Posted by Angie on 11/29/04 8:54pm
Msg #12253
Notarized or Not?
I have a Form of ID Affidavit/Mortgagors form that I completed showing the Ca. Driver's License # and ssn as proof of ID at the bottom it reads
"in witness whereof,I herunto set my hand and official seals"
Then a line with Notary Public, so I signed on the line, but do I stamp it?
| Reply by BrendaTX on 11/29/04 8:58pm
Msg #12254
Angie,
Bear in mind that I am in Texas and you are probably in CA.
(BTW, it will help you get answers if you post with AngieCA if that's the state you are in.)
If, and only if, the certificate you refer to complies with your notarial acts according to your laws in your state, and the line where you are signing says "Notary Public" underneath it, then IMHO you should stamp it.
Brenda
| Reply by HisHughness on 11/29/04 10:23pm
Msg #12262
She can't certify her own signature, Brenda. You must not have understood the question.
| Reply by BrendaTX on 11/29/04 10:54pm
Msg #12264
My answer was:
"If, and only if, the certificate you refer to complies with your notarial acts according to your laws in your state, and the line where you are signing says "Notary Public" underneath it, then IMHO you should stamp it."
Not to be flip, Hughness, but I referred her back to her notarial certificate *compliance by her state's law* because I am still not clear if there are states that NEVER allow this type of notarization.
I have not heard some of the more active states come out as clearly as I have about the fact that I will not do it.
(Think back to another post I made regarding this a month or so ago.)
| Reply by HisHughness on 11/29/04 10:22pm
Msg #12261
Angie asks?
***I have a Form of ID Affidavit/Mortgagors form that I completed showing the Ca. Driver's License # and ssn as proof of ID at the bottom it reads
"in witness whereof,I herunto set my hand and official seals"
Then a line with Notary Public, so I signed on the line, but do I stamp it?***
Get those all the time. I just change it to read that I certify I have inspected the ID. No seal. No formal notary certification.
| Reply by Jon on 11/29/04 10:39pm
Msg #12263
Just as a side note, in Ca you cannot use the title "Notary Public" for anything other than "the purpose of rendering notarial service."(Gov Code 8207) When you are signing for the verification of ID and the like, use a title like "Signing Agent", since that is not within the realm of your notarial duties.
| Reply by Ted_MI on 11/29/04 10:58pm
Msg #12266
So Angie, i guess all of this begs the question - what state are you in?
| Reply by Angie on 11/30/04 10:57am
Msg #12300
Re: Notarize or Not? Another question posed
Hi,
Okay everyone, great stuff. Yes I am in California. Yes it is a Nationwide, Citibank. And yes at the very top of the form it reads..On this the____day of ____, 20___, before me_______ a notary public, the undersigned officer, personally appeared the following:
_________________(mortgagor's Name)
_________________(Co-Mortgagor's Name)
Known to me (or satisfactorily proven) to be the person_ whose name___he_subscribed to the winthin insstrument, and acknowledged that _he_executed the same for the purposes therein contained.
Mortgagor's Proof of Id was provided using:
_State Photo Drivers license_State Phote I>D>_other_
Name as shown on ID______________-IDNumber
etc.
Then at the bottom, is where it reads:
In witness whereof, I hereunto set my hand and official seals.
Okay, PLEASE ANSWERE THE ABOVE FIRST,
then....here's another situation...
The guys name is Peabody S.Somebody, the right to cancel reads and Peabody Somebody who took title as Peabody S Somebody... I've identified him on his California Driver's license as Peabody Someday Somebody. The deed of trust reads the same Peabody Somebody who took tile as Peabody S Somebody.
How does he sign either doc as Peabody Somebody or Peabody S Somebody????
Thanks everyone....
| Reply by Glena/NV on 11/30/04 1:03am
Msg #12279
Is this a Nationwide document (Citibank)?
If it is, yes you do. I you notice, the wordings at the begining of the form shows:
State of _________
County of____________
On this _____day of ____________, 20____before me, ___________________, a notary public personally appeared the following:
_________________________________________(Mortgagor's name)
_________________________________________(Co-Mortgaor's name)
known to me (or satisfactorily proven) to be the person_____whose name___ __he__subscribed to the within instrument, and acknowledged that __he__ executed the same for the purpose herein contained.
