Posted by Irene on 10/19/04 7:04pm
Msg #10077

Who gets to decide when we get paid?

This was just a thought but it seems to me when I hire someone to do work for me: fix my furnace, my car, ect. Any time you hire a contractor to do work they tell the person who hired them when payment is due. Usually it is at the time of service. So why do we let the SS tell us when they are going to pay us? Just a thought.

Reply by Butterfly on 10/19/04 7:45pm
Msg #10078

I question that as well. When an appraiser comes to your home he is paid 99% of the time then an there for the service. Same as pest inspector and the list goes on. I do not understand why this is not regulated some how. We are contracted to perform and some are not paid within 30 days. I have not had an issue as most of my signings are with a Title Co. or 2 SS's. But knowing fellow Notaries are having such issue's really upsets me.

First step is taken by posting the Companies that do not pay. The second is to find legal recorse. I am amazed with all the problems there seems to be with collecting that the NNA would get involved! I realize that several Notaries have their opinions about them, but they govern us with laws sould they not protect us just the same? I would think we need to make them accountable as well as ourselves!

This is only the thoughts of one t'd off Notary. I would like to see all of us put our thoughts into the space a figure a way to go to the next step. If it is not us then we are falling victim to ourselves. There are MANY educated people in the forum lets figure this out.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/19/04 10:02pm
Msg #10090

Butterfly
What do you mean about the NNA "they govern us with laws" ??????

Reply by Butterfly on 10/20/04 8:46am
Msg #10112

Sylvia, the people that take our commissions away for various reasons, the one who allows us our commission or not, the one who tells us what our job is, what we can and can not do, adds to requirements of renewal or new applicants. In a nut shell they govern us.

I was a little surprised about the responses to the original post. There is a major problem going on with being paid. As I stated I have not been one of the people affected but want to see things change for those that have been stiffed. I know there is a way to make changes that will allow others to collect on a debt. I know some where in the future I may run into a collection problem and no time like the present to start working on this.

I believe issues like this can be resolved. I am a one man army and can fight a pretty good battle, just think if the one man army was 5,000? I am sure things may change a little faster if we all work TOGETHER.

Just my thoughts, I am not here in this world for just me.

Reply by sue on 10/20/04 10:03am
Msg #10116

Sylvia asked what I was thinking. the NNA has nothing to do with our commissions. I'd imagine in most states the Secretary of State's office governs notaries and the laws for that specific state. the NNA was an educational membership organization now also an advertising tool.

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 10/20/04 10:14am
Msg #10118

In your post to which Sylvia responded, you stated: "... but they {the NNA} govern us with laws sould they not protect us just the same?"

Most states do not even recognize the NNA as official voice for the Notary Public. They are nothing more than a private organization, much the same as any signing service or home-based business. They, the NNA, do not regulate nor establish any laws, that is up the the individual states and state government.

Also, most state's notary divisions will not tackle the "signing agent" role as it is not a notarial function, it is a business function with a business relationship. Notary divisions are only concerned with the notarial act and the notary public in the performance of their duties.

Technically speaking, a Signing Agent does not need to be a notary public. However, to minimize costs make the process easier, most companies insist that their signing agents, also be a notary public to facilitate the handful of notarizations required in the package.

The problem with non-payment must be handled from a business perspective. That is, either through the legal system or the corporate regulations divisions within state government.

Reply by Butterfly on 10/20/04 10:42am
Msg #10119

Please accept my sincere sorry. I was under the impression the NNA was part of the Sectry. of State. Thank you for clearing my misunderstanding up.

Still the same, the Sectry. of State should back us as well. We are Notaries billing for a service of both notarizations and signings. Regardless of the signing part we are Notaries and have performed a job.

It just seems to me there is a way to move the collections issues in a forward direction. This is my entire reason for making comments. Again, I do not have this issue. I am not stating I never will, but this seems to happening too much and I would like to help and be a part of the solution. There are SO many educated people on this forum lets move this in the direction of how can WE put all our thoughts together and move in a direction that helps all of us and not standing stagnate (SP?)

