Posted by nah_AR on 11/2/04 1:31pm
Msg #10772

Automobile Insurance

As Independent Contractors what is the purpose of signing companies needing proof of auto insurance. Rec'd request for Insurance Provider, Policy #, and Expiration Date. This is a coming from a company I have done many closings for. I am not willing to provide this information based on I cannot think of a logical reason it is needed. If anyone has a logical reason please let me know.

Reply by CarolynCO on 11/2/04 1:45pm
Msg #10774

I will not give out automobile insurance info to SS's. I agree that we are IC's, and as such, they have no control of *what* means our transportation is. My commitment to them is to get the docs, witness the signing and to get the docs back.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 11/2/04 2:46pm
Msg #10782

I Can Give You Their "Logic"...

...whether you accept it or not is up to you. I know for a fact there'll be more than one person disagree with my assessment, but their concerted opinions on this issue have never swayed mine. First of all, I have NO problem whatsoever in providing driver license information to the companies I contract with. It's a BUSINESS relationship I'm entering into with them & they're not asking for license info for nefarious purposes. They're simply at risk if one of us is involved in an "at fault" auto accident & the injured parties discover we were on a business trip to accomplish the signing. At that point EVERYONE involved in the signing chain CAN & MAY be named in an accompanying lawsuit. It won't matter if they're eventually judged to be innocent; they'll still have to defend themselves in the meantime & that costs money. If the Signing/Title company can determine you have auto liability insurance, it's one more layer of protection for them & only makes good business sense from their perspective.

Now, in anticipation of the naysayers who disagree with me in this regard...I want to say this. If you aren't comfortable in giving out your driver license information to a Signing/Title company, please DON'T GIVE IT OUT. By the same token, be prepared to accept the fact you MAY never hear from this company again. They have the right to dictate that requirement as part of their contractual arrangement with you & YOU have the right to decline. I'd say you should simply part amicably at that point. I personally believe it's wrong to disparage the companies who are making this request solely on the basis of protecting their long term business future. JMHO!

Reply by Roger/OH on 11/2/04 3:08pm
Msg #10786

Re: I Can Give You Their "Logic"...

I have to respectfully disagree with Dennis on this one. I have been through a few accident reports with my kids, and nowhere on the form does it state where they were going to or coming from, only where the accident occurred. It would be difficult to establish in any case - maybe I was going to stop at the hardware store on my way to the signing? Now if I arrive at the borrower's and plow thru their garage or something, then MY insurance will take over (and probably cancel me!). I agree with Carolyn that how we arrive at the signing is irrelevant; all that the ss needs to care about is that my commission hasn't expired and I conduct the signing properly. There's more than enough ID theft going around out there. JMHO as well...

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 11/2/04 3:41pm
Msg #10789

Evidently...

...the accidents your kids were involved in were not of a serious nature. I define "serious" as when someone is killed or maimed for life. It wouldn't take a personal injury attorney very long to "discover" the nature of your reason for being on the road if there's even the slightest hint of a "deeper pocket" to be fished out of the sea. Roger, you (and Paul/FL) continually miss my point in all of this. The intimation here is that there's something inherently evil with asking for driver license information. I adamantly insist there's nothing WRONG with that. It's no different than if you can't agree on a fee. YOU may not be comfortable with their request & since it's YOUR choice in the matter...DON'T DO IT...but also be prepared to suffer the consequences if they decline to utilize your services. JMHO!

Reply by Bob-Chicago on 11/2/04 4:21pm
Msg #10793

Dennis is correct

Even if not politically.
Seriously, in the event of a serious accident. when you are heading to or from a signing, the injured party will look for anybody in sight with a potential deep pocket.
Agan, if you don't want to give them the info, then don't, but be prepared for not doing signings for that company. In our world of shrinkng opportulnity, this may be one further shrink.
What I usually do re: my dl is give thm a copy , but block out a few numbers. That way they can see that I have a valid license but can't steal my identity , No one has ever given me any flack on this. ( I have no idea why anyone would want MY identity anyway ). Myauto insurance info is not a problem for me in this case.

Reply by CarolynCO on 11/2/04 5:15pm
Msg #10797

Re: Dennis is correct

I have also occasionally submitted a copy of my driver's license and blackened out the license number and social security number. However, the original post said the SS was asking for automobile insurance information, company, policy #, expiration date, etc., and I still don't think this is information a SS needs. If I lose signings because of it. I guess I will.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 11/2/04 5:39pm
Msg #10800

Auto Insurance Info

Carolyn, I'm glad you pointed out the original posters' statement that some companies are requesting auto insurance info, as I intended for that to be a part of my message as well. All you need to provide to the company is a "certificate of insurance". Normally this certificate shows your name, address, the insurance company name, policy #, policy period, & a brief description of the vehicle insured. This bare bones information is all that's necessary for them to determine if you have valid coverage. I have no problem whatsoever in furnishing that type of data. As an insurance agent I can assure you it's a common business practice for that type of info to be disseminated to third parties who've requested it of the agent's insureds. It happens every single day.