That is the notarial wording. You need to edit it to comply with your state requirement, but that is an acknowledgement certificate and yes, you do need to affix your stamp.
| Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 11/30/04 6:58am
Msg #12286
You're on the Right Track on This, Glena...
...as I believe Angie is describing the form Nationwide Title includes in all of their CitiBank HELOC loan packages. I initially had some reservations about placing my notary seal on this doc until I faxed a copy of it to our MO SOS office. They advised since the borrowers are placing their signatures on the form it IS an acknowledgment. As Glena said, you can change the certificate wording to reflect your individual state's requirements. JMHO without physically looking at the original document Angie is referencing. If it's not the same form, then all bets are off!
| Reply by BrendaTX on 11/30/04 7:42am
Msg #12289
Dennis - Can any state???
Dennis - Great advice about sending it in to the MO SOS.
I am pretty certain that I "know" MO would not allow for a notarization without a signature. other than the notary's, however, my question is:
Is there any state wherein a notary may place a stamp "certifying" they have seen ID, or certifying they have done other acts??
I have asked this question before and would like to open it up again for discussion. Usually when I ask this, my question gets ignored.
There are a few title companies who routinely send us this type of "ID Affidavit" or whatever they call it, and no matter how many notaries refuse to notarize it that way, it always resurfaces.
With your input on this, Dennis, perhaps we can get some participation on this question.
Thanks, Brenda
| Reply by sue on 11/30/04 8:05am
Msg #12290
Re: Dennis - Can any state???
Brenda, in Pennsylvania we can certify. I can certify that I've seen ID, I can certify that someone has appeared before me, I can even certify that Dennis loves the Jayhawks. I'm the only one that signs the certification BUT, I also am the one certifying the truthfulness of the statement so I've got to be very careful what I certify and how it's worded.
| Reply by BrendaTX on 11/30/04 8:32am
Msg #12292
Re: Dennis - Can any state???
sue clarified some of the confusion I had:
"Brenda, in Pennsylvania we can certify. I can certify that I've seen ID, I can certify that someone has appeared before me, I can even certify that Dennis loves the Jayhawks. I'm the only one that signs the certification BUT, I also am the one certifying the truthfulness of the statement so I've got to be very careful what I certify and how it's worded.
Thanks, sue. So, on these types of notarial acts, another signature would not appear? Is that correct?
| Reply by Glena/NV on 11/30/04 9:47am
Msg #12294
Re: Dennis - Can any state???
In Nevada, we can certify copies of original documents and you could affix your stamp, and "No", the borrowers do not have to sign. Sometimes, I encounter a document that says,"I certify that I have seen or investigated the original ID belonging to the borrower". I normally just sign it without notarizing it.
| Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 11/30/04 9:46am
Msg #12293
Now You're After My Heart, Sue...
...when you refer to my beloved Jayhawks in a "certified" manner!
As far as "certifying" goes in the State of MO, our Notary handbook states: "Notary law allows a Notary Public to certify a copy of an original document if the Notary receives a signed written request stating the certified copy or facsimile, preparation of a copy or certification of a copy of the document does not violate any state or federal law. DO NOT CERTIFY ANY COPIES OF DOCUMENT WHICH STATE ON THE FACE OF THE DOCUMENT THEY CANNOT BE REPRODUCED. You are required by law to keep a copy of the document you have certified.". However "certifying a document" is NOT the same as certifying on a form that I've viewed someone's ID, that I LOVE MY JAYHAWKS (at least in basketball anyway!), etc, etc & then place my notary seal on that document. I just placed a call to our MO SOS & they advise the ONLY circumstances under which a Notary may place his/her seal on a document is when wording for a jurat Notary certificate, acknowledgment Notary certificate, or a certified copy of a document are present. In other words it's a NO CAN DO in the State of Missouri.
| Reply by BrendaTX on 11/30/04 9:57am
Msg #12295
What Texas CAN Do
We CAN certify a non-recordable document without a signature.
There is nothing in my notarial rules that allow for certifying that I KNOW a certain thing is true, or that a certain thing took place, or that I CERTIFY that I have seen a document.
This may be overkill on the non-recordable document certification, but to clarify further, since a TDL is a document recorded by the government, and the same goes for for SS Cards, I cannot even make a copy of this and certify that it's a copy of the same.
In other words, I have no directives in my laws that I can interpret to be attaching a notarial Jurat or Acknowledgment, or any other notarial action without a signature of another person besides the notary except for Certifying a Non-Recordable Document.
