Posted by Anonymous on 10/6/04 9:23pm
Msg #9467

If you want to collect past due funds...

Hi. Fortunately I haven't had any payment issues as yet, but I do have a S/A friend who did, and who actually did this to get his money. The next time the deliquent company calls you for a signing, TAKE IT. When it comes time to phone/fax in the closing information, you very sweetly inform them that they will NOT be receiving their documents back UNTIL they cut you a check for the amount owed. My friend told them that if he didn't receive his past due fees, OVERNIGHTED to his office, by 11:00 am, he would dump all their docs in the shredder. They paid. He never worked for them again, and laughed all the way to the bank. Something to consider. Thanx everyone, for all the helpful information...

Reply by Julie on 10/6/04 9:30pm
Msg #9469

What about the possible liability your S/A friend exposed himself to if he really hadn't returned the docs and the loan fell through??

Reply by anonymous on 10/6/04 9:38pm
Msg #9470

It is against the law to take a closing and not return the documents. Not only can you be sued by the Mortgage company, the borrower can sue you if you deliberately with held these documents and caused their loan not to fund. The SS has your info on file. I would not even think of doing that. Something to think about in the future. Not professional at all.

Reply by Anonymous on 10/6/04 10:07pm
Msg #9474

And what law would that be?

Reply by Anonymous on 10/6/04 9:39pm
Msg #9471

I thought about that too, you're right, but he said the burden of proof was on THEM. "Prove I had them in the first place"...he never signed for the docs when they were delivered, so they couldn't prove he even got them. Or, "prove that I destroyed them..." All I know for sure is that it worked for him.

Reply by Anonymous on 10/6/04 9:41pm
Msg #9472

The bluff factor could actually work. Either way, it's a funny story. Thanks for posting it!

Reply by CarolynCO on 10/7/04 8:33am
Msg #9489

**burden of proof was on THEM. "Prove I had them in the first place"...he never signed for the docs when they were delivered, so they couldn't prove he even got them. Or, "prove that I destroyed them..." **

This is asinine thought reasoning. What are the borrowers going to say? - "well, we *thought* we signed the docs, and we even have a copy, but apparently it must have all been a figment of our imagination."

Reply by BrendaTX on 10/6/04 10:24pm
Msg #9476

Anonymous has shared: "The next time the deliquent company calls you for a signing, TAKE IT. When it comes time to phone/fax in the closing information, you very sweetly inform them that they will NOT be receiving their documents back UNTIL they cut you a check for the amount owed. My friend told them that if he didn't receive his past due fees, OVERNIGHTED to his office, by 11:00 am, he would dump all their docs in the shredder. They paid. He never worked for them again, and laughed all the way to the bank. Something to consider. Thanx everyone, for all the helpful information..."
----------------------------

All Texas Notaries should employ this collection method immediately! (Except for me, of course, because I'd like to keep my commission and keep working.)

-----------------------------

All of the above is the WORST advisory/suggestion for notaries I have seen yet.


Thank you, Anonymous, for this insightful glimpse into committing an act of moral turpitude.

Reply by Della-Ca on 10/6/04 10:55pm
Msg #9478

Anonymous are you for real??
Are you talking to yourself or are there two diff. Anonymous talking here?
I'm a new notary and know better than to do what your suggesting.

Reply by HisHughness on 10/6/04 11:00pm
Msg #9480

Anonymous has suggested that signing agents owed a fee from a previous closing hold onto the documents for a future closing until they get a check for the first signing.

I assume, because of the nature of your post, that you are a neophyte signing agent. No experienced agent would ever do something that vicicous to the borrower, who had nothing to do with the fee not being paid. It is also unethical, and is actionable -- you could be sued.

Had you done what is recommended for neophytes -- go to the first posting on this board and read through to the last -- you would have discovered with what revulsion experienced and ethical signing agents view such conduct. This is not the first time this approach to collecting fees has been suggested. Regrettably, with so many untrained signing agents coming into the field, I fear it will not be the last.

