Posted by BrendaTX on 11/14/04 8:38pm
Msg #11321

Four Acknowledgment Certificates Requested - Input please

Would love your input, folks.

Witness only signing. Less than 25 pages total. 4 documents.

Loan Agree Modification is the document I am concerned with. It refers to a note signed in 1999. It is a document 13 pages long. Pages 12 and 13 contain four identical acknowledgments. Two on each page.

Each ack is the same as the other. Both borrowers are stated on each ack certificate. None references the document it is attached to.

Instruction from SS is to notarize the attached acknowledgments.

My position is that I will notarize one. I am set on that, but would be interested to hear other notaries input as to why I should not feel uneasy about this lender’s requirements on this.

Is there any state that would allow more than one in this situation?

Please feel free to post anonymously if you don’t want to answer with your name. Just give me some basis to provide to the SS, if you have any. To me, this seems like the kind of thing that will shut our industry down if it is done by notaries who don't know it's bad practice.

I have decided to forego my fee rather than argue it, but I feel that I should submit my concerns to “some authority” if there is not a good reason for this request that I am too shortsighted to see.

The lender is one that a borrower would need if they had questionable credit. The SS is a $50 company, but met my fee of $90 - 24 miles from my base.

The borrowers were the sweetest people in the world. It would have been a wonderful experience except for this quadruple ack situation. It was on Saturday, so I could only leave a message when I realized there were extra acks. Should have caught it the day before - My fault and part of the reason I will forego my fee. But the question remains as to the part on the extra certificates.

My ears are open. eMail me if you don’t want to post. I will keep any input confidential received via email. This kind of thing keeps me up at night.

Reply by Glena/NV on 11/14/04 8:58pm
Msg #11322

I would also be leary of completing all. I will complete one and ask the SS why the need for extra certificate. If they insist that you complete all four call your SOS and address it as instructed. I don't think that in NV, where I am, it is covered but it is better to be safe. I think that there should only be one certificate per notarized document. Also, note on the certificate where it should be attached to (in this case Loan Agreement Modification), loan document #, attached to page 12 of 13 or page 13 of 13.

Reply by BrendaTX on 11/14/04 9:16pm
Msg #11324

Good advice, Glena: "If they insist that you complete all four call your SOS and address it as instructed."


>>>I appreciate this response from one who has seen fraud in the trenches.

Glena, please post the link for the website that reported your incident in detail. It's worthwhile reading. But, I have lost my link to it.

BTW - You are my hero for staying in there and stopping it! I know it was not an easy thing to continue to be involved in. <<<<

Reply by Glena/NV on 11/14/04 10:00pm
Msg #11325

Thank you for the kind words, Brenda!

It is funny that you mentioned that. That was the only transaction left which I have done for A-MTS that I have not been paid yet ---since July.

Since you brought it up, I want to go ahead and update you of the elderly man's situation. I got a call from him two nights ago to let me know that he just got a phone line hooked up and is only now calling me. He could not thank me enough and told me that he hopes that I will not go away as he wants me to be a friend of his forever. He said that the quality of his life has gone up. He now has a helper who goes and cleans his house once a week, a lady who does the laundry for him and a warm cooked meal for him whenever he wants. He keeps repeating, "all because of you, my darling angel!" What a sweet, sweet man!

As far as being a hero, we were all heroes! You guys shared the whole experience with me and I thank you guys for the advice and input. The notary forum should be a place where we can go and voice out our experiences and not be attacked for it.

Anyway, here is the link again, and thank you for asking.
http://www.enotary.org/news/glena.html

Reply by BrendaTX on 11/14/04 10:20pm
Msg #11326

Be sure and read this link!

http://www.enotary.org/news/glena.html

Reply by Anonymous on 11/15/04 1:10pm
Msg #11352

A-MTS

I too had trouble w/A-MTS recently (in fact I have not yet cashed their check).

I went on-line and filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau and then when the BBB acknowledge my complaint via e-mail, I forwarded it to A-MTS.

I was told by another kind notary to contact Beronica at A-MTS for payment. I did and shortly thereafter I received my payments. Good luck and I hope you get paid.