An example of a non-recordable document would be a HUD-1.
| Reply by BrendaTX on 11/30/04 10:07am
Msg #12297
Re: What Texas CAN Do
I said above: "In other words, I have no directives in my laws that I can interpret to be attaching a notarial Jurat or Acknowledgment, or any other notarial action without a signature of another person besides the notary except for Certifying a Non-Recordable Document. "
To be accurate, however, Here's what Texas Notaries need to adhere to:
Sample Forms:
In the following examples a personalized seal means: the words "Notary Public, State of Texas" around a star of five points, the Notary Public's name, and the date the Notary Public's commission expires.
ACKNOWLEDGMENTS
I. Form for Ordinary Certificate of Acknowledgment
State of Texas
County of _______________
Before me, (insert the name and character of the officer), on this day personally appeared ____________________, known to me (or proved to me on the oath of ______________ or through (description of identity card or other document)) to be the person whose name is subscribed to the foregoing instrument and acknowledged to me that he executed the same for the purposes and consideration therein expressed.
Given under my hand and seal of office this __________ day of __________, (year).
______________________
Notary Public's Signature
(Personalized Seal)
II. Short Forms
A. For a natural person acting in his/her own right:
State of Texas
County of _______________
This instrument was acknowledged before me on (date) by (name or names of person or persons acknowledging).
______________________
Notary Public's Signature
(Personalized Seal)
B. For a natural person as principal acting by attorney-in-fact:
State of Texas
County of _______________
This instrument was acknowledged before me on (date) by (name of attorney-in-fact) as attorney-in-fact on behalf of (name of principal).
______________________
Notary Public's Signature
(Personalized Seal)
C. For a partnership acting by one or more partners:
State of Texas
County of _______________
This instrument was acknowledged before me on (date) by (name of acknowledging partner or partners), partner(s) on behalf of (name of partnership), a partnership.
______________________
Notary Public's Signature
(Personalized Seal)
D. For a corporation:
State of Texas
County of _______________
This instrument was acknowledged before me on (date) by (name of officer), (title of officer) of (name of corporation acknowledging), a (state of incorporation) corporation, on behalf of said corporation.
______________________
Notary Public's Signature
(Personalized Seal)
E. For a public officer, trustee, executor, administrator, guardian, or other representative:
State of Texas
County of _______________
This instrument was acknowledged before me on (date) by (name of representative) as (title of representative) of (name of entity or person represented)
______________________
Notary Public's Signature
(Personalized Seal)
F. Form of Certificate for Proof by Witness
State of Texas
County of _______________
Before me, (insert the name and character of the officer), on this day personally appeared ____________________, known to me (or proved to me on the oath of ______________), to be the person whose name is subscribed as a witness to the foregoing instrument of writing, and after being duly sworn by me stated on oath that he saw _______, the grantor or person who executed the foregoing instrument, subscribe the same (or that the grantor or person who executed such instrument of writing acknowledged in his presence that he had executed the same for the purposes and consideration therein expressed), and that he had signed the same as a witness at the request of the grantor (or person who executed the same.)
Given under my hand and seal of office this __________ day of __________, (year).
______________________
Notary Public's Signature
(Personalized Seal)
JURAT
State of Texas
County of _______________
Sworn to and subscribed before me on the __________ day of _______________, (year), by (name of signer).
______________________
Notary Public's Signature
(Personalized Seal)
VERIFICATIONS
Form 1:
State of Texas
County of _______________
_______________, personally appeared before me, and being first duly sworn declared that he/she signed this application in the capacity designated, if any, and further states that he/she has read the above application and the statements therein contained are true.
______________________
Notary Public's Signature
(Personalized Seal)
Form 2:
State of Texas
County of _______________
Before me, a notary public, on this day personally appeared _______________, known to me to be the person whose name is subscribed to the foregoing document and, being by me first duly sworn, declared that the statements therein contained are true and correct.
______________________
Notary Public's Signature
(Personalized Seal)
OATH OR AFFIRMATION
State of Texas
County of _______________
I, (affiant), do solemnly swear (or affirm), that I will faithfully execute the duties of the office of ___________________ of the State of Texas, and will to the best of my ability preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States and of this State, so help me God.
_____________________
Signature of Affiant
Sworn to and subscribed before me by (affiant) on this __________ day of _______________, (year).
