Posted by Cindy on 10/18/04 1:40pm
Msg #9980

Journal

I am using the Modern Journal of Notarial events sold by Notary Rotary. In the description of document(s) or proceeding section there is room for multiple documents, this is great for loan signings. However, I am wondering if this is really ok in California. I have been using this for awhile now and I am feeling a bit uneasy. If I have a couple closing a loan and have 8 documents that I notarize, is it ok to put them all in that section? I have the husband and wife sign on two separate lines with thumbprint etc and list each notarized document in the description for each of them..... Can anyone tell me if this is appropriate? Or if not, do I need to have them sign the journel for each of the documents notarized? Thanks....

Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 10/18/04 3:15pm
Msg #9991

The Journal must contain sequential entries that include document type and the date and time of the notarial act. If there is not enough room to legibily enter this information for each document, then I would enter each one separately.

Reply by cburton on 10/18/04 3:36pm
Msg #9993

Ok, so if I can list them in say, line 1, then I can list as many as will fit so the client only has to sign one place?

Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 10/18/04 3:56pm
Msg #9994

I would enter each document on a separate line. The signer can still only sign and thumbprint the journal one time. You can draw a diagonal line under the same information and just list the date,time, document type information. If you are ever asked to make a copy of a journal entry it would be much easier to have each document listed on one line. Just my opinion.

Reply by Cindy on 10/18/04 4:12pm
Msg #9995

Thanks, I appreciate the help!

Reply by HisHughness on 10/18/04 4:34pm
Msg #9996

Why would you want to do a separate line for each document? I have had as many as 16-17 separate notarizations for a closing. The MoJo is specifically designed so that more than one document can be entered on a line. If six documents have the same date and the same signatory, why would you not put them all on the same line? To do a separate line for each totally defeats the purpose of the MoJo's design.

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 10/18/04 5:13pm
Msg #9998

Hugh bellowed quizzically: "Why would you want to do a separate line for each document?"

Because that is the way some interpret the CA statute.

From the 2004 CA Handbook:
- - - - -
A notary public is required to keep one active sequential journal at a time of all acts performed as a notary public. The journal must be kept in a locked and secured area (such as a lock box or locked desk drawer), under the direct and exclusive control of the notary. The journal shall include the items shown below. (Government Code Section 8206(a))

1. Date, time and type of each official act (acknowledgment or jurat).

2. Character of every instrument acknowledged or proved before the notary (e.g. deed of trust)

<<<snip>>>

A notary must provide a photostatic copy of a line item from his or her journal when provided with a written request from any member of the public which includes the name of the parties, the type of document, and the month and year in which the document was notarized. (Government Code Section 8206(c)
- - - - -
In order to provide a copy of a line item, that implies that each line only contain one item, that is, one notarial act, so that one item can be copied upon request.

Again, this is an interpretation by some CA notaries that I know, while others have also said they use one line for multiple acts. Not being a CA notary, I have no preference or suggestion, one way or the other. (Florida notaries are not required to keep a journal, though it is highly recommended and many notaries, including myself, do keep a journal of official acts.)

Reply by HisHughness on 10/18/04 5:45pm
Msg #9999

PAW averred:

***Again, this is an interpretation by some CA notaries that I know...***

Let me see: You expect anyone to place any credence in interpretations stemming from residents of a state that gave the world Governator Arnold Schwarzenegger, Haight Asbury, and terra so infirma you need baseball spikes to walk a straight line much of the time? When alligators grow feathers.

Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 10/18/04 6:16pm
Msg #10001

You are right in that it's all in the interpretation. I'm not familiar with MoJo format and the picture was too small for me to understand it. I'm going to the So.Calif. networking luncheon in Nov. and will check out the MoJo then (heck, may even get one as a door prize!).

Reply by HisHughness on 10/18/04 6:40pm
Msg #10003

Forget Austin Powers' mojo. Once you get a NotRot MoJo, you'll be willing to give up drinking, sweets, and any hankerin's you might have for the opposite sex just to hang on to it. Mothers have been known to neglect their children, dog owners to forget to feed their animals, and Republicans to stop looking for more ways to screw the middle class just because all of them are wrapped up in contemplating their MoJos.

Reply by Harry [NR] on 10/18/04 10:14pm
Msg #10013

This is worth responding to... In the past, we have attempted to get the California Secretary of State to provide an official position on the use of checkboxes and, more specifically, the single-line approach, for detailing notarized documents, especially with respect to those of similar circumstance (e.g. mortgage-related / loan signing), notarized in the same sitting. We even sent them copies of the first revision of our MoJo.

