Posted by ItsMe123 on 11/18/04 9:32pm
Msg #11653

Basic Notary Information

First of all although I suspect some may feel the need to blast me I want all to know that I mean no offense by this post and I know everyone starts new sometime in everything they do. However, I find some of the things some ask (super general loan/mortgage/notary basics) nothing less than shocking.

I mean seriously if you don't know why a deed of trust/mortgage needs to be notarized in the county that the borrowers are signing it in, you have a problem. If you don't know the definition of APR, then you have a problem. If you don't know what docs are recorded, you have a problem. If you don't know the Homestead Laws/Dower Rights/Spousal Rights of your state or the state which the mortgage will be recorded in so you know who has to sign the "legals” you have a problem. If you don't know what I mean when I say legals, you have a problem. Etc....

Please understand that when you are green you owe it to yourself, your clients (from the L.O. to the escrow off. and/or the SS that hired you) and the borrowers to have some idea of what you are doing and if you don't, you need to learn it somewhere else other than someone's kitchen table. If it doesn't bother you that you are affecting the others in the transaction with your lack of knowledge than at least realize you are placing yourself in a great deal of liability. Your E&O will not cover ignorance. Also you may on the job train yourself out of a job.

Consider the flip side of this coin, if this was your mortgage as a borrower would you feel comfortable if someone with the knowledge you have signing it down? If you worked on 100% commission as most L.O.'s do, would you feel confident enough in your skills/knowledge to refer yourself as a signing agent to a L.O you knew? If you owned a SS and your contracts were dependent on the competency of those you hire, would you hire yourself?

Look around the internet, learn a little about mortgages, title and notary law.

I really do not mean any offense and I do not proclaim to be all knowledgeable in the least. I do apologize if I come across as offensive to some as that IS NOT my intent rather my intent is to get a message to some of those just getting started of what will help them be the most successful. (I admit there is a little selfishness as I do hope industry wide the "fax-back" requests will decrease instead of increasing---lol, hey I can dream)

Now please instead of using your time flaming me with your anger, use it for yourself for some education. It really isn't plausible to think one can start a business for themselves and know absolutely nothing about it and not take the initiative to learn it is it??
Also don't retort with "well, that's why I use this board" as it is not the purpose of this board to train but rather to network and add on to what should be basic knowledge( at least that is my perception and do excuse if I am wrong.)


Even the best loan can be lost at the table. Best Regards

Reply by Linda on 11/18/04 9:59pm
Msg #11657

Thank you , Thank you, Thank you ! The threads have been really bad lately. I agree with you whole hearted..... Thank you

Reply by Jon on 11/18/04 10:17pm
Msg #11658

I agree, I usually bypass the "what's the difference between an acknowledgement and a jurat?" questions it gets under my skin that so many people are told that they can get rich quick and don't have a proper understanding as to what a notary is.

Reply by Mortgage Closers of San Antonio - Kenneth C Whitton Jr on 11/18/04 11:53pm
Msg #11664

Can I get an AMEN!!?!??!?!

Thank you so much for pointing out the obvious... As a double degreed college graduate with licensure and certification under my belt, I am still learning, but by jove, I do not need help to know what to do when I open a document package. The NNA has a lot of resource information for the new signing agent. Spend the money and get the certification, it is well worth it. Not only does certification allow you to command more money, it denotes a certain level of professionalism. Would you want to work with an unlicensed real estate agent to purchase your home? Think about it for a while.

Good luck to all the new agents out there, we were all there once.

Ken

Reply by Jon on 11/19/04 11:02am
Msg #11689

Ken said:

"The NNA has a lot of resource information for the new signing agent. Spend the money and get the certification, it is well worth it."


I disagree, I think that the NNA with their get rich quick advertising and incorrect information is a major part of the reason we see so many uninformed notaries. They see it as a money making venture without regard to the profession of a notary. At one point they were very helpful, but since they bought NASA, their only concern is how much money they make. The certification from the NNA does not mean much to most in this business. Since there is no standard, they can say what they want. I have been told by notaries that took the course that they were told that it is UPL to complete the RTC, or anything else other than the notarial cert. We are more that just notaries and couriers, but not according to the NNA. They will tell you not to give advice regarding a document, and then tell you that since you can't certify copies in Ca, suggest to the client that they complete a "Certification by Document Custodian", isn't that UPL since we can't give advice? My other problem with the NNA is that they almost never use state law when citing the source of their information, it is usually the "Model Notary Act", which was written by the NNA according to what they believe SHOULD be law, and not the law itself. The NNA can be helpful if you have basic notary questions, but you need to check all their answers against state law to make sure they are giving correct information.

Reply by Mortgage Closers of San Antonio - Kenneth C Whitton Jr on 11/19/04 4:32pm
Msg #11704

These are all things that a prudent notary should do, regardless of who they ask... I always double check information against my state laws... It is UPL to make any marks in any part of a document other than the notarial section...

