Posted by ceci on 7/21/04 12:29pm
Msg #4738

signing registry training guide & exam

Has anyone purchased the Signing Registry Training Guide and taken the exam? If so, what is your feedback? Also, what do you think of NNA's Notary Signing Agent Certification Course? I noticed that NNA price is a bit higher than Signing Registry. Your feedback is much appreciated. Thank you!

Reply by lorraine2 on 7/21/04 5:45pm
Msg #4767

Ive taken the NNA course, attended a seminar and passed the certificiation test. My opinion is that whatever you invest in yourself can only help. Not everyone on the boards gives NNA the highest marks...the jury is still out as far as I am concerned. I have gotten several jobs from being on their website, so that's good. If you are inexperienced, the certification is about all you've got until you've built on that experience base. Whether SR is better recognized or not ... I don't know. While I enjoyed the NNA seminar...I feel the course (book) was more informative...the seminar had too much to cover in too little time and the book gives you something to refer back to if needed. NOTHING in my opinion can replace experience. I've learned more from reading the boards than anything, but info on message boards can be subjective and state specific. In a number of instances, I've read something on the board, and hit the NNA training manual, my state's Governor's Notary Manual, or the Florida Statutes to see what it had to say. Again...there are differences in opinion as to the accuracy of NNA's info. My state's Notary Website recognizes both NNA and American Society of Notaries as authorities in the industry. You may want to check out ASN to see if they have a certification exam.

The NNA's test is lengthy, but is in an open book exam in a multiple choice format - so, if you have the training book...you wont have any problem passing. I finished the test in one sitting, but from what I understand it is done in segments, so you can come back to it if need be. Hope this helps.

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 7/21/04 7:36pm
Msg #4777

Just to be accurate, the State of Florida does not recognize the NNA nor the ASN as notary authorities. They do reference them as internet sites that may be beneficial.

As far as I know, no state recognizes any organization as an authority on notary matters other than their own notary divisions.

Reply by LorraineK/FL on 7/21/04 7:47pm
Msg #4780

Just to be accurate, Paul is correct they are referenced...not endorsed. I seem to have been a bit too liberal in my recognition. lk

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/21/04 7:39pm
Msg #4778


"The chief goal of the NNA is to provide information on notarial laws, customs, and practices, and to support the nation's 4.5 million notaries with a wide variety of instructional programs, professional services, and advocacy efforts."

Unfortunately this is no longer true of the NNA. The chief goal is to recruit signing agents and make more money! They used to be an advocate for the notary public. Unfotunately they lost sight of their mission when they entered the signing agent business.


"The American Society of Notaries (ASN) is the oldest non-profit educational organization for notaries in the United States. Its primary aims are to educate notaries, to protect the office of notary public in America, and to inspire a high ethical code of conduct in our nation's notaries. ASN is now based in Tallahassee after moving to the Sunshine State in 1994 from Washington, DC. The Society publishes a bi-monthly newsletter, The American Notary, and notary manuals for various states, including Florida. ASN is also dedicated to the historic preservation of the contribution of notaries to America and has an extensive collection of notarial memorabilia, antique documents, seals, and artifacts."

This is still true of the ASN. They do not have a certification exam for signing agents, and there are no plans for one (as far as I know) . The ASN's main focus is on education for NOTARIES, and they have an online course, and a live class in Tallahassee.


Sylvia M Mease
Certified Notary Instructor - ASN

Reply by ceci on 7/21/04 8:36pm
Msg #4785

Thank you all for your responses. Much appreciated. I wish you all success!

Reply by LorraineK/FL on 7/21/04 8:54pm
Msg #4786

Ceci...where are you from?

Reply by Ceci on 7/22/04 7:18pm
Msg #4830

From California and just getting started.

Reply by NNA Staff on 7/22/04 6:12pm
Msg #4822

This is in direct response to the posting by Sylvia Mease.

In no way has the NNA strayed from our "chief goal." You say our "chief goal is to recruit signing agents and make more money." The NNA is a professional Notary organization committed to educating and supporting Notaries throughout the United States. We also act as advocates for Notaries to improve notarial standards and laws. We also support the professional development of NSA's by providing education and support. That is our "chief goal."

