Posted by JM/Ca on 11/21/04 6:08pm
Msg #11800

Have several questions about first signing? RUSH HELP

Sorry if this is redundant but I'm very new at this. I'm doing everything in my power to learn the ropes about loan signing. I have ordered a book and am in the process of getting certified so that one day know what the hell I'm doing. I have a very basic knowledge because my hubby is mortgage/ loan agent, but I am still learning and need assistance from the Notary Gurus in the industry. I had my first signing today have a few questions before I return doc's to title.
1. 3-days right to cancel--- Is the day they signed considered one of the three days? If they signed on Friday 11/19/04. Do I begin the count of three days as of the day they sign or would it start on the following business day? I don't want to put the wrong date and time.

2. This is a re-fi where the husband is buying out the ex-wife. Re-fi is going only in his name; she is going to sign interspousal grant deed transfer. They won’t sign together instead I have to go 2o miles one way for him and 30 opposite direction to get her to sign. Since it will be on two different days what day should I use as date appeared before me? The deed already has one spot already typed for me to write in this info. Next to it is where they both sign. Do I need to attach another acknowledgement form since it will be on different days? Even if the ex-wife will no longer be on the loan does they 3-days right to cancel date apply to her in anyway?

I have a few more questions and would love some help but don't want to bug everyone.
Thanks.. JM

Reply by Harry [NR] on 11/21/04 7:04pm
Msg #11803

Here is how you get to the Notary Rotary Rescission Calendar

To help with your first question, see Msg #11166. It contains links to the Notary Rotary Year-at-a-Glance Rescission Calendars. To access this message, click the orange Search button and enter that message number in the appropriate box, then click Search. As you will see as you look at the calendar, the signing day is NOT counted.

Rationally, you can think of it this way... If the law should apply equally to all people, you cannot count the signing day as day 1 because the person signing at 8:00pm is disadvantaged relative to the person signing at 1:00pm. At least, that's how I think of it - as a matter of fairness.

Harry
Notary Rotary, Inc.

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/21/04 8:24pm
Msg #11805

"so that one day know what the hell I'm doing"

Which means you never should have accepted this signing in the first place. If you don't even know how to calculate the 3 day cancel period you have NO business doing loan signings right now.

Reply by JM on 11/21/04 9:55pm
Msg #11815

Dear CaliNotary- Aren’t you just a breath of fresh air. Thanks for your unkind words of encouragement. EXCUSE the IGNORANT people like myself for doing something so stupid like asking questions on an open forum "notary talk". What's really weird is if you look at your screen on Notary Rotary it say's "use forum to discuss notarial procedures, share experiences, ask questions from peers etc." NO clue where I ever came up with the idea to post a question. Your unpleasant, negative comment wasn’t necessary. I stated in my question that I am taking steps to become certified in loan signing. I assumed Q&A was part of the learning process!
Yes, I should be doing loan singings this is how a person learns....by actually doing something. For your information I had the loan agent present at signing, advised the client it was my first one, and I also know the person at title who assisted with the process. Thus I feel I took a fairly cautious approach. If I'm taking a class to get certified asking questions and tapping to all resources how else would someone of your caliber suggest a person learn. Lastly, I’m guessing you’re not much of a mentor. Thanks again for your wonderful enlightening feedback...much appreciated!!!!!!!

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/21/04 10:54pm
Msg #11817

No, you should NOT be doing loan signings yet.

A person does not only learn by doing. A surgeon doesn't learn how to do surgery by just cutting into somebody and hoping for the best. A car mechanic doesn't learn to do his job by just ripping parts off of a car. A rocket scientist doesn't send up a manned space shuttle and learn how to do his job during the mission. They all learn BEFORE they start doing the job.

Yes, you should be taking a class and tapping resources and asking questions. You just shouldn't actually be doing signings until you have a basic working knowledge of the process, and that you had to ask how to determine the RTC date shows that you clearly don't have that yet.

My unpleasant negative comment was indeed necessary. You seem to think that it's quite fine and normal for you to just muddle your way through a loan signing without even knowing the utmost basics of how to do the job. If you're so confident that this is ok, why don't you call your next borrower, when there's no loan signing agent with you at the closing and tell them that you have pretty much no idea what you're doing, that you'll be learning on their loan, and see what they have to say about it? After all, it's only a couple hundred thousand dollars of their money that you're dealing with.

I'm hardly the only person in here who feels this way. There was a thread about new notaries exactly like you posted in here a couple of days ago. I suggest you find it and read it as it was quite well stated. If you can put aside your snotty attitude long enough to see how it applies directly to YOU, you might get a little enlightenment.

