Posted by HisCuriousHughness on 6/17/04 10:34pm
Msg #3161

Administering oath

How many of you actually administer an oath? And, if you do, what form do you use?

Reply by redonthehead on 6/17/04 10:39pm
Msg #3162

I'm a CA notary and I always administer an oath when using a jurat: "Do you solemnly swear that the statements in this document are true to the best of your knowledge and belief, so help you God". Only one time did I have to affirm someone, excluding, the "so help you God".

Reply by You bet on 6/17/04 10:52pm
Msg #3163

Re: Administering oath - ALWAYS

I use my state's non-religious wording. I think it bigotted for me to assume their religious beliefs. I give one oath for all affidavits in the loan document package. I tell the borrowers that I promise to indicate which documents are affidavits. I tell them that if the statements are not true, they must NOT sign.

We all raise our right hands during the "swearing in."

When a loan officer happens to attend the signing, they have ALL said that they have never seen an oath administered. Naughty notaries!

Wording for my state:
"Do you swear or affirm that the statements in the affidavit documents are true to your best belief and knowledge?"

Reply by HisAccedingHughness on 6/17/04 11:23pm
Msg #3164

Re: Administering oath - ALWAYS

I have had similar experiences when I have closed for attorneys, who encounter notarization of all forms of documents. They express surprise that I actually swear them in.

I am envious of the states which are so explicit in their statutory requirements of notaries. In Texas, if you can respirate and have done so for 18 years, you can be a notary. Furthermore, the laws governing our endeavors are often somewhat vague, or matters simply are not addressed. One such void, as far as I have been able to ascertain, is the oath to be administered.

The oath I use is of my own devising.

"Do you solemnly swear or affirm, upon pain of perjury, that you are _____________________________, and that the allegations contained in any affidavits executed during this proceeding are true and correct to the best of your knowledge and belief?"

I'd like comments from any other notaries, particularly Texas notaries, as to the sufficiency and/or appropriateness of this wording. I'm especially concerned about the efficacy of having them swear to their identity. As far as I can tell, the law doesn't require that they do so, but it seems inherent in the process of using a notary to establish identity and authentication of document execution that it's a reasonable oath.

Any thoughts?

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 6/18/04 5:49am
Msg #3166

What Purpose Does the Word "Allegations" Serve?

To me that word conjures up a negative connotation that would appear to be somewhat out of place. I've never considered the wording in any loan document affidavit to be accusatory in nature. "Pain of perjury" is a unique phrase. I like that!

BTW, I also administer oaths in the manner prescribed by our state (Missouri) & have yet to find ANYONE who's ever had it done before. We're not required to have specific wording & to have the affiant swear/affirm to their identity would seem to me to be an acceptable & perhaps even desirable practice.

JMHO & my comments should not be construed as giving advice to anyone in any other state as to how they should administer their oaths/affirmations.

Reply by EP - Virginia on 6/18/04 7:54am
Msg #3169

Re: What Purpose Does the Word "Allegations" Serve?

Do you administer an oath for each and every document that you notarize?

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 6/18/04 8:11am
Msg #3170

Excellent Question!

And the answer is an emphatic "YES"! There are some who place the affiants under oath at the beginning of the signing appt & feel that is sufficient. I don't & for the reason that the affiants don't have a clue as to what they're swearing (or affirming) to at the onset. My way of thinking on this issue is that each affidavit is different & unique, thus a new oath needs to be administered for each separate one. 10 affidavits = 10 oaths/affirmations.

Once again, JMHO & not intended to be perceived as advice to anyone in any other state or even Missouri for that matter. Check with your state's SOS for the definitive answer in your individual situation.

Reply by HisDissidentHughness on 6/18/04 8:26am
Msg #3171

Re: Excellent Question!

I think an oath at the beginning of the transaction is sufficient, since the affiant has the chance to see what he is swearing to before signing it. If he disagrees with the contents, he doesn't sign. It's somewhat similar to swearing someone before testifying at trial: They have no idea what questions they will have to field, but they know they will have to do so honestly.

Sorry I won't be around for a couple of days to contribute to the discussion. I'm off to be a delegate to the Texas Democrat Convention.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 6/18/04 8:56am
Msg #3172

As You See Fit!

Far be it from me to tell you what to do in TX. I'm glad you added your postcript concerning your whereabouts for the next few days. It confirms in my mind why you & I are at loggerheads over so many issues. And ne'er the Twain shall meet!

Reply by Bob-Chicago on 6/18/04 9:25am
Msg #3173

Overkill, Dennis

When I have been present at court proceedings or depositions, the oath is administered at the beginning of the parties testimony, not re-administered prior to each question.
Now that you know the truth about Hugh, you will probably never agree with him again. Some think that most Republicans live in the past anyway, and are thus condemed to repeating their mistakes.

Reply by Gracie on 6/18/04 9:49am
Msg #3174

Re: Overkill, Dennis

I agree with Dennis about affidavits - each is different, each has a separate jurat. A swearing in for testimony (trial, deposition) covers the whole event, an oath for an affidavit covers only the info contained in the affidavit.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 6/18/04 10:03am
Msg #3180

I've Not Agreed With Hugh On Much Up To This Point...