Your attack appears partisan. There are other organizations that offer so-called certification exams. Attacking the NNA as the responsible one is unfounded.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/22/04 6:58pm
Msg #4828

However, since the NNA took over NASA the standard of signing agents has dropped considerably. Areas are getting oversaturated. We have new signing agents coming from NNA seminars and asking basic notary questions, like What is a jurat? How will we know if a notary certificate is needed? They should know all this before becoming signing agents. And then, the NNA published their "fee guidelines" and now we have companies calling us that used to pay more that say they are now paying in accordance with the NNA guidelines.

On the NNA website, one could look for a notary public. Now the general public cannot find notaries public at the NNA site, as the only listings of notaries are signing agents at the signngagent.com site. Luckily there are sites like 123notary.com, gomobilenotary.com and the ASN sites where the general public can look for regular notaries.

In the NNA Florida law primer, it is indicated that a notary may charge $10 per signature, however according to Fl law - and the SOS office - we can only charge $10 per seal, yet notaries are following the NNA primer and advertising $10 per signature.
A call to the NNA by one notary garnered the information that the NNA Florida primer was correct, and we can charge $10 per signature. I wish that was true!


While it is true that there are other organizations offering certification exams, you have to agree that the NNA is the most widely known one.

When they passed the law in GA making it an attorney only state, why was the NNA there smiling as the law was being signed? This hurt a lot of GA signing agents. (some of whom live near the Florida border and taken a commission in Florida so they can carry on doing loan signings.

Also, why was the owner of a signing company (and his wife) allowed to be listed in the signing agent database in states they were not commissioned in - this was a disservice to the other signing agents in those states who were listed below these signing agents? The company database is the database for companies to be listed in, not the signing agent database.

Reply by NNA Staff on 7/22/04 7:08pm
Msg #4829

This is a baseless ASN attack.

For example, the NNA fought against the attorney-only structure in Georgia, by filing a legal brief with the Georgia court. Unfortunately, the court ruled the other way. What you are referring to is the witnessing of Mitt Romney signing the MA Executive Order.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/22/04 7:28pm
Msg #4831

This is not an ASN attack - I do not speak for the ASN, and do not pretend to ever speak for them.

I believe I was in error on the GA - and it was the MA Executive order making MA an attorney only state (the Executive order may have been broader than that - but, unfortunately, from reading the message boards, it appears that the signing agents in MA were very unhappy with the NNA regarding the photo of the NNA witnessing the signing of an order that put their livelihoods in jeopardy.

I used to be a member of the NNA - and only refused to renew my membership this last time. They, unfortunately, have nothing to offer me.

Unfortunately you did not address the question of the NNA Florida primer indicating we can charge $10 per signature, or the signing companies listing in the signng agent database.

But, please, do not describe this as an ASN attack, it is not. It is my personal feelings. As I said, I do not speak for the ASN. I do teach a class for them and that is my only involvement with them - apart from being a member - but I joined both the ASN and the NNA at the same time, long before I started teaching an ASN class, and I dropped out of the NNA before I started teaching the ASN class - so one has nothing to do with the other.

Reply by NNA Staff on 7/23/04 12:13pm
Msg #4873

We very much appreciate all of your comments and feedback. We will carefully examine all members suggestions as is our custom.

Sincerely,
NNA Staff

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/23/04 4:52pm
Msg #4881

NNA Staff wrote:

"We very much appreciate all of your comments and feedback. We will carefully examine all members suggestions as is our custom"

That is good to know that you do examine all members suggestions. Is it possible when you do that you could let that member have some kind of a response that you are looking into the suggestion, and a follow up with the results? Communication is a great tool

Reply by Jon on 7/23/04 5:32pm
Msg #4882

The NNA is about making money for themselves, period!! They have no lawyer on staff, nor do they consult one before making decisions regarding notarial questions. They routinely give out incorrect information, and insist that it is correct. I noticed that you have not addressed Sylvia/FL question about the wrong information in the FL law primer. A couple of days ago I received a flier for the notary exam seminar in CA. It states and I quote "California Notaries are now to fulfill a new mandatory 6-hour training requirement, effective with all NEW and RENEWING Notary comissions that begin January 1, 2005, and beyond. Thiss NNA program will satisfy that requirement." This is a blatant lie!! The CA SOS has not yet released the guidelines for the class, so there is no way to determine whether or not their program will meet the guidelines. Furthermore, even if their class does meet the guidelines, if someone takes the class before the guidelines are out, they will have to take the course over as stated to me by the CA SOS. When I called the NNA and asked about this they told me yes it does meet the guidelines. When I asked how can you meet the guidelines when the guidelines are not out yet, she said "Oh, well we are pretty sure we will meet the guidelines." The NNA lies to get our money and backpedals if we know what we're talking about. The NNA is a joke and I will not renew with such a unethical company. I'm stopping now because I'm getting nasueated just thinking about the NNA!!!

