Posted by PayMeNotary on 6/24/04 3:54pm
Msg #3475

Getting Paid--Hugh any thoughts

Did a rush signining the other day for a new company. Was leery since I couuld notcheck them out. Had clients sign the following.

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(Borrower Names Here) Mortgage Closing (Date Here)


The undersigned hereby agree that if payment is not received within 90 days from Sigining Company Name in the amount of $(the fee) payable to (Notary Name here) for the mortgage closing and notary services provided on (Date & Time), they will be liable in the amount of (the fee) to (Notary Name).

Borrower Name, Signs & Dates
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I will use it to send to the lender, signing service, borrowers and court if I have to. I have them sign it first thing, if they want the loan and the money, they will sign. I will be willing to swear under oath before small claims court if I have not been paid by the signing company as described above.

I have had no objections so far. Used it four times in the last few days. Have not tested in in court yet. Hope I never have too.

Anythoughts on improving it?

Reply by Roger/OH on 6/24/04 4:30pm
Msg #3478

Re: Not Hugh - but been around a long time...

Ideas like this have come up before, and any SS/title company/lender would be pretty upset if they knew you were using it on their customers.

Understand that as an independent contractor, your fee agreement is with the SS or title company that hired you, period. The borrowers have already paid your fee to the lender in their closing costs (see the HUD), do not have a fee agreement with you, and are not liable to you for any part of it. The borrowers did not negotiate your fee, you and the SS or title company did. They can't be responsible for a fee they didn't participate in, and have already paid for. It's not their fault if an SS stiffs you. Further, you are not providing "closing" services (where funds are disbursed, etc), you're doing a signing. Sooner or later, someone will complain about your use of this form to an ss, and you'll be out. Deal with good companies and leave the borrowers out of it before you're turned in by one of them. Bet you don't include that form in the docs you send back to the lender!

Reply by HisHughness on 6/24/04 6:29pm
Msg #3480

Re: Not Hugh - but been around a long time...

I would have a more immediate concern: Is this not an additional fee -- or at least a contingent fee -- associated with the loan, and does it belong on the HUD? I dunno myself. Where is Paul when you need him?

I do like your thinking, though. There has to be a better way to deal with deadbeats than just SIU -- sucking it up.

Years ago, in less enlightened times, I represented a guy who ran a bar in the lobby of one of those downtown Atlanta glass towers. The original building management folks had told him they didn't want hard liquor, but if he couldn't make it on beer and wine, they'd ease up and let him have a pouring license. Well, he couldn't make it, and he was swirling down the toilet fast. Unfortunately, the original management crowd was gone, replaced by a bunch of narrow-tie, short-hair, button-down-collar Yankees who wanted nothing to do with any kind of bar in their building. He came to me, and, sure enough, by the terms of his lease, he couldn't pour drinks.

There's always more than one way to skin a cat, though. I went down on the strip and found a jiggly-busted stripper, had her dress up in her pasties and G-string, wrapped a raincoat around her, took her up the elevator to the 11th floor in the building where the management offices were, shoved her out, and told her to go do her thing.

She waltzed around their offices in all her glory, handing out her cards and saying, "Hi, I'm Bobbee. Come catch my act next Monday when I open in the bar downstairs."

It took less than 30 minutes for their lawyer, apoplectic, dyspeptic and quite energetic of language to get me on the phone, demanding to know what the hell was going on. I told him:

"Well, Simon, you know my man is going bankrupt because he can't serve mixed drinks. And you folks are absolutely right; the lease says he can't. But you know, I read that lease real carefully, and it doesn't say a thing about operating either a strip joint or a gay bar. We thought we'd try the strip joint first."

We got our new lease.

You should try to find a new skinning knife.

Reply by Bobbi in CT on 6/24/04 9:00pm
Msg #3493

been around a long time :) ...

Loved that!!! My youngster commercial lawyers LOVED it, too. Of course, they usually represent the landlords, so I think they'll be checking their drafting next time.

Goes with that old saying, "Right or wrong, he who has the best lawyer wins." Or in this case, the most creative.

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 6/24/04 11:18pm
Msg #3497

PayMeNotary recently opined: "Anythoughts on improving it?"

Trash it. Though I don't know of any cases involving a notary signing agent, there are plenty of subcontractors trying to do the same thing when the contractor doesn't pay. My experience in this is with "contracted" business arrangements in the IT industry.** (Building and physical property subcontracting excepted.) The subcontractor's beef is squarely with the contractor. Not the recipient of the goods or services of the contractor. As and independent contractor, you are typically subcontracted by the title company or signing service. (The signing service is usually subcontracted by the title company who is contracted by the lender.) The recipient of the goods (borrowers, in our case) is not a principal in the transactional arrangement and therefore cannot be held liable for the terms and conditions of the contract the contractor makes with the subcontractors.

** It is common practice for companies to contract with a software development company for a software widget. The developers subcontract programmers and testers. These programmers and testers are paid by the development company under some contract. The development company is paid by the company that needs the software. If a programmer or tester doesn't receive payment for services rendered, they cannot seek judgment from the company that hired the development company. Even if they were physically working at the recipient company's offices. I think this scenario would hold true for NSA's the same as it does for the programmers and testers.

Disclaimer: The above oratory is the author's opinion. It is not to be considered legal advice, as I am not an attorney licensed to practice in the State of Florida.


(Here I am sir Hughness.)