Reply by Loretta Reed on 10/7/04 7:00am
Msg #9485

I couldn't use this tactic myself. However, I have thought about it a few times. Why take it out on the borrowers. Maybe I'll just find the dead beat signing service and pluck their nose hairs. They wouldn't cheat a notary after that. haha

Reply by CarolynCO on 10/7/04 8:26am
Msg #9487

Anonymous said "The next time the deliquent company calls you for a signing, TAKE IT. When it comes time to phone/fax in the closing information, you very sweetly inform them that they will NOT be receiving their documents back UNTIL they cut you a check for the amount owed. My friend told them that if he didn't receive his past due fees, OVERNIGHTED to his office, by 11:00 am, he would dump all their docs in the shredder. They paid. He never worked for them again, and laughed all the way to the bank. Something to consider. "

You are forgetting the most important people in this picture -- the BORROWERS who stand to be the ones shafted in situations like this.

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 10/7/04 9:49am
Msg #9494

>>>You are forgetting the most important people in this picture -- the BORROWERS who stand to be the ones shafted in situations like this.<<<

Then the borrowers will become the shaftor and the NSA will be the shaftee. And all the E&O insurance and notary bonds won't help the NSA remove the shaft either.

Reply by Curious George on 10/7/04 10:53am
Msg #9498


I'm surprised that this thread even got this many responses.....Who ever posted it is clearly unprofessional, most likely a young kid new to the business who has no ethics whatsoever. To post anonymously is most likely because this person knows what a moronic decision it is to do business in this way.

I say go waste other peoples time on some "intro to professional ethics chat room on AOL!" because you aren't going to be in this business very long.

Oh Yeah, and have a great day!

~Anthony
Oregon

Reply by Butterfly on 10/7/04 9:01am
Msg #9492

SCAM by (?) SS

After reading this post I realized this is not a Notary. This is someone either getting jollies from putting is their two cents worth or an SS lashing out at Notaries in general.

A day or two ago there was a posting that most thought must have come from an SS as well($600 turned into $3,00) I am thinking this one is as well.

Reply by Mobile Closing Services on 10/7/04 9:16am
Msg #9493

That's just punishing the borrower, it's not their fault their lender is dealing with a shady title company and or, signing company. I have over 200 notaries in my data base and all of them trust me to go after their money - sometimes it can take longer than anticipated - but they all know that I'm on top of it.

I think keeping the lines of communication open is the key - between yourself and your clients.

Reply by Butterfly on 10/7/04 10:06am
Msg #9497

HOAX, check out Go Mobile Notary.com

Hello,

Was just on Go Mobile Notary and guess who Anonymous is...... go check out the post and the strings, I could not believe what I read.

Reply by HisHughness on 10/7/04 1:10pm
Msg #9504

Re: HOAX, check out Go Mobile Notary.com

Butterfly, I could find no thread on GMN pertaining to the identity of Anonymous. Could you give a topic title, perhaps?

Reply by Butterfly on 10/7/04 1:36pm
Msg #9506

Re: HOAX, check out Go Mobile Notary.com

Oops sorry,

The subject is "Getting down to business".

Reply by CarolynCO on 10/7/04 2:28pm
Msg #9508

Re: HOAX, check out Go Mobile Notary.com

**The subject is "Getting down to business".""

The thread must have been removed. I've been gone for about 4 hours and just returned, so I have no idea what transpired after my *personal observation only* that it was a marketing/press release scheme.

Reply by BrendaTX on 10/7/04 2:35pm
Msg #9509

Re: HOAX, check out Go Mobile Notary.com

I read what you posted there C, and I have to say, you are one sharp cookie. I won't say that you are not right about it, but I do not know the orignal poster and will not say because others seem to say no...It sure seems a viable solution to the reasoning of the whole crazy thing. The original poster is, without a doubt a marketing savant...just my thoughts.

B

Reply by Butterfly on 10/7/04 2:53pm
Msg #9511

Re: HOAX, check out Go Mobile Notary.com

CarolynCO,

I checked as well and it was gone. Quite a bit of replys. Don't quote me but, it has to do with Joan and Cheryl and their book on how to make 50 - 100k per year? It was bait and they were fishing for feedback. A couple people really slammed back on them for doing this. I bet this was deleted due to the bait and switch.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/7/04 5:04pm
Msg #9518

Re: HOAX, check out Go Mobile Notary.com

Ok - the thread on GMN was deleted by request! It was getting out of hand, and one of the posters, who posted under a couple of names, posted another message that was downright libelous. I contacted Keith to have the message removed. He called Cheryl and asked her if she wanted it and the other thread removed. So, it wasn't removed due to any "bait and switch" but because of a request.

