Posted by ItsMe on 9/28/04 1:41pm
Msg #8986

Fees---Don't Work For Free

Hi all. A little history about myself. I have been doing signings for awhile now and have a great deal of experience in the mortgage business. I strongly believe that it is pertinent that a signing agent should know the documents that they are witnessing to insure a correct package. With this said, this experience doesn't come free. When people agree to sign loans down for next to nothing to grab market share they perceive themselves as "doing what it takes" to establish themselves. However, what they are really doing is shortselling the business. What needs to be understood in a long-distance lender situation is that you may be the only representative that the borrower has had face to face contact with. (with exception of the appraiser however in alot of cases the appraisal may have done with an AVM) Signing companiesneed to realize that when they pay 50 bucks they are going to get 50 buck quality. Lenders pay big money (know one who pays signing company $400) for these long distance signings because they have to have it done right the first time. Don't sell yourself short to get a job because what you are doing is selling all of us short and you will lose the ability to command respect/cash for /your/our services. Believe me, if you are under cutting those in your area you are essentially under cutting yourself. In my area we strive as a group of notaries to refuse cheap work, not under cutting each other and thus in our area all know that nothing is done for free. Sure someone new will pop up but what the SS/Lenders find is that when they hire one for $50 bucks they get in a situation that someone can't print docs, packages are signed wrong, work/appearance is unprofessional, etc... and guess what, they end up in a desperate situation calling the pros who now know they are desperate and the SS end up paying $50 more than the pro would have originally agreed to. Make these signing services know that their contracts with the lenders are dependent on the docs shipped/signed correctly and when they are wrong the lender will go shopping.
Second Board I put this one today, it is that important.

Reply by Anonymous on 9/28/04 3:19pm
Msg #8991

AMEN!!! AMEN!!! AMEN!!! Nothing infuriates me more than all those morons out there who are doing more harm than good to our wonderful industry. With the cost of living rising ever higher each day (i live in NYC), i find it quite insulting when so many companies out there act as if they are doing me a favor by giving me $50 for conducting such an important,and sometimes complex, transaction. There are days when the mental stress and complexities of bringing all the pieces together just to make sure that all signings are actually done,-and done RIGHT- makes me think that i should just go and get my law degree! After all,so many borrowers mistakenly think that i'm one,and why??? The way that i dress,my grooming, the way that i speak-my whole presence and interaction with them screams PROFESSIONAL;in other words, i ask myself, what would i be expecting of an attorney,or bank officer if they were coming to MY house for such an IMPORTANT meeting??? I love what i do,and the fact that so many people mistakenly assume that i am a lawyer is proof to me that the total professional image that i work so hard to project is actually working. Closing loans is quite physically and mentally draining and,as i am so fond of telling those selfish and greedy SSs, "in view of all the money being made by ALL of the entities involved -not to mention the importance of the job being done RIGHT THE FIRST TIME-offering me $50 simply is not fair. As long as you agents out there- YES,YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE- keep saying yes to their game of CHICKEN ,not only you, but ALL of your hard- working comrades will continue to be ABUSED AND DISRESPECTED. REMEMBER,every time that you say "yes" to them, they walk to the bank smiling,because they are getting over on you suckers. Stop taking money out of our families mouth. When you get some backbone,we will all benefit greatly.

Reply by HisHughness on 9/28/04 4:37pm
Msg #8998

I am a lawyer, and you're right: The way I handle myself speaks reams about me and my profession. That's why so often they meet me on the porch with a shotgun.

Reply by Nd_WA on 9/28/04 3:39pm
Msg #8994

Well put ItsMe,

End of the month, I got 2 calls this morning but they both couldn't affort my $125 fees for edocs. I have been surfing and have looked at many notary websites for idea to build my own site. Lo and Bhold, you would not believe what I ran accross. With a nice fancy website, a CNSA, member of this, member of that, many years experience, etc. But, the fee stated on the site is less than $100 for edoc (based $55-65) and no more than $125 for a piggy back.

Some do not realized the nature of this business, they just think 'work-get pay" rather than "revenue-profit". CarolynCO or someone's website has a good break down of how much one actually make after taxes/expenses/deductions.