______________________
Notary Public's Signature
(Personalized Seal)
STATEMENT OF OFFICER
I, (affiant), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I have not directly or indirectly paid, offered, promised to pay, contributed, or promised to contribute any money or thing of value, or promised any public office or employment for the giving or withholding of a vote at the election at which I was elected or as a reward to secure my appointment or confirmation, whichever the case may be, so help me God.
UNDER PENALTIES OF PERJURY, I DECLARE THAT I HAVE READ THE FOREGOING STATEMENT AND THAT THE FACTS STATED THEREIN ARE TRUE.
_____________________
Date
_____________________
Affiant's Signature
DEPOSITION
Certificate to Deposition Upon Written Questions
State of Texas
County of _______________
(Plaintiff)
v.
(Defendant)
)
)
)
In the __________ Court
of __________ County, Texas
Cause No. __________
I hereby certify that the foregoing answers of __________, the witness forenamed, were signed and sworn to before me on (date), by said witness.
______________________
Notary Public's Signature
(Personalized Seal)
PROTESTS
(Insert bill or note or copy thereof)
United States of America
State of Texas
County of _______________
Be it known that on the __________ day of __________, (year), at the request of (name), of __________, I, (Notary Public's name), a Notary Public duly commissioned and sworn, residing in __________ County, Texas, did present the original (instrument), hereto attached, for $__________, with accrued interest thereon of $__________, dated __________, and demanded payment (or acceptance) thereof, which was refused.
Whereupon I, at the request of the aforesaid __________, did protest, and by these presents do protest, as well against the drawer, maker, endorsers, and acceptors of said instruments as against all others whom it may concern, for exchange, costs, charges, damages, and interest already incurred and hereinafter to be incurred by reason of non-payment thereof. I further certify that on (date), notice in writing of the foregoing presentment, demand, refusal and protest was given by (persons and status) by depositing notices thereof in the post office at __________, Texas, postage paid, directed as follows: ____________________. I further certify that notices were left as follows:
Notice left for _______________ at _______________
Notice left for _______________ at _______________
Each of the named places the reputed place of residence of the person for whom the notice was left.
In testimony whereof I have hereunto set my hand and affixed my seal of office at __________, Texas, on __________ day of __________, (year).
______________________
Notary Public's Signature
(Personalized Seal)
(List fees and expenses to include postage)
CERTIFIED COPY OF A NON-RECORDABLE DOCUMENT
State of Texas
County of _______________
On this __________ day of __________, (year), I certify that the preceding or attached document, and the duplicate retained by me as a notarial record, are true, exact, complete, and unaltered photocopies made by me of (description of document), presented to me by the document's custodian, _______________, (*held in my custody as a notarial record) and that, to the best of my knowledge, the photocopied document is neither a public record nor a publicly recordable document, certified copies of which are available from an official source other than a notary.
______________________
Notary Public's Signature
(Personalized Seal)
*This phrase would be inserted and the proceeding phrase, "presented to me by the document's custodian", would be deleted in the event a person was requesting a certified copy of the Notary Public's journal.
| Reply by Brenda Stone on 11/30/04 10:09am
Msg #12298
I know the above is long BUT
I had already made statements that I felt needed to be CLEARLY clarified.
Sorry, but that's the only way I felt I could save the agony of explaining my statements later, or misleading someone.
| Reply by Angie on 11/30/04 11:04am
Msg #12303
Re: Is this a Nationwide document (Citibank)?
Okay, somebody out there wins the prize.
Since the form is asking me to ID the person, then if I were to notarize it I would be notarizing myself...
So NO I do not notarize it (at least not in California).
Thanks everyone!
| Reply by AngieCA on 11/30/04 11:33am
Msg #12306
Re: Is this a Nationwide document (Citibank)?
Thanks the answer was that No I do not notarize. This is because I am the one making the statement that I have identified so and so...therefore I'd be notarizing for myself, just as HisHughness said...( I called the NNA HOTLINE).
then....here's another situation...
The guys name is Peabody S.Somebody, the right to cancel reads and Peabody Somebody who took title as Peabody S Somebody... I've identified him on his California Driver's license as Peabody Someday Somebody. The deed of trust reads the same Peabody Somebody who took tile as Peabody S Somebody.
How does he sign either doc, as Peabody Somebody or Peabody S Somebody????
| Reply by Joan-OH on 11/30/04 1:24pm
Msg #12316
Peabody
Peabody Somebody who took tile as Peabody S Somebody
Peabody Somebody WTTA Peabody S Somebody
| Reply by Eliz/CA on 11/30/04 2:45pm
Msg #12322
Re: Is this a Nationwide document (Citibank)?