Cheryl posed the original question to see what kind of response she would get.
No-where did she try and sell her book, so it was not a blatant marketing trick.

The book "How to be a wildly successful signing agent" is an excellent book and is, from what hear, selling very well. I wish it had been around when I started doing signings. Even though the notary info in it is more geared to CA signing agents, it is still an excellent source for those in other states.

Oh - I don't stand to gain anything for recommending the book. I have nothing to do with it. And Joan and Cheryl are only two of the authors.

Reply by Roger/OH on 10/7/04 6:08pm
Msg #9520

OK Sylvia, please enlighten us...

So exactly WHAT was she trying to accomplish by using us as guinea pigs and seeing our reactions?? That "hostage docs" topic has come up several times and has always been condemned by posters. What was the purpose of her coming off as unethical?

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/7/04 7:59pm
Msg #9528

Re: OK Sylvia, please enlighten us...

That is a question you would have to ask Cheryl.

Reply by Roger/OH on 10/7/04 8:36pm
Msg #9532

Re: OK Sylvia, please enlighten us...

I posed the question to you since you stated in your post she did it to get reactions, and thought you might be aware of the rationale behind it.

What did you think about what she did?

Reply by Joan-OH on 10/7/04 9:44pm
Msg #9533

Re: OK Sylvia, please enlighten us...

Not Sylvia, but I have been reading Cheryl's posts long enough to KNOW this is something she would NEVER DO and was just putting it out there to see what others thought of this scenario. I was glad to see everone was horrified at the suggestion of holding the docs hostage and I don't recall anyone saying it was a good idea. Believe me, if someone said "Hey, great idea!" it would have gotten much uglier than it did.

Had you, Sylvia, Paul, Hugh and other "oldies" written the same post that Cheryl did, I would have gotten the same impression. It is something that I just know you or the others wouldn't do and were just putting it out there to get peoples reactions. In the end, after reading that post, the newbies would learn that holding docs hostage is something you should NEVER do.

Joan-OH

Reply by CarolynCO on 10/7/04 10:41pm
Msg #9542

Re: OK Sylvia, please enlighten us...

**I don't recall anyone saying it was a good idea.**

But, bascially Cheryl did in her original post -- whether it was to get reactions and feedback or whatever reason, GMN can get heated enough on its own without instigating peoples anger and then coming back to say I just wanted to get everyone's reactions and glad no one agrees with holding docs.

Reply by BrendaTX on 10/8/04 1:34am
Msg #9549

Grassy Knoll and Conspiracy Theory Transcript

Cheryl's post said, as best as I can recall: "this seems like a good thing for us to put consideration into." and maybe "what do you think?

When I read Cheryl's post I swear I did not realize it was the WSSA Book Co-Author. I have the book, but I associate Joan with it and forget that Cheryl is the other stated Co-author.

First thoughts...
(a) she's a whack job OR
(b) What's with this?? Is this Cheryl woman "Wise Teacher" and we "Eager Pupil" ????

I read the reply/rant...
Next, I thought: Hmmm, no one gets that engaged in a rant toward another notary without (a) the mind of an ax murderer OR (b) passionately motivated obsession

I read Sylvia's post. / cheryl's response / and the second rant...
Then, I realized the spelling and syntax was very good, darn near perfect even while ranting...hmmm. Man that was quick, all done up in HTML and and in excellent presentation for such a rant.

Next, Cheryl posts that she would invite the poster "name or name" to her signing agent class she is teaching and waive the fee but they would not know how to act nicely.

I did not think much about her post, but I did wonder about The Ranter...Being one who loves psychology ... and wondering always what motivates people to certain behaviors.

I read Carolyn's post thinking Carolyn's got "Notary Forum Paranoia" (NFP), blew off her theory, and then I wrote a reply post to The Ranter asking why take so much trouble to stomp on a person who is merely annoying you?? Why are you so emotionally engaged with this notary...what buttons of yours has she pushed?