Reply by Joan-OH on 10/20/04 8:37pm
Msg #10162


You stated: "Still the same, the Sectry. of State should back us as well. We are Notaries billing for a service of both notarizations and signings. Regardless of the signing part we are Notaries and have performed a job."

The Secretary of State is concerned with us being Notaries/Public Servants, not how much we get paid or whether we get paid from deadbeat signing companies. In Ohio, we can charge 1.50 - $2.00 per notarization. You can believe I'm not going to the SOS to complain XYZ company did not pay me my $75 for a loan signing and then try to explain why I am billing for $75 & not $10 for a document set with 5 notarizations. My real complaint is they did not pay me for my signing agent services, not that they didn't pay me for my notarial services.

The SOS should have nothing to do with the signing agent industry and I prefer to keep it that way. They are there for direction, clarification and enforcement of Notarial laws.

JMHO

Joan-OH

Reply by CarolynCO on 10/20/04 10:47am
Msg #10120

In referring to the NNA, Butterfly stated "the people that take our commissions away for various reasons, the one who allows us our commission or not, the one who tells us what our job is, what we can and can not do, adds to requirements of renewal or new applicants. In a nut shell they govern us."

The Colorado Secretary of State gave me my commission and can revoke my commission -- not the NNA. Colorado statutues *tell* me what I can and can't do when it comes to notarizing -- again, not the NNA. The NNA doesn't govern me. I have been a notary since 1993 and did not join the NNA until eleven years later. If I have questions and want to get a correct answer, I contact the Secretary of State, not the NNA.

Reply by CaliNotary on 10/20/04 1:05pm
Msg #10125

"There is a major problem going on with being paid. As I stated I have not been one of the people affected but want to see things change for those that have been stiffed"

I wouldn't say that there is a major problem with us being paid. If the problem was that rampant in the industry surely YOU would have been affected by now.

We hear about the problem companies in here, but none of us come in here and post "I received a check today. It was paid within the timeframe I expected it". The problem seems amplified because we don't have any context to compare it with all of the payments that we DO receive on time.'

This is just part of business and it's hardly exclusive to the signing industry. Some companies simply suck about paying their bills on time. It'll never go away, we don't need to change the way the industry works, we just need to accept it as part of being in business for ourselves and chase down the money on the rare occasion that it happens.

I've completed about 600 signings in the past year and half, so far I've been stiffed on 2 of them and I've had to call and track down or correct the payment amount on maybe 25-30. Which means that I've received timely and correct payments on well over 550 of them. Those are pretty good percentages in my eyes.

Reply by CarolynCO on 10/20/04 3:41pm
Msg #10134

CaliNotary said "This is just part of business and it's hardly exclusive to the signing industry. Some companies simply suck about paying their bills on time. It'll never go away, we don't need to change the way the industry works, we just need to accept it as part of being in business for ourselves and chase down the money on the rare occasion that it happens."


That is so true. When working for yourself, you aren't guaranteed a paycheck or a set payday. Most of my secretarial attorneys pay their accounts payable once a month, which means they usually pay me in 60 days. It's part of being self-employed. If someone is depending on a $50, $75, $100 or $150 signing to pay utilities, buy groceries or keep their house out of foreclosure, it might be best to keep the fulltime permanent job and do signings only as a sideline.

Reply by Becca/FL on 10/19/04 10:30pm
Msg #10097

I decide when I get paid. If a SS contract states that they pay w/i 45 days, I expect to be paid w/i 45 days and I accept the terms. When I work for a Title Co directly, I expect to be paid on disbursement. Many businesses (pest control, appraiser, surveyor) that are involved in a Real Estate deal do not get paid up-front, they get paid with the close of escrow. I don't have a problem with that.

My point is, YOU decide when you get paid everytime you agree to an assignment. In the begining, you may have to suck it up and work for SS's that pay 60 days out. Heck, when I started I accepted deals that paid 75-80 days out. A BIG mistake, I might add. This is your choice, you ARE in control.