IMO...as a former RE agent, its a lucrative industry if there is anything that involved real estate.

Reply by CarolynCO on 9/29/04 5:58am
Msg #9016

Nd WA said "CarolynCO or someone's website has a good break down of how much one actually make after taxes/expenses/deductions."

Yes, it's my website. Actually the breakdown is for my secretarial service, however, many people have no idea that when working for ourselves, money in hand is not free and clear because of self-employment taxes, health insurance, etc. -- a very big chunk comes off the top.

Reply by Stephanie/CA on 9/28/04 5:27pm
Msg #9001

Re: Fees---Don't Work For Free - Michelle

What area are you in, what state?

Thank you,
Stephanie

Reply by HPushard on 9/28/04 7:58pm
Msg #9011

I think it is possible in some instances that the fees being charged are due to lack of knowledge of what reasonably should be charged. I'm new to this website, even though I've been a notary since 1988. I've seen many posts on this site questioning what is a fair price for services. I don't have a clear concept of what is fair to charge, and it seems, neither do a lot of other individuals. I spent 12 years working for a title company, but we handled only local matters. So, am I a flying-by-the-seat-of-my-pants notary who knows nothing about loan documents? No. Do I know what is a fair price to charge in my rural area where I know there is a lack of services? No. Have a been a member for a whole two days and already received a phone call for a closing on Thursday? Yes. What to do?

Reply by HPushard on 9/29/04 10:23am
Msg #9022

If you worked in the title industry than you know how the game is played. My first question is "Whose is the Lender?" If it is one of the lenders that you know you will be working real hard to get docs etc and you know how make they pay the signing agency (now I hope all keep track of what each HUD states the signing company is getting paid) than you can play ball. If I don't know the $$ the SS is getting I start at (that's right) BASE 125.00 with 25.00-40.00 for e-docs. (charge depending on lender again, you know some of those doc packages)Emaphasize on the BASE because if I am driving real far to close it and I will, then I increase with consideration. Sure they say no but I know I will end up going. They are now in a situation as they can't find anyone or I have to go fix the Sign Name/Aff after someone else's 2 previous tries or worse the notary has basically deeded himself on the property (that's the funniest). Now it is premium as "Hey, it needs to fund" they say. I DO NOT WORK FOR FREE I SAY and boom you got yourself a better deal. Remember mortgages are all about who is in control of the money and nothing funds if it is not signed. I repeat noone gets paid if a loan doesn't close and with a bad closer the best loan can get lost at the table.
Yourself being in a rural area, well let's just say you are luckier than most---go for what you are worth, Start at 125 + 25 e-docs for a reasonable drive (defined by yourself) and if they jump too fast at it then put your hands in your pockets and sign it down knowing next time you will go for 150. Best Of Luck


Once Again Remember mortgages are all about who is in control of the money and nothing funds if it is not signed. I repeat noone gets paid if a loan doesn't close and with a bad closer the best loan can get lost at the table.

Reply by ItsMe on 9/29/04 10:24am
Msg #9023

OOPs---That last one was me

Trying to get to posting. Sorry

Reply by BrendaTX on 9/29/04 11:17am
Msg #9029

Re: OOPs---Interesting

So, what you are saying is that you are both HPushard and ItsMe?

Anyhow, it looks that way because that's what the IP's indicate.

Reply by ItsMe on 9/29/04 11:31am
Msg #9033

Re: OOPs---Interesting

no I am not. I went to reply and I didn't realize one needed to change the author. As far as the IP it beats me maybe it's an internet thing who knows. I am not Hpushard. My name is Michelle and I am from Michigan.

Reply by CarolynCO on 9/29/04 1:06pm
Msg #9042

Re: OOPs---Interesting

IP addresses are unique and simply not an internet thing. Unless a hacker has gained access to your computer (in which case you have more problems than with names/IP address), it would appear, as Brenda pointed out, that you are posting under two different names.

Reply by CaliNotary on 9/29/04 4:48pm
Msg #9058

Re: OOPs---Interesting

Why on earth are you lying about something so inconsequential? You are obviously Hpushard, you posted 1 minute apart with the same IP address. When posting messages in here you do not have to change the author, nor can you post under somebody else's name. If you made a post that came out uner the name as Hpushard, it's because YOU are Hpushard.