Then...the post was gone and I will never know the truth or write the great American novel "The Ranter's Passions."

After mourning that loss and thinking about it, I realized that Carolyn had good reason to post what she did. (I am in group therapy for NFP as you all suspected.)

Not sure what to think. But, that was a pretty good trick if that was, in fact, what it was.

Sylvia told me how...ha ha Paul.

Reply by CarolynCO on 10/8/04 7:42am
Msg #9553

Re: Grassy Knoll and Conspiracy Theory Transcript

**"this seems like a good thing for us to put consideration into." **


AHHHH, one of the problems with with e-mails and internet communications -- you can't see emotions - facial or verbal, and written words can mean something different to different people. I took *good thing* and *consideration* to mean she was saying, hey, this might work, and a handful of other people initially took it the same way. I never thought about taking it as *considering the implications* of such an action, although some could have taken it that way ... then came along the red 26 pt. or so HTML post that had to have taken *someone* not only a lot of thought but time and effort, or *someone* who can think and write a lot faster than me, which immediately shouted to me FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE material, because one of the best marketing strategies is to do or say the unexpected -- and what better way than to say *I* am a fraud.

Maybe you can invite me to your next NFP session.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/7/04 10:04pm
Msg #9540

Re: OK Sylvia, please enlighten us...

Hmm what do I think about what she did??

First,let me say as I have already stated, I do have a lot of respect for Cheryl.
BUT IMHO I don't think it was very wise to have made the post, given the "caliber" of a lot of notaries that post on the GMN board, she was opening herself up to the kind of reaction she got from a few of the posters.

I was pleased to see though that the responders thought it was unethical to hold docs hostage etc.

Reply by Shirley/Ca on 10/8/04 12:38am
Msg #9546

Re: OK Sylvia, please enlighten us...

I used to have a good opinion of Cheryl but after reading her Killer collection letter and cumulative invoice faxing ideas I was only a little surprised to hear this latest one. I thought she was serious. She said herself she was being "frank". As far as the question of holding the docs that has nothing to do with loan signing procedures. It is a question of ethics. And as far as the caliber of notaries on GMN I consider myself to be of a fairly decent caliber and I really didn't like the way I felt after her posting that idea as serious and then when it didn't go over coming back and saying it was just a test or whatever.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/8/04 6:44am
Msg #9551

Re: OK Sylvia, please enlighten us...

Shirley
Regarding the caliber of notaries on GMN, you have to agree that there are a lot of "poor" calber notaries on there, look at all the "anonymous" posts, the"nasty" posts etc. the very basic notary questions, I recall the "what is a jurat" and "how can I tell a jurat" questions, very basic questions that every notary should know - we normally only deal with two certificates,an acknowledgment and a jurat, so for a commissioned notary not to know that says a lot about the caliber of that notary.

Reply by Shirley/CA on 10/8/04 9:42am
Msg #9559

Re: OK Sylvia, please enlighten us...

The way I read your comment about the caliber of notaries above was that you meant that she got blasted because that's what you can expect from the low caliber of notaries on GMN. One does not need to know anything about acks or jurats to know that what she suggested was wrong. The GMN notaries responded accordingly. Then she said No I didn't mean it. Now either she is lying to save herself or she was just testing us for a reaction as she said. Nobody likes to be lied to or to be tricked whichever way they take it. And the GMN notaries responded accordingly.

Reply by Butterfly on 10/8/04 11:52am
Msg #9563

Re: OK Sylvia, please enlighten us...

Right on. Personally I do not think this should have been put in the space. Who or what was it serving? Nada! It was placed there to cause the result it received.

The board is established to help one another not pit one against the other.

I am here to learn, teach, and support. I hope others feel the same way.

By the way, "THANK YOU!" Hugh, Silvia, Brenda, just to name a few (sorry can not remember everyones name, but you know who you are for all the wonderful information you deliver to this board. This is goes to show there are WONDERFUL people in this world kind enough to help others and not requesting to get paid. By the way you would be worth every penny spent!