Reply by NNA Staff on 7/26/04 10:52am
Msg #4968

Addressing some of the issues raised on this board:

The NNA employs and consult with attorneys and others with legal expertise. The development of several of our published works involved many lawyers, law school professors, secretaries of state, Notary Public administrators, state general chief and deputy counsels, and others. The Executive Director of the NNA is an attorney.

The Florida fee issue is, we admit, not as clear as it could be in our Florida Notary Law Primer. However, it is not incorrect. Florida law States that the Notary fee “may not exceed $10 for any one notarial act.” Our Primer indicates that the allowable fee is $10 per signature. Generally each signature constitutes a separate notarial act and requires separate identification of the signer and seal of the Notary. I a situation where two people – a husband and wife – sign one document, both individuals must appear before the Notary, and the Notary must identify each person separately, resulting in two notarial acts. When one person signs multiple documents, each requires a separate seal and signature of the Notary; again, these are separate notarial acts. Rather than a simple “per signature” statement, our Primer should – and will – state the fee is per notarial act.

Our California seminar advertising states that our program “will satisfy” the state’s new education requirement. This is not a lie. We guarantee this. Our Notary education programs set the standard throughout the nation. We have no doubt whatsoever that this program, as it currently exists, will be approved by the secretary of state’s office. We are prepared to submit our program as soon as procedures and guidelines are announced by the secretary of state.

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 7/26/04 11:42am
Msg #4971

The NNA staff, so eloquently stated:

"The Florida fee issue is, we admit, not as clear as it could be in our Florida Notary Law Primer. However, it is not incorrect. Florida law States that the Notary fee “may not exceed $10 for any one notarial act.” Our Primer indicates that the allowable fee is $10 per signature. Generally each signature constitutes a separate notarial act and requires separate identification of the signer and seal of the Notary. I a situation where two people – a husband and wife – sign one document, both individuals must appear before the Notary, and the Notary must identify each person separately, resulting in two notarial acts. When one person signs multiple documents, each requires a separate seal and signature of the Notary; again, these are separate notarial acts. Rather than a simple “per signature” statement, our Primer should – and will – state the fee is per notarial act. "

I am in disagreement with your statement. When two people sign the same document, there is usually only ONE certificate, thus only ONE notarial act, thus only $10 charged. You suggest that a certificate is required for each signer, which is hardly ever the case (certainly not "generally"). It really doesn't make any difference if there are a hundred signers, if only ONE certificate is used, identifying all 100 signers, that is only ONE notarial act. It's the application of the stamp (seal) and signature that makes it an act, regardless of the number of people identified.

Reply by derf4me on 7/26/04 11:18pm
Msg #5017

But what about the issue of performing oaths? Aren't oaths separate notarial acts? Not really trying to jump into the "fray"...just curious.

:-)

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 7/26/04 11:31pm
Msg #5023

The act includes everything necessary to do what needs to be done and is culminated by the completion of the proper certificate. You can swear in 100 people and use only one jurat, which, in my opinion, would only be one act, as you only applied your seal once.

Reply by sue on 7/23/04 8:16pm
Msg #4887

I might as well jump into this

my suggestion is that when your organization offers education courses mandated by the individual states that you adhere to the state's rules & regulations. Such as, when a 3 hour course is required, don't hand out the certificates of completion as they walk in the door and have the seminar only last 1 hour. If the problem is your staff doesn't know enough about that individual state's laws to fill the 3 hours, then perhaps they shouldn't be offering the course.

Reply by CA_Notary on 7/23/04 2:34am
Msg #4854

The fact that you replied to only ONE of the several comments that Syliva made speaks volumes about your organization. As does the fact that you immediately blame it on an attack by a competing organization. Typical political type answer - say nothing of substance and try to lead the conversation in another direction.

I am left to assume that all of the others must be true since you didn't refute them. I've read enough horror stories about the NNA from other signing agents to know that I'll never give you a dime of my money.