...and it appears our political worldviews will keep us (you & me) from finding common ground as well, Bob.

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 6/18/04 10:49am
Msg #3182

Re: Excellent Question!

I agree Hugh. I place the signers under oath at the beginning with a general swearing in. As I get to each affidavit, or other document requiring a jurat, I remind them they are under oath and that they are swearing (or affirming) to the contents of the document.

The oath I give at the onset goes like this:

Do you swear or affirm that the information contained in these documents, to best of your knowledge, is true and correct as evidenced by you signature or initials to those documents. And you further swear or affirm that you willingly, without duress or coercion, sign your true names or initial each document that is required.

Reply by HisHughness on 6/18/04 10:51am
Msg #3183

Re: What Purpose Does the Word "Allegations" Serve?

My alleged wife got sick, so the Democrats will have to do without me this weekend and you will have to tolerate me.

In the law, the term "allegation" carries no baggage; it simply means "averment," "statement," "declaration" or the like. It does, like averment, have the connotation of a statement the facts of which have not yet been determined to be true, which seems quite appropriate for an affidavit.

An example of such a statement would be, "Dennis Broadbrooks is a smart Republican." That is a naked averment or allegation, and begs for proof regarding Dennis's intellectual ability. Even more, it literally cries out for proof that "smart Republican" is not an oxymoron.

Reply by Bob-Chicago on 6/18/04 11:08am
Msg #3186

You Go Boy

Hope that both your alleged and real wives are feeling better soon.
Each question on a deposition or testimony is also different. Once you have been sworn, you remain sworn for the the duration of the proceedings, even if they extend over several days or more.
I have to go do some signings now. Business is holding up well. I've done more than 30 so far this week, with about 10 more scheduled so far for today and Sat. Glad I bought a new computer, the E-Mail docs print out much faster now. Nearly half of my signings are now e-mail docs.
Trading barbs with the "The Dennis" is a lot more fun than signings, but doesn't pay so hot. I do not understand how our political opinions effect the quality of our opinions as NSA's
I was, of course, just yanking Dennis' chain. Nothing personal. If you can't have a little fun once in a while, what is the point?

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 6/18/04 11:41am
Msg #3191

Thanks for "Yanking My Chain", Bob...

...as it confirms in my mind you have no real basis for your opinions. My comments about political party affiliation have nothing to do with the "quality" of one's opinion, just how they arrive at their conclusions. It simply explains one's worldview & how that "colors" our view of the events happening around us. I believe there is a vast chasm of difference between what Democrats believe in & what Republicans see as the truth. It manifests itself in many ways including everyday decision making.

BTW, thanks for "trading barbs". It CAN be fun...isn't that the point?

Reply by Stephanie on 6/18/04 12:13pm
Msg #3195

Re: You Go Boy

Bob
It's good to see that you're so busy; I've noticed that many Signing Agents are slow with very few signings.

I'm keeping pretty busy myself.

Hey - have a great weekend!

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 6/18/04 11:24am
Msg #3187

In the Everyday, Common Usage of the Term...

..."allegation" most certainly does carry "baggage" with it, as do a lot of those in the Democrat liberal persuasion. It'd be my contention that the vast majority of the general population would view the word with some apprehension if they thought it was being applied to them via their signature on a set of loan documents in their own home. I also believe the courtroom analogy falls short as in my opinion each separate affidavit is its own separate "trial". That point can argued till the cows come home without resolution.

In short you are allowed to perform your oaths as you see fit. Nothing in my comments has said you should cease & desist. Knowing you as I do, I'm quite sure you'll continue right along with your current modus operandi. BTW, can one assume from your opening statement that you're unsure if you're married or not?

Reply by HisMilquetoastHughness on 6/18/04 11:39am
Msg #3190

Re: In the Everyday, Common Usage of the Term...

Dennis, it isn't that I'm not sure whether I'm married or not. I'm just not sure who's wearing the pants in the family, and thus I'm unsure which spousal role I'm supposed to play.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 6/18/04 11:50am
Msg #3192

I Understand Completely...

...for if I were a member of a political party showing unbridled support for same sex marriage, I'd be confused about the role I should play in my own home too.

Reply by BrendaTX on 6/18/04 11:27am
Msg #3188

I say this as one statement after I get the ID's.

Do you swear upon your oath that you are who you claim to be and that the documents you have presented to me for identification are yours and are original documents and not falsified? And, do you swear, as well, that by signing the documents we have here today that you are doing so truthfully and for the purpose or purposes stated in the documents?

This is basically what the attorneys taught me that I used to work for and would have me say when we notarized documents in the office.

Regards, Brenda

Reply by jamie/fl on 6/19/04 9:00am
Msg #3222

In Florida the oath is adminstered simply by asking the affiant the affirm audibly the truthfulness of the document.

Therefore, I only ask "Do you affirm that the information found in this affidavit is true?"

There is no need to raise your hand in Florida. So, I don't ask them to do so.

If I were swearing in someone at a court proceeding or similar venue I would have them raise their hand. However, to sign an affidavit, I don't. I simply ask them if the information is true.

Reply by Gracie on 6/21/04 10:55am
Msg #3265

This is what I say in PA, Jamie/FL, and add "...to the best of your knowledge, information and belief?"