Always sign exactly as it was printed.
| Reply by CaliNotary on 11/30/04 12:31pm
Msg #12309
Re: Is this a Nationwide document (Citibank)?
I don't think this is correct. You're not notarizing your own signature, you're notarizing the signature of the borrowers who sign this form. The "In withness whereof...." line is the notariziation signature line, not the line for you to sign to verify the ID. Since you're in CA you don't sign that line but attach a CA wording acknowledgement.
| Reply by AngieCA on 11/30/04 12:50pm
Msg #12310
Re: Is this a Nationwide document (Citibank)?
I read the entire content to the NNA hotline representative. This affadavit is about me, that I am witnessing proof that I, identified their identity using the appropriate identification methods. Therefore I cannot certify something regarding myself.
Does that make sense? I change the words Notary Public to Signing Agent.
| Reply by Eliz/CA on 11/30/04 2:43pm
Msg #12321
Re: Is this a Nationwide document (Citibank)?
Per NASCO, if you attached a copy of the borrower's ID you don't have to complete the form.
| Reply by BrendaTX on 11/30/04 3:22pm
Msg #12327
Re: Is this a Nationwide document (Citibank)?
Eliz/CA demurely murmurs:
"Per NASCO, if you attached a copy of the borrower's ID you don't have to complete the form."
Ms. E: You need to start tuning in a little bit earlier everyday! I cannot even remember the particulars now, but if this was the answer, you could have saved a lot of trouble if you'd just been monitoring this board and gotten on top of this around 10 am.
This thread required quite a bit of notary posting. Harry had to bring out the gasoline generator to keep the server properly supplied with power. I know he did not mind, but still, it's so loud!
| Reply by Eliz/CA on 12/4/04 4:21pm
Msg #12727
Re: Is this a Nationwide document (Citibank)?
It takes some time to keep up with these boards (especially when you miss more than a day) and I'm a member of only 2 - the other is the Signing Registry.
I had to refer back to these postings today because the borrower's copy did not show the id# legibly. In this case, I had to complete the ID Affidavit. I will line out the notarial wordings and attach an all-purpose ACK. Unfortunately, I don't have a digital camera. Well! actually, I have one (that I got for free after purchasing a HP3380 printer) but I haven't figured out how to use it. So much stuff to read! It's a Mikona DV-8....it looks cheap.
| Reply by CaliNotary on 11/30/04 4:25pm
Msg #12344
Re: Is this a Nationwide document (Citibank)?
The NNA is notorious for giving incorrect information to their members. I definitely would not recommend using their hotline reps as a definitive source of answers.
I'm still not sure why you think you're certifying something regarding yourself. I think the confusion may be because it's not the California wording on the acknowledgement? The borrowers sign the affadavit, they're stating that the ID information is accurate. You're notarizing their signature. At least that's my interpretation of it.
| Reply by Eliz/CA on 12/4/04 9:28pm
Msg #12730
Re: Is this a Nationwide document (Citibank)?
I did get paid from NASCO in full on orders where I didn't complete the ID Affidavit but included a copy of the ID. The rep told me it was a new policy.
| Reply by CarolynCO on 11/30/04 9:24pm
Msg #12381
Re: Is this a Nationwide document (Citibank)?
I've had some forms where the Borrower(s) signed and I notarized *their* signature. However, I've had some forms that are almost identical, except that the Borrower(s) don't sign and instead it states that by signing, I've verified the ID's, blah, blah, blah and that the notarization is for *my* signature. For those I don't and won't notarize because I would be notarizing my own signature, which can't be done. I can't remember where I found the following blurb that I use, but it has always been accepted, or at least I've never been questioned about it: "I cannot notarize myself, and the Borrowers are not acknowledging or swearing to anything on this document. I have, however, signed stated that I did see proper ID and concur with the above information."
| Reply by BrendaTX on 11/30/04 1:06pm
Msg #12312
For this Dense Texan...
One Question: Do the borrowers sign this document?
(Some require it, some don't.)
You've got all the answers you need already, I just want to know for my own understanding about what the NNA advised.
If you get bad feedback regarding their advice, here's mine...the only other place to go for answers is your SOS.
I commend you for attempting to locate good solid information.
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