Reply by BrendaTX on 11/15/04 8:59am
Msg #11337

Update

The Ss advises the lender requires it and that no other notary questions it out of hundreds signed.

At Glena's advice, I said that I would contact the SOS to get a quick ruling on whether or not to do it. The SS said "wait, let me get back to you on it."

I'll keep you posted.

Reply by BrendaTX on 11/15/04 9:19am
Msg #11338

Update - All resolved - Still Questions remain...

SS advises lender says that in my case it is ok to do it as I did.

Further, SS states that some states require it done with quadruple acknowledgments according to lender.

My question: What states allow for quadruple acknowledgments on one document?

Not saying it does not exist, because I certainly have no knowledge of any notary law except that in Texas. I am just interested to know about this so I don't feel so concerned with future assignments that this situation arises on.

I have never seen it before and to me, it's the same as supplying extra acknowledgments "in case one is lost" which has been discussed before on this forum. The consensus has always been "Don't do it." And thus, one reason for me being concerned quite a bit.

If you care to comment or email me, I'd be glad to hear what you think about this.

Reply by BrendaTX on 11/15/04 10:03am
Msg #11340

A Wise Signing Agent's Input

Got a call from a Wise Signing Agent and an email from another one:

Here's the view of the two of them:

#1 - Just do what you know is right and there will be no problem.

#2 - Just do what you know is right and there will be no problem. And, perhaps the SS is just trying to comply with their client's requests without realizing the entire situation. Possibly the quadruple acknowledgments are included because in some instances there would be four signers and the clerical person mistakenly filled in the same signers four times. Point well taken.

Alrighty! Now, that's good advice! Many thanks to the Wise Signing Agents who care if I cannot sleep at night.

I will always remember and never forget (until next time):

>>>Just do what you know is right and there will be no problem.<<<

Reply by Glena/NV on 11/15/04 12:38pm
Msg #11349

Good advise! Also, if you do not feel comfortable, stop!

When that red flag behind you goes up...you know that something is wrong. Do not proceed until you have fully investigated. It has saved me a bunch of times. I cannot believe what troubles I had been into from ignoring it. As a prefessional crafter for the past 12 years, there was a time when I almost cut the tip of my left index finger with a band saw, another time when I drilled my little finger and yet another time when the air got knocked out of me when a piece of wood kicked back while cutting on the table saw...I was crafting a furniture from a recycled headboard. I hand painted it with roses and did sell it for a whopping $350, but this incident happened because I ignored those tiny voices telling me that something will go wrong. Follow your instincts. You are right about the extra acknowledgements floating around. You did a good job. And remember, when anyone tells you that it is ok...it is your commission on the line - not theirs! More signings to you!

Reply by CLBM on 11/15/04 3:52pm
Msg #11359

Re: Good advise! Also, if you do not feel comfortable, stop!

Your gut feeling (we say that here in TX) is one you can usually depend on. If they make a mistake at the office and need a new ack. having a few extras means they won't have to call us to go back out again, for another fee. That is the only reason I can see that they would do that. Unless something fishy is going on. I would be with you on this one. One ack. one certificate. Let us know.

Reply by Jon on 11/15/04 6:45pm
Msg #11369

I'm a little late but here is my 2 cents. I have had many docs with more than one ack on it, usually it is for additional signers. If the signers need to sign seperately, no one has to attach additional acks. I also had one lender request that I do a seperate ack for each signer. Most of the time I just complete the one ack and am done with it, but there are always exceptions.

Reply by Jan Kohake on 11/15/04 8:58pm
Msg #11391

This sounds like something I have encountered lately. There is a loose ack. in with the docs, just a floater, as I call them, and on the instructions to the notary it states to have the borrowers sign this ack., even though there really is no place for the borrowers to sign, which I do, but I don't notarize it and put a sticky stating that I will not complete the notarization as it does not belong to any document. I had this happen twice last week with the same company.

Reply by Jon on 11/16/04 11:18am
Msg #11425

I definitely agree that you should not complete any ack that is not attached to a doc. This case is four ack's printed directly on the DOT in succession.