Reply by JM on 11/22/04 12:28am
Msg #11819

Wow, once again you’re so impressive- I can only hope that when I grow up I can be just like you. If I "muddled" my way through the loan then how come I was so overly cautious to have the agent there and also have title assist- let's not forget I DID in fact advise them it was my first signing. You appear to be the only person who has a problem with it. Again, there is no justification for your rudeness and utter lack of professionalism.

YOU could have made your comment with out being obnoxious- or hey better yet perhaps offered some expertise. I obviously never claimed to know everything that is why I refer you to the measures I took noted above. I do have another signing tomorrow fortunately the borrowers again are okay with my being new. I don't take the signings lightly nor the fact that I'm dealing with important documents for someone's home.

Don't worry I will look at the thread about "new notaries like myself" YOU ACT LIKE WERE A DIFFERENT BREAD OR HAVE SOME DISEASE.
I'm certain you had all the answers when you went out on your first signing right? If I'm snotty and confident why did I lay all the cards on the table asking for help. I ask for a little help and get this...you got to be kidding me. How dare us "new notaries" try to LEARN and step on your toes. You are not setting a good example and I know that in my profession people don't talk down to people like your doing. I would love to see your resume. If your registered here can I look at it? Again, thanks for your support CaliNotary you’re a wonderful example of one can be if they work really hard at being miserable. Maybe I can sign up for one of your classes and learn the basics of what not to be.

Reply by BrendaTX on 11/22/04 6:08am
Msg #11824

JM,

CaliNotary may have come across as too blunt for your liking. But, his blunt logic is usually quite accurate. I have heard him be blunt, but never completely out in left field.

Just please realize that he is giving you an opportunity to learn and to consider your responses among your peers on the forum, and NOT in real time where you will be on the job and have to respond to a hiring entity.

As a newbie to the board, I can understand feeling the sting--been stung myself a time or two. But, feeling the sting is an opportunity to use to your benefit because (a) You'll remember it and the answers regarding this topic, and (b) It'll help toughen your skin. Expect to get stung.

Here is another thought for you: Those of us who are making our full-time living at signing have an investment in seeing that newer notaries realize that whether new, or experienced, we are all painted with the same brush by many who use our services. Cali, as well as myself and others share information to help --- not just you, but our industry's workers as a whole. I.e., to upgrade the quality of notaries in general.

I found that I gained the respect of my more experienced peers quicker (when I started out) by thanking them for the insight before responding in haste and showing my feelings of anger. I would say that the more often you learn to re-channel an angry response (whether the angry response is deserved or not) the faster you'll develop a knack for navigating the personality requirements of our industry.

Believe it or not, CaliNotary does not live to criticize and offers his input to help. But, he's not going to wrap it up in a lot of warm fuzziness every time. However, FWIW, I have surmised he is pretty good at what he does. Seldom does anyone post and say "Your comment on that is blatantly wrong and here is why..."

Hasty replies spoken back in anger are understandable to me, but *my insider tip* is to take the blunt replies you get (and you will get them) and make them work to your advantage. Realize that a blunt reply "here" will prepare you for the harsher ones you will get on the phone from those that are argumentative hiring entities. You'll be prepared with a way to respond and not to react. And, realize, that every time you post, you may get a response you will not like. Ignore it, or thank the poster, would be the best way to stop bringing attention to it.

Whether or not the readers of this believe Victoria Ring (www.50statenotary.com) is a good signing agent, or whether or not, the reader of this likes her, she gave me some of the best advice I have ever had on the business of signing: Never, never, never get angry, whether on a forum, or during a conversation with a person you are working for, or with, in our business. It does not pay.

To become angry upsets you and it gives the person you are talking to a good reason to "write you off." It's better just end the phone call quickly and promise to call right back... or while on the forums, it is better to take a deep breath and say "thank you for that insight" or ignore it.

I understand how you are feeling - been there and done it. But, by using a less argumentative approach with the more experienced NSAs here you'll build an image of professionalism in our business a lot faster.

These are just my "tips" for getting a signing business going faster, and not proposed to be definitive answers.

Good luck and keep posting.

Reply by Brenda/Tx excellent advice on 11/22/04 9:25am
Msg #11839

Re: Have several questions about first signing? RUSH HELP

Reply by calipat on 11/22/04 9:26am
Msg #11840

Sorry for above posting......excellent advice Brenda/Tx n/m

Reply by BrendaTX on 11/22/04 10:37am
Msg #11846

Re: Sorry for above posting......excellent advice Brenda/Tx n/m

Calipat -

Dear friend, you had me going there for a minute. I thought I had started posting in a state of delusion. It was kind of exciting...but, then I lead a very boring little notary life.