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 7/22/04 8:19pm
Msg #4838

This is most assuredly >>not<< a partisan attack; I belong to no other professional notary organization except NNA. I have had two contacts with "my" organization. One was to pose a question that patently was within the scope of my notarial duties. NNA punted, contending that it was not. The second contact was to suggest that NNA do what any beginning web head would do: Establish a link from the NNA home page to the NNA signing agent section. Why don't you take a look at your home page, Staff, and see if that simple but fundamental step to help your members market their services has been accomplished? The suggestion was made weeks ago. If you are having difficulty putting it into action, I feel certain the NNA members on this board can find you a techie who could get it done in something like 15 minutes. Hell, I don't even know how to spell kumpooters and I could do it in 30.

I'm sorry; I erred when I said I had had only two contacts with NNA. There was a third, in which I asked why responses to your certification exam are not provided to the examinees who do not pass (not me, guys; I was trying to get someone else through), so that they could home in on where they needed to bone up. The answer essentially was that then you couldn't sell your materials.

In the year and a half I've been in NNA, I think I may have gotten three hits on my web site from your NNA listing. This from an organization that won't even take the simplest step in sending traffic to the signing agent site. That's hardly service. So what other role is left for NNA to play? As a former non-profit executive myself, I think I know: it's a vehicle to fund the executive director's second home on the bay.

Is NNA operated like a cash cow for the executives and staff? You don't even have to listen carefully to hear the moos as the register rings.

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 7/22/04 9:23pm
Msg #4842

This is in direct response to the NNA's flagrant advertising to line their own pockets.

The NNA has become a snake oil sales organization ever since it took over NASA. Just look at the latest round of hype the NNA boasts. (This is taken from their latest ads on Monster.com.)

"A HOME-BASED BUSINESS. NO SALES. IN HIGH DEMAND."
What's in "high demand". The market is sliding downhill, demand is decreasing and the NNA has flooded the market with half-baked, untrained "certified" notary signing agents that can't tell the difference between a notary certificate and a witness statement.

"A still-booming real estate and refinance market has led top lenders, escrow companies, title companies and signing services to actively seek independent Notary Signing Agents to handle loan document signings. These firms are determined to hire Notary Signing Agents trained by the National Notary Association."

From what I've been hearing from title companies, lenders and other NSA's, they are looking for experience notaries and finding them through other avenues, such as Notary Rotary, 123notary and SA references. I have been personally told by one company, that they will not look for another signing agent from the ranks of the NNA agent list. It has cost them too much money to send a second agent out to fix the errors from the NNA "trained" agent who could not even follow the statutes as outlined in their state manual.

"The NNA will educate you through a straightforward program taught by loan signing experts. Not a Notary? No problem. Our program gives you the training and knowledge you need to begin this exciting new full- or part-time career."

The NNA misinforms and does a disservice to the notary profession. The information provided at the "training" seminars is often flawed and may even cost a notary her commission. (Overcharging is a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s.775.082, s.775.083 or s.775.084 of the Florida statutes.)

"What You'll Do:

 Agencies contact you with a loan assignment.
 You receive the loan package via overnight mail.
 Meet with the borrowers to obtain and notarize their signatures. Usually, about an hour of your time.
 Return the loan package to the agency.
 Collect your fee. $50.$60.up to $125 per signing."

Overnight mail? Sometimes, but lately, more and more are using edocs. Therefore there is a hidden cost to this business that the NNA seems to conveniently leave out. They only emphasize the "Collect your fee" like it's going to be cash on the barrel-head when your finished your hour.

"The National Notary Association (NNA) has devoted nearly half a century to creating opportunities for hundreds of thousands of Notaries across the country. Become a Notary Signing Agent and you will increase your earnings, broaden your background and add a new skill for life!"

When I started this process, there were only 48 signing agents in a 50 mile radius (from what I could determine at the time). Today, there is darn near 300. Why? The proliferation of the NNA hype of big bucks and easy money that anyone can do. It is apparent that "professionalism be damned" is fast become the bywords of the NNA, especially in regard to the process of being responsible for a family's most important investment and possibly their entire life savings.