The MNA is quite analagous to a resolution that might be passed by some civic group. It states a position and their interpretation.

Let the buyer beware... You should always research before you make a decision or respond to a stimulus.

Reply by NICOLE WELCH on 11/19/04 4:56pm
Msg #11711

Another great tool and something that can be looked in this real estate market is to pay the additional money to become a real estate agent. (in the process of doing) I have looked over my packets, and actually went to the the web for the definition and repercussions of the documents that the borrower/seller is signing and what I am notarizing, like the original poster stated, ignorance is not a good defense when you market yourself as knowledgeable. Ca homestead and spousal implications can be found on the California state department of realty website.

Reply by Jon on 11/19/04 6:28pm
Msg #11712

It is not UPL to fill in the dates on the RTC. We are more than just a notary and the RTC(which doesn't get notarized anyway) needs to be filled out as a part of our duties as a signing agent. What about the ID docs that the SA needs to fill out? Is it UPL if we fill them out?

My point is that the NNA is doing a poor job at best with their seminars and continue to saturate the market with SA's that don't have the most basic skills needed to do this job. I guess I should be thankful though, all of the new recruits make my customers appreciate my abilities all the more.

Reply by VA NSA on 11/19/04 11:44pm
Msg #11729

Amen Jon. Luckily an ephiphany occurs every once in a while & schedulers get fed up with Notaries who don't possess the necessary expertise (not to mention are often lacking in the professionism dept.) If the scheduler is invested in their business they'll often come to realize they need to keep their customers happy and hire a Notary that gives them confidence their deal is top priority and minimizes the amt of * hitting their fans.

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/20/04 12:28am
Msg #11736

"Not only does certification allow you to command more money"

Has there every been any proof of this being shown to be true, other than the NNA stating it as a fact?

Reply by Mortgage Closers of San Antonio - Kenneth C Whitton Jr on 11/20/04 12:54am
Msg #11741

ABSOLUTELY!!! I know several notaries not certified and they are not able to command the fees that I am able to get... They also do not provide the level of service and lack of errors...

I really am not bragging... I really do feel that my NNA CNSA training helped me get started and provided me with a good foundation upon which to work... I have since completed a second college degree and am now a license Real Estate Agent, and I am sure those things have a lot to do with my abilities, confidence and credentials.

Sorry folks, but I am kinda partial to the guys... I was UNEMPLOYED and had been for SEVEN years before I got started in this business. I had returned to college to change careers and now having graduated with a degree in Psychology, have no intent of going into practice...

Reply by Nd_WA on 11/21/04 4:46am
Msg #11787

I disagree ken,

I'm not bragging either...I don't think a certification has anything to do with being able to command your fees. Unlike you, I used to be a RE agent and I started this NSA business without any additional training/certification except my notary law.

Having the knowledges required to do an NSA job is one thing, but understanding how the RE industry work and the fundamental of doing (negotiating) business is the key. I've been very selective as to whom I want to "do business with" and I'm getting top dollars along with happy repeated customers.

"Doing business with" is different from "working for" someone...In my opinion is the lack of knowledge for some in this business to upheld the industry standard. "Working for" someones (a boss to employee mentality) allow them to manipulate/control how much they want to pay versus how much you want for what you are worth.

Reply by Mortgage Closers of San Antonio - Kenneth C Whitton Jr on 11/22/04 7:12am
Msg #11830

I can understand and respect your opinion... Just know, I work for no one.

Reply by anonymous on 11/21/04 9:33am
Msg #11789

I ABSOLUTELY disagree

I am not certified and I charge (and receive) top fees. I've got 30+ years' experience and there is absolutely no new 'certified' agent who can hold a candle to what I can do for my clients. By 'new' I mean someone who has just gotten their commission and taken a test to be certified, with no background in this business. I've been doing signings since 1997 and I can't recall the times when someone has asked me if I'm certified - I'll say once a year and then I'm turning them down because they are lower paying signing services. Certification is a MARKETING tool to be used when you're new and building your business. Another plus is it gets you to the top of the notary lists, nothing else.

Reply by CarolynCO on 11/21/04 9:42am
Msg #11790

Re: Certification Myths

**ABSOLUTELY!!! I know several notaries not certified and they are not able to command the fees that I am able to get... They also do not provide the level of service and lack of errors...

I really am not bragging... I really do feel that my NNA CNSA training helped me get started and provided me with a good foundation upon which to work... **

NNA certification is more or less a joke. The *test* is open book, has no time limit, which means you can take as long as you want looking up the answers ... but does that mean you are going to remember them once the *test* is over?