Reply by SFX_ca on 10/20/04 2:57am
Msg #10106

I think this site should allow us to write comments on companies when rating them. I've looked over the compnaies listings/ratings and I saw company descriptions...but no comments from notaries/signing agents. Although I haven't been doing this long, I like the idea of being paid up front. Private clients do and I don't see why a company should be allowed to make us wait.

Reply by anonymous on 10/21/04 7:38am
Msg #10191

As with any contracting position, and I do believe we are contracters, there are laws in each state governing the payment process. As most of you will know there is a an affidavit in most loans asking if there are any outstanding contracting bills with the house. We are no different in regards to what we can do as a "contracter". I am certainly not recommending this as an everyday option, but there comes a time when more measures need to be taken with these unpaying companies. As contracters we have the right to file a lien against the company. Now this cost a fee and varies in each state, however when a lien is filed that company will eventually have to pay this, due to them being unable to borrow money or anything else like that. This lien will also reflect when a lump sum of money is paid to this company. They will be required to pay their outstanding debt. Not to mention it costs them twice as much money in the long run.

Reply by HisHughness on 10/21/04 7:44am
Msg #10194

I'm not even going to try to point out the many misconceptions in the posting by "anonymous" under this topic heading. Suffice it to say that the entire concept is erroneous.

Reply by Bonnie on 10/21/04 8:39am
Msg #10199

I want to just state for the record that I am having collection problems from Globaldox and Notary America. These two companies have not paid me for signings as far back as June and July. This is a total of four assignments that are going unpaid. I do not depend on this work to pay my mortgage, but I do put in a lot of time and effort to complete assignments as requested. Just a warning to anyone who might be called, NOTARY AMERICA and GLOBALDOX are on my do not accept list!

Reply by Butterfly on 10/21/04 9:36am
Msg #10207

Wow....... I am amazed at the responses once again. I thought this post would help us bring our heads together and start on a way of working together towards the same goal! WRONG. I did make a mistake by saying the NNA let me retract that for the second time, "I am sorry for stating the NNA I was WRONG. What should have been stated was the Secretary of State. There hope that clears this up.

Next, yes there is a problem going on with receiving payment read the board. No, I will not or do not expect someone else to roll over when they are not paid. Yes there is some loss expected when you are in business for yourself but when the SS is paid for the job WE do and the do not pay US I do believe this can be changed.

I was hoping for all of US to put our heads together and work on a solution. Again, I have not been stiffed by anyone, but still I am thinking there would be something WE could all do more than what WE are to resolve this. Think outside of "I" and look at "WE" is what I am doing and what I was trying to accomplish.

Reply by CarolynCO on 10/21/04 1:18pm
Msg #10230

Butterfly said "Wow....... I am amazed at the responses once again. I thought this post would help us bring our heads together and start on a way of working together towards the same goal! WRONG. . . . I was hoping for all of US to put our heads together and work on a solution."

The solution you are looking for is individual common sense, judgment and instinct. Read "no no" posts and create your own, however, as I've stated before, I don't simply refuse a SS because they are on someone's list -- if I see the name over and over on several different lists, then a red flag goes up. My own "no no" list is made up not so much because of payment problems, but with my own experiences with e-docs and timelines. I also make it a practice to NEVER have more than two outstanding signings for a SS and won't accept another signing until the two outstanding ones have been paid. I don't understand some posts stating hundreds and even thousands of dollars one SS owes them. I mean, H-E-L-L-O.

Reply by Butterfly on 10/21/04 1:38pm
Msg #10231

Last attempt to clairify: I know of the NO NO list and all the other information. I have been in the Mortgage field for 18 years so I know qutie a bit. My point is still the same, there must be a way to change what is going on with the SS's not paying. If there is nothing to protect Notaries, lets get something going in that direction. I do not think anyone is getting the point.... point mute!