There are way too many NSA's. Way too many "certified" NSA's that haven't a clue of what they're doing and the ramifications of their actions. And those poor soles who just want to be good notaries haven't a prayer of assistance from the NNA since their entire focus seems to be on the NSA and the ability to rake in the cash for those seminars, overpriced "certification" examination, supplies, and having to join TWO organization for almost $90 a year. For what? I never received on call from a lender, title company or SS saying they found me on the NNA agent list. I invested my money elsewhere with a much better ROI. (That's Return On Investment, in case you didn't know.)

Providing education and support may be your "chief goal", but the NNA certainly has not set it's sights on achieving that goal. I find very little comfort in knowing the a colleague has asked for assistance from the NNA and has been given bad advice, right down to telling them it's okay to do something that is absolutely wrong and illegal.

Get your head out of the sand. Look at what is going on from our side of the fence. You won't like what you see or hear, but if you heed the message, maybe there is salvation for the NNA in the future.

Good luck.

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/22/04 9:59pm
Msg #4846

Sylvia, Paul & Hugh, I bow down to you and...

I am glad I did not waste my money on the NNA! By the way, I just ordered my MoJo and I can't wait to get it!

Reply by Sonya, MD on 8/13/04 2:09pm
Msg #6029

Re: Sylvia, Paul & Hugh, I bow down to you and...

What is a MoJp?

Reply by CA_Notary on 8/13/04 3:50pm
Msg #6033

Re: Sylvia, Paul & Hugh, I bow down to you and...

use the search feature on the board to find out

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/22/04 10:06pm
Msg #4847


 Meet with the borrowers to obtain and notarize their signatures. Usually, about an hour of your time.


How many times have we seen where signings took well over an hour - sometimes over two - because the borrower had questions at the signing table that the signing agent was not qualified to answer (why is this fee so high? That isn't the interest rate I am supposed to have" This isn't supposed to be an ARM" etc), and the borrower will not sign until he/she has spoken to their loan officer - so they call the LO, who then proceeds to try and sell them on the terms there are then - or they are "away from their desk leave a message and we will return your call promptly" - so borrower leaves message and waits and waits, and absolutely refuses to sign until they have spoken to their LO, and they are sure the LO will call them right back. They know they have a 3 day RTC, but "it is easier not to sign, than to cancel it later" - and you know if you leave without the borrower signing, the signing service will not pay, or will only pay a trip fee.


And then, as you say, a lot of companies are now going to "edocs" - so now you have the added time of waiting around for edocs, for a signing that is supposed to happen at 6 pm, an hour away, and here it is 5pm, and still no edocs!

Reply by RoadRunner on 7/23/04 6:56am
Msg #4856

You are so right "see-foo" (master Sylvia in Chinese). From my real estate days 'til now, I swear I've seen signers' eye balls pop out like goldfishs' when they saw the interest rate in the TIL box. Yes, the TIL comes right after the HUD and 1003. If anyone (newbies) don't know their craft then they might be in for a long haul. I've made a 3x5 card with xyz formula where I plug in the numbers to show the borrower how that rate is derived.

When I first start out, I was so hype about the certifications & memberships offered by many other sites that I almost rake my credit card. Thank goodness (Harry & all ), I came to this board just in time before spending a dime.

Reply by Charles N. Faerber - NNA on 7/27/04 4:06pm
Msg #5079

Response to MA/GA initiatives

Recent messages posted on this board have been brought to my attention. I would like to provide some clarification on the role that the NNA plays in its advocacy work for Notaries.

Last December in Massachusetts, Governor Romney decided to adopt much of the NNA’s progressive Model Notary Act (MNA) by executive order — an historical event for two reasons. First, no governor in American history had ever done such a thing. Second, Massachusetts Notaries at long last had official rules to guide them; before, there were none.

Through the MNA’s embrace of Signing Agents was pared from the Governor’s order over the objection of the Association, we felt that, for the Notaries and the general public of Massachusetts as a whole, the executive order was such an extraordinary and positive step forward that it had to be recognized. That’s why the NNA’s president and executive vice president attended the signing ceremony.

Nonetheless, we continued to strenuously argue for full acceptance of Signing Agents in the state and that was clearly one reason why the Governor’s order was revised, effective may 15, to allow Signing Agents to operate in Massachusetts if they are employed by attorneys or lenders. This is still not enough and the NNA continues to work in every way practical for complete acceptance of Notary Signing Agents in Massachusetts, as well as in other states where there are current restrictions on their activity.