As for commanding higher signing fees -- it all depends on the SS and what they are willing to pay -- they offer, you counter, and they/you take it or leave it. "Level of service" is not dependent on certification either. Level of service means knowing your own state's notary laws, which does not mean relying on the NNA's info; your personality and ability to let the Borrower(s) feel comfortable *with* you and not be intimidated *by* you; not to talk down to the Borrower(s) by throwing out a lot of verbage they don't understand to simply impress them. Level of service means letting the Borrower(s) in front of you not only feel but know that they are the most important people at that moment, and that they, and their loan docs, have your undivided attention.

I took NNA's one-day seminar and passed their certification test. However, I've had no SS exclaim that they are calling me because of the prestige of me being an NNA member nor my NNA certification credentials. IMO, certification does not mean knowledge or guarantee error-free docs.

Reply by CarolynCO on 11/21/04 12:38pm
Msg #11792

Re: oops - verbiage

Reply by BrendaTX on 11/21/04 12:53pm
Msg #11795

Don't read if you have no sense of humor...

Here's a picture of me, Carolyn and our spelling bee friends. Hugh is also there, and now, CaliNotary - aren't you that one behind me ???

http://gilbertv.com/coppermine/albums/08252004/spellingnazis.jpg

(Everyone, I am JUST KIDDING!!!!!)

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/21/04 8:36pm
Msg #11809

Re: Don't read if you have no sense of humor...

Hee. I'm definitely gonna have to save that one.

Reply by CarolynCO on 11/21/04 9:07pm
Msg #11811

Re: Don't read if you have no sense of humor...

And we're all smiling.

Reply by BrendaTX on 11/21/04 12:43pm
Msg #11794

Re: Certification Myths

Said Carolyn: "NNA certification is more or less a joke. The *test* is open book, has no time limit, which means you can take as long as you want looking up the answers ... but does that mean you are going to remember them once the *test* is over?"

The best thing about this test is to keep a copy of it and to learn what is in it.

Carolyn's right, folks.

You keep putting the answers in until you get it right. Not that I would know this, since I did my test perfectly the first time... [Liar, liar, pants on fire.]

I am glad to have the certification, but NEVER in my memory had one job require it. My memory could be incorrect, but a sure answer is "90% of my jobs have not required certification."

Reply by CarolynCO on 11/21/04 2:13pm
Msg #11796

Re: Certification Myths

Brenda said "The best thing about this test is to keep a copy of it and to learn what is in it. "

That is true, and I do reference NNA's "big book" however, I have discovered that many of the SS's that give a skill or knowledge test, or have a reference package in their sign-up packet, contain similar, if not the same questions. I got my certification, and did think it was going to have SS's vying for me, and I do get calls from my NNA listing -- but the certification only put my name before NNA members who are not certified, and generally speaking, these calls are from low-paying SS's.

I get more and better paying calls from my paid listings on Notary Rotary and 123Notary and from my own marketing. My NNA certification is good until 2006, but I don't think I'll take the recertification test at that time.

Reply by Mortgage Closers of San Antonio - Kenneth C Whitton Jr on 11/22/04 7:16am
Msg #11831

Re: Certification Myths

As for being open-book, the real world is open book. What about the online degree programs? What about online examinations? Get real, in the practice of anything, you have access to a collection of reference material. I have a degree in psychology, and in taking that degree I had to take a course in statistics. My professor gave open book exams. In doing so, he tested conceptually such that you were unable to simply open the book and find the answer.

As to guaranteeing error free docs... You are correct, it does not, my perfectionism does that.

Reply by BrendaTX on 11/22/04 7:43am
Msg #11833

Re: Certification Myths

Said KCW, Jr.: "Get real"

Omigosh, KCW, Jr. is really Dr. Phil! Could it be that the problems suffered by NSAs are going to be the next string of segments????

(Just Kidding! )

Reply by CarolynCO on 11/22/04 10:25am
Msg #11845

Re: Certification Myths

**As to guaranteeing error free docs... You are correct, it does not, my perfectionism does that.**

I'm a perfectionist as well. However, I also know that there is no such thing as absolute perfection, and if you believe there is, then all that psychology has clouded your head.

A little something my parents instilled in me as I was growing up - I can do anything I want, I can be anyone I want, I'm just as good as anyone else, but don't ever get to the point where I believe I'm better than anyone else or that I'm infallible, because someone will come along and knock me down a peg or two.

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/21/04 8:32pm
Msg #11807

"Sorry folks, but I am kinda partial to the guys... I was UNEMPLOYED and had been for SEVEN years before I got started in this business."

You give the credit to the NNA for this? I've been doing this full time for the bulk of this year, I have never been remotely associated with the NNA, am making a decent amount of money from it, I'm getting what I view to be quite fair fees for my work. I give the credit to ME for getting to this point; I'm the one who took the initiative, I'm the one who made an effort to learn the business, I'm the one who did it while I was working full time at another job until I felt I could make a better living doing this, I'm the one who marketed myself to the companies that are using me.

But if you want to give the credit to the NNA and your worthless title of "certified" signing agent, go right ahead.