Here is what they took issue with:

1) The space we had reserved on the ownership page of the MoJo for a copy of the notary's seal (a big no-no in California),

2) The fact that the words "Satisfactory evidence" did not appear anywhere in the MoJo, and

3) The Social Security card identification checkbox (which is generally not an acceptable form of identification).

In the second printing, we removed the seal space on the ownership page, added "Satisfactory evidence" to the second Instructions page, and removed the SS card checkbox.

Their position on the use of one line vs. multiple lines was to restate the relevant California statute, as you have done. They went on to point out that they couldn't give us any sort of formal approval because it could be viewed as an endorsement of our product. So, our official position is essentially the same as their position: IT DEPENDS ON HOW YOU INTERPRET THE STATUTE. (Though they never told us, "No.")

That was part of the reason we added a disclaimer to the front of the MoJo. In essence, it reads that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. MoJo has enough flexibility to be used in any of three ways, one of which will certainly satisfy even the stingiest state requirements:

1) Multiple documents per line with the use of checkboxes (which I personally believe meets California and all other states' statutes),

2) One document per line with the use of checkboxes, and

3) One document per line, writing the document description in the free-form text area.

Of course, when the dates on the documents vary, multiple lines can also be used as needed.

Finally, not too long ago, NNA included some sort of "do not take shortcuts with your journal" article in their electronic newsletter. The way it read, it seemed as though they were taking direct aim at MoJo and the environmentally, as well as cost- and time-effective, first approach described above.

After all, by introducing this format, we definitely put the good of the many before the pocketbooks of the few. Maybe it was a mistake to design a journal that could last up to 12x as long as a standard journal and THEN sell it for less.

Notaries win.
Trees win.
Signers win.
Notary Rotary bank account loses.

Well, call us altruistic. And, keep in mind that if you're not comfortable with approaches 1 and 2, you are more than welcome to use the MoJo as a standard, line-by-line journal. We'd be thrilled to sell you more!

Harry
Notary Rotary, Inc.

Reply by Bob, Ca on 10/18/04 10:40pm
Msg #10017

I read this board everyday, educating myself. I have recently retired from a county job and just taking it easy for a few months before I get into the swing of things. I have purchased the MoJo and another journal when I took the initial course, and test, etc, in May 2004. I previously asked a question concerning the signing of the journal after multiple documents are notarized. Someone responded that it was ok to draw a line diagonally and have the client sign only once for multiple documents. For the life of me, I can't find that no where in the California notary Laws. If I can't see it in black and white, I don't feel comfortable with doing it any other way; also using common sense. But common sense probably would not be a good defense if something happens and it is determined every line should be signed separately. It is my commission that is at stake and I am sure no one would take the fall for or with me for wrong information. If drawing the line is legal, could someone point me in the right direction as far as seeing it in black and white.

Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 10/18/04 11:31pm
Msg #10022

Re: Journal - Thank you Harry - very informative - N/M

Reply by Dotti_CA on 10/19/04 1:53pm
Msg #10050

Thank you Harry. I use MoJo and love it. The way I use it is determined by the loan documents I'm dealing with, qty, comments, etc. Since I'm a stickler for detail I believe if I'm happy with it SAC should be too.

Reply by Cassandra/O.C., Calif. on 10/19/04 5:40pm
Msg #10068

Thanks for designing a wonderful journal, Harry. I use it & find it so much easier than the one I bought from the NNA. And you don't send me renewal notices every other day to renew my membership that doesn't expire for another two years - I like that!
You guys did a great job - kudos!

Reply by Cindy on 10/19/04 6:20pm
Msg #10072

Well, I appreciate all the opinions given. I too love the MoJo and just wanted to be sure that I was in compliance. Thanks to everyone for their comments!

Reply by Barbara/CA on 10/19/04 2:20pm
Msg #10054

Cindy,

You only need to have the borrower sign once in your notary book for each DAY that the borrower appeared in your presence ... not for each document. You are only notarizing that the borrower appeared and proved to you who they were. That is all.

So in the document description line you can itemization (in tiny, tiny print I guess) the documents that are being notarized on that DAY and borrower signed once.

If you have any confusion, it is best to consult with the National Notary Association, or the Secretary of State, Notary Division, they will be glad to inform you of what is legally required of how to complete the notary book.