Posted by Linda on 5/26/04 12:03pm
Msg #2310

Adoption form/Please help/urgent

I am doing pro bono work for a friend of mine who is in the process of adopting 2 children from the Ukrain. He ask me yesterday for a notary acknowledgment for a copy of a paper from the homeland security. I am not sure what form to use. The instructions to be put on the acknowledgement are: This is a true, complete, Unaltered photocopy of (your names)immigration approval(form l-171)presented to me by the documents custodian. Signed/dated/and stamped by Notary. Can you help me please. TIA

Reply by HisHughness on 5/26/04 12:23pm
Msg #2311

I'm not sure what it is he is asking you to notarize, but it is not normally a notary's function to certify official documents. That is the province of the document's custodian. For example, a notary would not certify a deed as an official record, the county clerk would. About the only official record a notary would certify >>as being the official record<< is his notary journal. Hope this helps.

Reply by Linda on 5/26/04 12:57pm
Msg #2312

Ok, here is the name of the form:
Department of Homeland Security
Bureau of Citizenship & Immigration Service.
The people from the adoption services say this is done all the time. I am just saying that this is a copy of a photocopy in the name of the people who are adopting. Does this help? I appreciate your help.
Linda

Reply by HisHughness on 5/26/04 1:01pm
Msg #2313

Got me; I've never done a Ukranian adoption -- or even a West Virginia or California or Texas adoption. That's not the name of the form, however; that's the name of the agency that issues the form. Maybe somebody else who has done a foreign adoption can help.

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 5/26/04 1:21pm
Msg #2314

Luckily, in Florida, we can make and attest to copies of things (not all official records). However, I understand in CA you cannot, but you can notarize the custodians affidavit that the copy is valid. That is, the custodian of the document swears that he/she made the copy and that it is a valid copy. Then, as a notary, you can attach a jurat which states that the custodian swore to the facts presented in the affidavit.

Reply by LInda on 5/26/04 1:59pm
Msg #2315

Re: Adoption form/Please help/urgent/Thanks to everyone

Thank you very much for your help.

Reply by Linda on 5/26/04 2:00pm
Msg #2316

Re: Adoption form/Please help/urgent/Form for this

Can you tell me where to get the affidavit?

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 5/26/04 5:02pm
Msg #2322

Re: Adoption form/Please help/urgent/Form for this

You can make your own form to be filled in by the signer/custodian. A sample form can be found at http://www.expertsigning.com/docs/Doc%20Cust.pdf.

Just remember that some documents, such as birth certificates, etc., should not be copied. Check with the CA SOS if in doubt.

Reply by Linda on 5/26/04 5:11pm
Msg #2325

Re: Adoption form/Please help/urgent/Form for this

I already knew about that, but as I had stated this had been done before here in CA. by other parties so I knew there was a way. Yes, the party is just stating that this form is a copy. Thank you for your help and any information is always helpful and appreciated.

Reply by Donna McGee on 5/26/04 3:11pm
Msg #2318

Hi Linda,
From what you are saying you are certifying that the copy is a true copy. I would advise you check with your Department of State in your state to get the proper instruction.

The Department of State for the United States website is http://www.state.gov . Perhaps you can find the form there but check with your state to see what you can and cannot notarize as far as official and foreign documents. Since in some countries, a notary is a high ranking official, you may not have to correct credentials.

Congrats to your friends!

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 5/26/04 5:05pm
Msg #2323

Linda...

You said, "From what you are saying you are certifying that the copy is a true copy. " However, in CA, a notary cannot certify the copy. But, the notary can administer an oath to someone who states, under oath, that they made the copy and that the copy is true. It is the signer that certifies the copy. All that the notary does is to administer the oath and state the signer swore to the facts as presented in the statement.

Reply by Linda on 5/26/04 5:08pm
Msg #2324

Thank you so much. This board is wonderful.

Reply by Brenda Stone on 5/26/04 5:30pm
Msg #2327

Not exactly what you need now, but here is a form that I have to occasionally use for making a certified copy of a non-recordably document/non-public record (Texas).

I have had to use it a few times now when my hiring entity (lender/title co/signing agent) wants an original plus certified copies of the settlement statement signed--original borrower sigs on all. This is pretty much straight from the SOS blurb on my state commission booklet.

The form is linked here: http://texnotary.com/nonrecordablecopy.pdf

Regards, Brenda

Reply by LInda on 5/26/04 7:32pm
Msg #2330

Thank you Brenda

Reply by Brenda Stone on 5/26/04 9:13pm
Msg #2331

Any time! Give us an update when this all comes together. We learn from each other.

Sincerely, Brenda

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 5/26/04 9:37pm
Msg #2334

Brenda,

You posted to Linda, "Not exactly what you need now, but here is a form that I have to occasionally use for making a certified copy of a non-recordably document/non-public record (Texas)." However, it must be noted that in CA, the notary cannot attest to copies, not even non-recorded documents (with one or two exceptions), like they can in Texas or Florida, or many other states. Therefore, this form cannot be used by a CA Notary. The document custodian, must swear out a statement that they (the custodian) made the copy and attest to its trueness. The notary can only administer the oath and provide a jurat stating that the custodian swore to the facts as stated.

I know we all try to help each other here, which is great and we all need to keep doing that, but we also must understand that different states do sometimes have much different guidelines about what a notary can and cannot do. Solemnizing marriages and certifying copies are two things that vary greatly from state to state.

Reply by Brenda Stone on 5/27/04 12:12am
Msg #2335

Thanks PAW.

I would blow a fuse if I tried to keep up with any other state! I will be the first to admit that I only know Texas Notary law. I am an obnoxious stickler for the Texas notary law. I actually find Texas notary statutes to be interesting reading and a good way to be able to deflect requests that I bend my state's notary rules to indulge Aunt Billie Lou's or other relative's/friend's "Hey, good-buddy of mine" shady notary needs by letting the facts/rules be the bad guy and not me!).

You obviously appreciate fact and rules, also. As well, you are an interesting read and I always look at what you post, feeling confident that you are one who knows about what you speak.

In your post, you have illuminated my lack of clarity earlier. I was unclear for certain. For one thing, I "assumed" that any other states' notary would know their notary law, and not follow a path that was set up for Texas.

The document was offered (with my state identified) to give language in a similar document that could be
--cut and pasted into a search, along with
--identifying the necessary state, and
--perhaps another word or two that would bring a narrowed focus onto the subject, such as "adoption."

Vivisimo.com has this kind of capability--finding lots of sources, breaking them down into subjects and then giving the option of using keywords to further drill down to the matter at hand.

You are right. My post could be a real problem to a notary
--who did not know that each state is different,
--or did not know his/her own state's laws, or
--to a notary who did not practice due dilligence in checking facts before using something posted on this board.

Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to override any danger of misleading another notary with my assumptions that "Not exactly what you need now..." would convey all the meaning that I placed on it.

Sincerely, Brenda