Reply by CarolynCO on 11/2/04 6:39pm
Msg #10803

Re: Auto Insurance Info

Dennis,
I suppose it's no big thing to supply the info. However, I believe it should be a requirement at state level to ensure that every driver/vehicle is covered with insurance. I guess the reason it irks me to supply the info to a SS is the simple fact that Colorado has the highest insurance rates in the nation, mainly because of uninsured drivers, which is really ironic, considering that you can't license a vehicle without proof of insurance. When I complained to the officials I was told that many people take out insurance for 30 days in order to get proof that they have insurance to license the vehicle and immeidately drop it. What would keep a SA from doing the same thing as proof for a SS? Why aren't the insurance companies required to notify the State that insurance has lapsed? If enforcement was stricter, there would be no need to show proof to a SS that you had insurance, because it would be mandatory. My husband and I are insurance poor simply because we have too much to lose if we are ever involved in an accident, and because it has become a suing society.

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 11/2/04 6:44pm
Msg #10805

Re: Auto Insurance Info

I know we've had this discussion before, Dennis, but I still contend (and so did my family attorney) that they have no reason to know or want this information. You contract to complete an assignment at some place. You do not contract to transport anything to or from that place. How you get there is your business.

I will not offer my insurance "certificate" to anyone but state agencies as required by law for the privilege of driving and to law enforcement when asked for proof of insurance.

And if I found out that my agent was giving out my information to anyone without my knowledge, I would do something about it. (Not sure what, but I certainly would look into it.) In my opinion, it is a violation of my privacy, unless there is a specific and demonstrated need for that information.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 11/2/04 8:01pm
Msg #10808

Perhaps I Need to Clarify...

...as I didn't intend to infer that as an insurance agent I "willy nilly" give out certificates to anyone who calls me on the phone & asks for one. I ONLY do it at the specific direction & permission of my client. My statement that "it happens every day" simply means it's NOT out of the ordinary. I'm quite certain you could talk to the attorney(s) representing the signing company & they'd be of the opinion it's a wise move on the part of the signing company to request this information. I believe it's a virtual certainty it wasn't a secretary sitting at her desk one day who all of a sudden said to her boss, "Hey, you know it'd be a darn good idea if we started requiring our Notaries to furnish their driver licenses & auto policy declarations pages!" You can bet your bottom dollar it came at the advice of an attorney. Their attorney & yours could debate the "necessity" point till the cows come home. The bottom line is that if the signing company wants it & you don't want to cooperate, both parties should "move on down the road". To borrow a phrase from Janet Lynch, "PERIOD!".

Reply by nah_AR on 11/3/04 1:41pm
Msg #10827

Re: Evidently...

Having been involved in two serious accidents both several years ago...I must agree that I was never asked where I was coming from or going to. If you hire a contractor to come to your home and lay bricks is part of your hiring decision based on whether or not he/she has car insurance?

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 11/3/04 3:01pm
Msg #10830

Please...

...I'm weary of repeating the insurance aspects of this issue on a professional level. If you believe your personal experience with two "serious" auto accidents qualifies you to give advice in this area, go right ahead...be my guest! I'll bow to your credentials & allow you to be the "expert" in this discussion. It's all yours...take it away!

Reply by BrendaTX on 11/3/04 4:48pm
Msg #10838

Re: Please...

Whether it is necessary, or a a good idea or not to provide insurance, many companies want to see it so that they are not hiring folks that drive without it.

When there is an accident, right or wrong, the injured will look for the best angle on the money.

If the sa does not have adequate insurance, next comes interrogatories to find out that the sa was on his/her way to/from work. It does not matter if it is right or wrong...they will pull everyone up to the lender and title company into it before it's all over with. And, that's just how it is.


It's really simple: If you don't want to show it and they require it - part company and find another place to contract with. I don't have a problem showing my insurance card.

Reply by Joan-OH on 11/2/04 6:40pm
Msg #10804

But your insurance company will ask

I worked many years for an insurance company and for every accident we asked what was the purpose of your trip/where were you going? Not sure if the other attorney get's a hold of this information though.

Joan-OH