Have a great week-end

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/8/04 12:20pm
Msg #9566

Re: OK Sylvia, please enlighten us... - Butterfly

Butterfly
How could you have forgotten PAW, my Popsie??? He will be heartbroken LOL

I think I need to write a training manual and join the crowd LOL

Reply by HisHughness on 10/8/04 2:20pm
Msg #9573

Re: OK Sylvia, please enlighten us...

Butterfly enthused:

***This is goes to show there are WONDERFUL people in this world kind enough to help others and not requesting to get paid.***

Please do not tell any of my lawyer colleagues that. I would be drummed out of the legal rat pack. Somebody, for God's sake, point me in the direction of a widow or orphan who needs to be taken advantage of. I can't stand the stench of this altruism in my nostrils.

Butterfly, PAW has contributed far more and for far longer than any other member of this forum. Genuflect once or twice in his direction, will you?

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/8/04 12:09pm
Msg #9565

Re: OK Sylvia, please enlighten us...

Knowing Cheryl over this last few years, I seriously doubt she was lying.

Sorry you misunderstood my reference to the "caliber of notaries"

I have read the GMN board for a few years now, and you do not get the caliber of notaries there that you get on here and on the Signing Registry. It isn't only those that don't know the difference between an ack and a jurat, but it is those who respond to questions from new notaries. Instead of being patient with them (remembering that they were new once) and replying in a helpful manner, they blast them out (and do it anonymously most of the time). If they can't be helpful, then they shouldn't answer the post.

On here, although there are still anonymous posts (which I hate!) there are not as many as on GMN, and on the Signing Regsitry there are no anonymous posts at all - maybe that is one reason the posts there are more professional.

Reply by Shirley/CA on 10/8/04 2:21pm
Msg #9574

Re: OK Sylvia, please enlighten us...

Ok she said that she frankly thought that 'the idea' was worth considering and then asked for feed back from others. Then later at your suggestion she said she was 'only' looking for feedback. That is not being honest. If you only want feed back then ask for feedback. If you would never do something, don't say frankly I think it is worth considering. If that was not a flip-flop I don't know what is. Also I would like to say that I don't think Cheryl is a bad person. I think she is a good notary and knows all about loan signing. However, I don't know about her collection tactics. like the killer collection letter and the cumulative daily faxing thing.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/8/04 3:46pm
Msg #9577

Re: OK Sylvia, please enlighten us...

Shirley
It wasn't at my suggestion that she said she was only looking for feedback.

I was replying to someone else when I posted that, then I went to the next post etc, then I got to Cheryl's post where she said she was looking for feedback, it was posted prior to my post, and had I seen that first I wouldn't have posted.

Time to let this subject drop.

Reply by Glena/NV on 10/11/04 12:21pm
Msg #9654

Re: HOAX, check out Go Mobile Notary.com

I was one of the people who requested the subject be removed from GMN board as well. I had nothing to do with bait and switch also and I did it for the same reason that Sylvia_FL did.

Reply by sue on 10/8/04 7:43am
Msg #9554

Re: HOAX, check out Go Mobile Notary.com

there was a thread yesterday that has been removed and apparently there were some rather outrageous rants in it attributed to me. well, the first one under 'sue' was me. but anything after that initial post wasn't me. sorry guys but I was out making money.

Reply by Dotti_CA on 10/7/04 11:24am
Msg #9499

I too have unpaid accounts but threatening to hold or destroy documents is unprofessional. In most cases the SS responds quickly when I advise them I'm posting their payment practices on sites such as this. We are their livlihood, without us they can't run a business.

Reply by CA Gal on 10/8/04 1:29pm
Msg #9570

I just received my commission and have not yet started my business. What does SS stand for?

Reply by melinda-fl on 10/8/04 1:32pm
Msg #9571

signing service

Reply by Glena/NV on 10/11/04 12:13pm
Msg #9652

You are opening yourself for a potential lawsuit. You cannot hold the documents hostage and you are making the borrowers pay dor something they had no part in doing. The borrowers could lose thei rinterest and/or the loan will not close. both the borrowers and the lender can sue you for your actions. I heard it worked, but would you open yourself to the risk of being sued and eventually could lose your commission? For me, it is not worth it. I would do other things to collect my money legally and write it off if I can't. JMHO