Reply by CarolynCO on 10/21/04 2:48pm
Msg #10238

With desperation Butterfly said "Last attempt to clairify"

I didn't need clarification. I understood perfectly what your post said, and I said that people need to use their common sense and not to let SS's rack up numerous unpaid invoices -- and this can be accomplished by not letting any one signing service owe you for more than preferably one, but no more than two signings. SS's are no different than any other company -- some pay immediately and others drag on and on and you have to budget for the slackers and continue contacting them by phone, snail mail, e-mail and fax and if you still do not get paid, then you must go to more extreme collection methods individually. One method I have found successful is contacting the title or loan company about the SS and their lack of paying you. I've noticed that with most posts re nonpayment, there are usually many posts/threads regarding the particular SS and their slow or no payment record and can't understand why people are surprised when it has been 30, 45 or 60 more days and they have not been paid.

Unfortunately, as was mentioned earlier in the thread, this is not solely a signing problem, it's a part of being self-employed and being an independent contractor.

Reply by CaliNotary on 10/21/04 3:13pm
Msg #10240

For a mute point you sure have a lot to say about it.

What would you suggest we do? You keep saying that we need to change things but you're not throwing any suggestions out on how to do it.

Logistically, I really don't see how we can be paid in advance by the signing services; most of my signings have either one day notice or are for the same day. The docs are sent by the title company, not the signing service, so it's not like payment could be included when we receive the document package.

One thing people seem to be forgetting is that we are dealing with business to business relationships. People talk about the plumber being paid right away or the appraiser being paid right away. Apples and oranges. Business finance is different than personal finance, and invoicing is the NORM in business, not being paid cash up front.

The only thing that needs to change in the industry is that more signing agents need to get some business training and learn how things work in the real world, and not in their fantasy signing agent bubble. If we want to be viewed as a professional industry we need to stop acting like amateurs who have no idea what they're doing, which a lot of us clearly are.

Changing the way signing services pay us is a moot point. Changing our thinking is what needs to be done.

Reply by Butterfly on 10/21/04 5:48pm
Msg #10259

Yes, as a matter of fact I did have quite a bit to say. As I ended the last email, the point that I was attempting to convey is mute because what I received back was the same silly things I know and have read over 20 times. I was attempting to find a better resolution as there is one out there. I was saying if we all pull our brains together we could make some changes. Quite obviously what many are doing right now is NOT working based on results. When results are not there, the wise thing to do is to find another direction. Ahhhhh that is where I have been attempting to do!

I am not saying that everyone has had or will have this problem and I am aware not all SS's or Title Companies are this way. But.... a company that was once good to work for could turn into a nightmare and several people could be out money.

As this is a mute point I seemed to have rambled on. Just hoping I could get through to someone.

Reply by CarolynCO on 10/21/04 6:57pm
Msg #10265

Butterfly was heard complaining "what I received back was the same silly things I know and have read over 20 times"

Excuse me for wasting your time with trivial and silly things you already know and have read over 20 times. WOW - that's a lot of times to read the same nonsense and foolishness. I won't make you read it for the 21st time, because I'd hate to bore you to death with any more mute points.

Reply by CaliNotary on 10/21/04 7:51pm
Msg #10266

Since my subtle attempt at correcting you went right over your head I guess I'll be more blatant.

The point is MOOT, not mute. Mute means silent.

Reply by SFX_ca on 10/24/04 3:55am
Msg #10378

Something people could do...if they're not too hard up for the cash...would be to either work soley with lenders(just cut out the SS all together) or to simply start demanding payment up-front, BEFORE signing the document.

Just a thought.

Reply by CarolynCO on 10/24/04 3:23pm
Msg #10402

SFX_ca suggested "simply start demanding payment up-front, BEFORE signing the document"

As Cali said (on the 21st I believe) and I concur: "Logistically, I really don't see how we can be paid in advance by the signing services; most of my signings have either one day notice or are for the same day. The docs are sent by the title company, not the signing service, so it's not like payment could be included when we receive the document package."