they don't, I'm going to have to eat some crow, for fear that I have misled anyone into a grave error.

A while back, I said that in my opinion, logic dictates that you should be able to complete a notarial certificate at any time after you have witnessed the signature or the acknowledgement. That may or may not be the case in Texas; the likelihood that it is not is pretty strong. However, as I've said before, Texas is a no man's land where notarial law is concerned. There is no statute, and apparently no case law, in Texas that sets forth that requirement. A check with the SOS did not result in a firm answer, just what amounted to a strong suggestion that a certificate should not be "altered" after the notarization ceremony.

Consequently, I would suggest that everybody make darned sure before they leave the table that they have completed the entire notarial certificate: Signature, seal, date, parties, expiration date of notary certification, etc.

And also I would suggest that everybody should stay away from PAW for the next couple of days. That all-knowing smug smile is gonna be a killer.

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 7/27/04 2:24pm
Msg #5066

As HisHughness babbled: "I would suggest that everybody should stay away from PAW for the next couple of days. That all-knowing smug smile is gonna be a killer."

LOL! <BSEG>

Reply by Jon on 7/27/04 2:18pm
Msg #5064

I would be interested in where you got the answer from. I can't imagine the CA SOS using the NNA Model Notary Act as a basis for giving you an answer. My guess is that you posed your question to the NNA, thus making your answer less than definitive. Another case of the NNA citing their opinion as law.

Reply by Perette_CA on 7/27/04 6:08pm
Msg #5090

Hmmmm, interesting. I attended a loan signing class and was told that it was OK to first get the borrower's ID, signature and thumb print in the journal, then have them sign/initial the docs (but double check docs before leaving) and then could leave to notarize the docs and fill in the rest of the journal at home. This way would insured that docs needing to be notarized were not missed. OK, what are your thoughts???

Reply by Stephanie/CA on 7/27/04 6:12pm
Msg #5091

What organization/company taught the loan signing class that you attended?

Reply by Jon on 7/27/04 6:43pm
Msg #5093

First, let me say that I complete all notarizations at the table and would recommend that every one else do so also. It leaves less room for error and lets you relax when you get home instead of "going back to work". With that said, Ca does not have any requirement that the notarization needs to be done at the table, only, and I quote: "The certificate of acknowledgment must be completely filled out at the time the notary's signature and seal are affixed." There is no direction given for a jurat. I don't think that waiting until you get home insures that you won't miss any notarizations, on the contrary I think that it will increase your chances of missing something. After you get home from a day of 5 or 6 signings you will be tired and having to go through 6 packages to notarize everything is going to be the last thing you want to do.

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 7/28/04 1:02pm
Msg #5127

Well said Jon.
I completely agree with you.

Reply by CA_Notary on 7/28/04 4:12am
Msg #5110

I don't understand the need for this to begin with. If I weren't filling in the notarization portions of the docs during the signing, I'd just be sitting and staring at the wall while the borrowers were signing the docs. Why would anyone wait until later to do this?

Reply by LorraineK/FL on 7/27/04 9:46pm
Msg #5101

I was under the impression that the Model Act was developed by the feds as a guideline for states and that a state could choose to enact their own legislation that adopted its language...or expand or change as the individual state desires. I had assumed this to be correct because different states can have different notary laws. If it was all defined by the model, then they'd all be the same...right?

Reply by Jon on 7/28/04 12:32am
Msg #5108

Model Notary Act

If you look above at NNA Staff rambling about the FL law primer you will see that it was the NNA all the way. You have been taken by the NNA propoganda machine that tries to make everything they do look like it has been sanctioned by some state or federal agency.