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/22/04 12:20pm
Msg #11853

Brenda, we would make an excellent crimefighting team. You're definitely the good cop to my bad cop!

Reply by BrendaTX on 11/22/04 12:42pm
Msg #11856

CaliNotary said: "Brenda, we would make an excellent crimefighting team. You're definitely the good cop to my bad cop!"

Am I a cop? (Maybe I need to go to the doctor.)

I had no idea I was a cop!

But, as with many other professions that seem exciting....I have always wanted to play one on television!

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/22/04 1:04pm
Msg #11860

We can revive Moonlighting. I'll try to start losing my hair and you can get some bad plastic surgery.

Reply by BrendaTX on 11/22/04 2:05pm
Msg #11863

I like that idea...then I'd be playing "something" on television!!!!!

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 11/22/04 8:06am
Msg #11835

A Lesson Learned, JM...

...as I'll never forget the first few months I perused & posted missives on the old NASA message board. I, like you, thought I could "lay all my cards on the table" & would be welcomed for being honest & forthright. I've never been more wrong in my entire life. It's an unfortunate fact of life within the Internet message board world that there'll always be certain individuals who'll take it upon themselves to be the judge, jury, & hangman without knowing all the facts. Only their opinions matter & they'll force it down your throat in the most dispiriting manner they can come up with. Welcome to the Wild, Wild West!

BTW, you've also hit upon another "hot button" of mine as it relates to the current structure of this message board. One of the cardinal rules I adopted long ago (which I've broken a few times...to my regret virtually every time, I might add) is not to respond to posters who won't identify themselves other than the "nom de plume" they post with. They cloak themselves in anonymity which provides them a pseudo bravado they wouldn't have otherwise. To correct that, it's my desire to see Notary Rotary tie the message board to their "Find a Notary" directory. In order to post a message in the forum area you must currently sign in. It's possible now with software technology to link any message posted on the forum with the "author" who's listed in the directory. The end result would the elimination of anonymous postings. Combining that with a moderator who's willing to make some tough choices in the area of "censorship", I'm of the belief more civil discourse would ensue.

This is just my opinion of course & we'll see what kind of discourse results.

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/22/04 12:12pm
Msg #11851

I somehow knew you were going to mention that I was new once. Of course I didn't know all the answers when I was just starting this business. Nor did I say that you should know everything there is to know before you do your first signing. I'm talking about the most basic aspects of this job such as the RTC, how to complete an acknowledgement, etc.

When I was new I went on several signing appointments with an experienced signing agent. I didn't do the signing, I just observed, then asked questions after it was complete. I did this until I felt reasonably sure that I knew what I was doing. I also did this while I was waiting to receive my commission from the Secretary of State's office. By the time it arrived I had already learned the basics of the job and was ready to go out on my own.

Now I realize that not everybody is fortunate enough to be able to go out with another agent, but everybody DOES have other methods available to them to get this basic knowledge. And when somebody comes in here and basically says "I have no idea what I'm doing but I'm already accepting signings" it bugs me for 2 reasons:

1. I'm not sure how it works in every state, but I'm assuming that most, if not all of them work similar to California - that there's some sort of waiting period to receive your notary commission. When somebody is asking ridiculously basic questions after they've landed a signing, that tells me that they squandered a good chunk of time that could have been spent learning how to do this job. It just blows my mind that so many people can't be bothered with this kind of stuff prior to accepting work.

2. If somebody accepts a signing and admits that they don't know "what the hell they're doing" (your words), that tells me that this notary has zero respect for the borrower or the borrower's loan. It tells me that you think your desire to learn this job supercedes the borrower's right to have his loan completed properly and professionally.

So, when I see somebody who (in my opinion) was too lazy to learn how to do this job when they should have been learning it, who freely admits that they have no idea what the hell they're doing, who has no respect for the borrower, and is completely clueless to how their complete lack of knowledge can f*** up a loan and potentially cost the borrower a lot of money, no I'm not going to be sweet and nice and tell them that we were all new once. I'm going to call them on their selfish and unprofessional behavior and hope that they get the message that they shouldn't be doing signings until they DO know what the hell they're doing.

Obviously the way the message is delivered is more important to you than the actual message, so I'll give you one last piece of advice before I'm done with you. Make sure you have a lot of E&O insurance. You just might need it while you're figuring out what the hell you're doing.

Reply by Nd/WA on 11/22/04 5:48am
Msg #11823

JM claimed, "For your information I had the loan agent present at signing, advised the client it was my first one, and I also know the person at title who assisted with the process.