Another example of our activism on behalf of Signing Agents occurred last fall in Georgia, when the state Supreme Court announced its intention to rule on a Georgia Bar opinion that only attorneys can conduct closings in the state. The NNA submitted an amicus curiae brief to the Court and had an attorney on hand to argue on behalf of Signing Agents. Though the high court then ruled on the side of the Bar, a strong case was made for Signing Agents and legislation may be forthcoming to carve out a legal niche for Georgia Signing Agents.

Similar NNA activism was instrumental recently in Nevada in producing legislation that effectively legalizes the activities of Signing Agents in that state. A full list of the NNA’s other efforts and initiatives on behalf of Signing Agents around the nation is too long for chronicling here.

I hope this clarifies certain matters that had been distorted in this forum.

Charles N. Faerber
Vice President, Notary Affairs
National Notary Association

Reply by NNA Lover on 7/23/04 7:20am
Msg #4857

NNA is right! The renewals don't lie!

The NNA is right! Sylvia and Hugh and others who have targeted the NNA are wrong as far as it applies to others.

Hugh/ instead of trying to tell the NNA how to run their organization, why don't you spend this time improving yours. If you are not getting enough business I bet it is more about what you are (or are not doing) rather than what NNA is doing. Spend your time marketing instead of spending so much time on this message board posting and complaining about this or that.

Sylvia, you ought not list yourself as an ASN instructor in your postings if you want to make sure that you do not make others think you speak for the ASN. I can only imagine the reason you listed yourself as a Certified ASN instructor is that you wanted others to think you were an authority on the subject matter.

There are a lot of us newbies who are making money. The NNA has grown tremendously. They have been in charge of the notary section for more than a year. That is more than enough time for those who subscribed for a year to get out if they are not making money. However, we see that they are growing! Why are these people renewing if the NNA has scammed them? Just because a few of you have quit doesn't mean that everyone is not making money. If NNA was so bad people would not be renewing. I for one have renewed because I have made money!

Reply by HisHughness on 7/23/04 7:57am
Msg #4858

Re: NNA is right! The renewals don't lie!

NNA lover ignorantly pontificated:

"Hugh/ instead of trying to tell the NNA how to run their organization, why don't you spend this time improving yours. If you are not getting enough business I bet it is more about what you are (or are not doing) rather than what NNA is doing. Spend your time marketing instead of spending so much time on this message board posting and complaining about this or that."

First, the NNA is a non-profit organization supposedly created for and operated for the benefit of the members, not the executives and staff. It is MY organization, not theirs, which is a point made repeatedly in the prior discussion.

Second, I don't ever recall having made one complaint about the volume of business I have. If I have a complaint along those lines, it would not be of insufficient volume, it would be that I am retired and didn't really anticipate working this hard. But you miss the whole point of this discussion, and in the process very graphically made the point that PAW et al. have been making: The NNA has indeed grown, that by focusing on lining the pockets of its executives and staff instead of focusing on the needs of its members.

Third, I also don't remember spending much time on this board complaining about anything...well, I have occasionally complained about arrogant whippersnappers who would be better served by paying more attention to their potty training, rather than being disrespectful to their betters.

Reply by HisHughness on 7/23/04 8:02am
Msg #4860

Re: NNA is right! The renewals don't lie!

Sorry, NNA lover. I failed to cover something in my earlier posting.

I note that you cower under the guise of anonymity in posting your remarks. Is that because you are ashamed of your identity, you're ashamed of your remarks, or you are ashamed of the NNA -- or all three?

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/23/04 8:15am
Msg #4861

Re: NNA is right! The renewals don't lie!

Hugh - you missed one out for the reason for the anonymity - is NNA lover the NNA Staff member???

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/23/04 8:15am
Msg #4862

Re: NNA is right! The renewals don't lie!

Hugh - you missed one out for the reason for the anonymity - is NNA lover the NNA Staff member???

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 7/23/04 9:17am
Msg #4865

Re: NNA is right! The renewals don't lie!

I don't believe that NNA Lover and NNA Staff are the same. (I could be wrong... nah... )

"NNA Staff" IP address points back to the NNA (nationalnotary.org) whereas the "NNA Lover" IP address points to "everyone's internet" (www.ev1.net).

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/23/04 10:01am
Msg #4868

Everyones Internet??

Is that a proxy? I have never heard of it.