Did you have the RTC dated or you just have them signed and put the date in after you get an answer from the forum? Your LO and person at title doesn't seem like much of an assistant there. It would totally a different situation here had you asked the RTC question before the signing.

I'd take any mean, harsh, and rude responds in this forum as a reality check and a due self assessment. A good mentor would be one who challenge your self esteem, and I think CaliNotary would fit that catagory.

Reply by CarolynCO on 11/21/04 9:39pm
Msg #11813

Have you already gotten your E&O insurance? You really do need to get some training before taking on signings, or someone willing to mentor you in your area. Besides being a new signing agent, are you also a newly commissioned notary?

Sorry if I sound critical, but did you advise the SS that this was your first signing, since it's not your "basic" refi? I know that a site has been posted where you can pull down "dummy" docs from the internet. Maybe someone can come forward and post the address. If you haven't already read all the threads/posts from the very first posting until the last posting, then I strongly suggest you do so. You will gain a ton of information. Make sure you have your printer turned on so you can print off and begin a notebook.

Reply by JM/CA on 11/21/04 10:08pm
Msg #11816

CarolynCO- Thank you for your response. You don't sound critical. I am commissioned and this is all new to me. I do have E&O and I am trying to take all the proper steps. I guess Cali Notary has a different opinion- rude I thought! I have signed up for a loan signing class and having been making calls to try and find a mentor. I also ordered a book on on line- I'm printing stuff off and making a notebook learning all I can. I did advise the SS I was new and also had the loan agent with me- I also know the person at title who assisted as well. Believe me there is no way I would have done it otherwise. I clearly now understand the 3-day RTC. In other lines of business like insurance your 3-days starts to tick from the moment you sign so I wanted clarification so that I don't give the docs back to title all messed up. I will look at the treads- thank you again.

Reply by CarolynCO on 11/22/04 10:03am
Msg #11844

Re: A little more than all messed up docs

JM/CA said "I guess Cali Notary has a different opinion- rude I thought!"

When it comes to teaching me the ropes, I'd certainly want Cali in my corner. Don't ignore Cali's "say it like it is" attitude. Rude - possibly, Blunt - yes, Truth - by all means.

As for you not wanting to give the docs back to the title company *all messed up* -- well, unfortuantely, it's not that simple or cut and dry. If the docs are *all messed up* the title company will do a little more than gently slap your hand. Additionally, if your *all messed up* docs cause the Borrower(s) to lose a low interest rate, the Borrower(s) can have recourse against YOU. Being a signing agent is not as simple as cutting your teeth on Borrower(s) loan docs until you get it right.

Reply by Anonymous on 11/23/04 9:27pm
Msg #11958

Does anyone have the website name of where I can look at "dummy docs" as metioned in the previous posting. Thanks.

Reply by RS/CA on 11/22/04 10:02am
Msg #11843

If you have questions you can e-mail me and I will answer what I can. I have been in your shoes.

Reply by BrendaTX on 11/22/04 10:42am
Msg #11847

Great Idea RS/CA - very thoughtful.

Said RS/CA "If you have questions you can e-mail me and I will answer what I can. I have been in your shoes."


Dear JM -

Take RS/CA up on this. I have emailed other notaries I did not "know" from the board and they were always very generous in helping me out.

I hope notaries know that I welcome an email any time and will try to help them or point them in another direction where they can get help.

If I don't answer your email within 4-6 hrs, it's likely that I am out of pocket, or I have missed it. Re-email me! I never purposely "don't" respond. I get a lot of email from various sources and I could accidently delete it.

Brenda

Reply by Della Elswood on 11/22/04 7:11pm
Msg #11890

Re: Great Idea RS/CA - very thoughtful.

This Indeed is true BrendaTx is VERY helpful!

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 11/22/04 10:17pm
Msg #11904

Go to www.notaryclasses.com and on the front page download the "free Recission Calendar"
includes Nov. & Dec 2004; all of 2005 and Jan.& Feb 2006. Carry it with you at all times.

You need to attach a "Loose Acknowledgment Certificate for the wife: Have her sign the Grant Deed and then staple the loose Certificate under the Grant Deed. Fill out the "bottom part of the loose Certificate.

You must get more training as you can cause yourself a "financial disaster" if you make mistakes on the Notary Certificates on a loan!!

If I were you I would find a notary on this website (notaryrotary) that lives close to you and offer to give him/her all the money for this signing if they will come with you to this signing.

Your 2nd loan you will doing is difficult and I don't think you have a clue how tricky of a situation you are in.

On top of this you have a divorced couple and those in the best of times are chancy!!