It is suspicious when people post anonymously. I should take a leaf out of Dennis' book and ignore anonymous posts.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/23/04 8:42am
Msg #4863

Non-Profit

His esteemed Hughness stated:


"First, the NNA is a non-profit organization supposedly created for and operated for the benefit of the members, not the executives and staff. It is MY organization, not theirs, which is a point made repeatedly in the prior discussion."


NNA is TWO separate corporations. Corp. #1 is a for profit that sells products like bond insurance, E&O Insurance, etc. Corp #1 then funnels money to Corp #2 which is the non-profit side. And they do not readily distinguish between the two. It is perfectly legal under CA law. It is very difficult to survive on memberships alone.

(This is easily verifiable with the CA division of corporations)

Reply by Gracie on 7/23/04 10:38am
Msg #4870

Re: Non-Profit

Can't a non-profit sell things to survive or to expand their services, reach more people, add staff, move to a bigger building, lease a company car, etc? They just can't show a profit at the end of the year? Am I understanding how a non-profit may operate?

Reply by HisHughness on 7/23/04 11:02am
Msg #4871

Re: Non-Profit

Gracie inquired:

"Can't a non-profit sell things to survive or to expand their services, reach more people, add staff, move to a bigger building, lease a company car, etc? They just can't show a profit at the end of the year? Am I understanding how a non-profit may operate?"

A non-profit can do all those things, including operating a business. The business, however, must be directly related to the mission of the non-profit; otherwise, the revenues are taxable.

The problem with NNA, as repeatedly emphasized here, is that it concentrates on functions that will increase revenue to the organization -- selling seminars, certifications, memberships, etc. -- rather than those functions that will provide service to existing members. I don't much care whether NNA has a thousand or 10,000 members -- what I care about is whether it adequately serves one member -- me. The last thing I want to see an alleged service organization to which I pay dues do (dues do? Hmmm...) is focus a lot of time and resources in generating further competition for my business.

The reason NNA does this is that the more revenue to the organization, the more revenue to the executives and staff in the form of higher salaries, bonuses, commissions, benefits, etc. Note that neither the NNA Staff nor the NNA lover posters addressed the issue of how staff and executives are compensated.

Everybody have a fabulous weekend. We're taking the grandyoung'uns camping.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/23/04 11:06am
Msg #4872

Re: Non-Profit

Hugh may be the best person to ask on this. But, I do believe a non-profit can sell things.

But here we are talking about a profitable and a non-profit corporation. One is making money, the other isn't supposed to. Nothng wrong with that at all. I was just pointing out that the NNA is two separate corporations - and nothing wrong with that at all, and I cerainly did not mean to imply otherwise.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/23/04 8:01am
Msg #4859

Re: NNA is right! The renewals don't lie!

Yes, I agree that members of the signingagent.com listing are making money. That is not in dispute. It is well worth it, especially for newbies, to be listed with signingagent.com. Some companies do look there for signing agents. My signing company looks there as a last resort.
When it was NASA I used to get a lot of calls from title companies as well as signing companies. When the NNA bought them out, in the beginning I would still get calls. Then they started trickling down where only the $50 signing companies would call me. And after the "suggested fees" were published, some companies would offer those fees, as it was the "standard" Then I started getting calls from my listing on 123notary.com - I had been listed there for a couple of years and had only got calls for regular notary work or weddings, never for loan signings, but all of a sudden I was getting calls from more title companies and better paying signing companies. I was told by a scheduler that they had stopped using the NNA listing because some of the signing agents listed were still waiting for their notary commission, and they were also having too many "re-signs" because of mistakes made by the signing agent they originally sent out from the NNA listing. (I think Paul in his post has said something similar) Also sometimes they would call and find out that the signing agent listed was a signing service, and they did not want a signing service.

So, for a lot of signing agents, the NNA is worth being a member of. I had stayed a member as I liked their journals. But now the MoJo is available, I get my journals from Harry. So, for me, the NNA has nothing to offer. If they still had the regular NNA section of notary listings etc, where the general public could find a notary, I may consider rejoining. But the signing agent section has nothing to offer for me.



I don't often list that I am an ASN instructor, but as I was posting that as far as I know the ASN has no plans to have signing agent certification classes, I mentioned it in my post, I have asked about signng agent certification classes and have been told that they have no plans to get into the signng agent business, they are concentrating on notaries overall.

My posts are my personal opinions only!