The author options that you have are: anonymous, your screenname, or your real name. That's it. If I reply to a post from HisHughness, it is not going to give me the option of posting under the name HisHughenss. I suppose I might be able to manually go to my profile and change my screenname to HisHughness, but that would be a conscious thing, it would be impossible for it to happen accidentally. And more likely than not, it wouldn't let me do it anyway because the screenname is already taken.

Anyway, since you're OBVIOUSLY lying about this, I certainly cannot give any credibility to anything else you post in here. If you want to continue posting and patting yourself on the back about what a great signing agent you are and how you're able to get much more in fees than most of us in here are getting, be my guest. You've already done it 2 days in a row, why not go for 3. I'm just going to assume that your ego needs stroking and that you're desperate to take any $50 job that comes your way.

Reply by CaliNotary on 9/30/04 7:49am
Msg #9079

Re: OOPs---Interesting

it can be done, when you hit reply the "Enter Your Message Here" box pops up and as you can see I just typed your name in.

I've got no idea how any of that IP stuff works and I don't really care either but you can put any name you want in as author, each time.

by the way, this is sue typing this

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 9/30/04 7:58am
Msg #9081

Re: OOPs---Interesting

IF you are NOT logged in, then ANY name can be placed in the "Author" field and the server IP address will be shown. However, IF you ARE logged in, then only the names associated with your login are a available, and your IP address is NOT shown, but "logged in user" (or something like that) will appear where the IP address is normally shown.

Reply by BrendaTX on 9/30/04 11:24am
Msg #9086

Re: OOPs---Interesting

Said sue: "it can be done, when you hit reply the "Enter Your Message Here" box pops up and as you can see I just typed your name in.

I've got no idea how any of that IP stuff works and I don't really care either but you can put any name you want in as author, each time.

by the way, this is sue typing this"
----------
This makes my previous point and that of Cali's. If you are not logged in, you can type in any name you would like to type in. The IP, a proxy IP, I have recently learned from PAW NS, or a personal IP from the poster's computer, only shows up if you are not logged in.

If you are logged in you get three choices and your IP does not show up.

Reply by HisHughness on 9/30/04 12:01pm
Msg #9088

Re: OOPs---Interesting

BrendaTX, sue, PAW, Cali, the entire marching band from Redmond, WA Nerd High School, the worldwide employee list from Beast Buy, two denizens of the Mustang Ranch in Nevada, and a group of homeless techno-bums in East St. Louis all exhorted at great length:

***Said sue: "it can be done, when you hit reply the "Enter Your Message Here" box pops up and as you can see I just typed your name in.

I've got no idea how any of that IP stuff works and I don't really care either but you can put any name you want in as author, each time.

by the way, this is sue typing this"
----------
This makes my previous point and that of Cali's. If you are not logged in, you can type in any name you would like to type in. The IP, a proxy IP, I have recently learned from PAW NS, or a personal IP from the poster's computer, only shows up if you are not logged in.

If you are logged in you get three choices and your IP does not show up. ***

Who cares, guys? Why don't we get off this and on to something more interesting to everybody, such as how long will I be able to retain my rugged good looks, howcome my lovely and talented wife's cat likes me more than her, howcome my Chihuahua also likes me more than her, am I really a worthy successor to both Leo Tolstoy and Dag Hammarskjold? You know, something that everybody would obviously be interested in.

Reply by Jon on 9/30/04 12:30pm
Msg #9090

Re: OOPs---Interesting

Hugh queried,

"...howcome my lovely and talented wife's cat likes me more than her, howcome my Chihuahua also likes me more than her...?"

I don't know Hugh, but aren't cats and dogs attracted to strange smells? Maybe it's your John Kerry cologne.

Reply by HisHughness on 9/30/04 2:07pm
Msg #9098

Re: OOPs---Interesting

Dugh not come down on me, Jon. My doctor just sent me tugh bed for double pnughmonia, and I had tugh give up twugh high-dollar closings for tughday. Now yugh, tugh, want tugh try tugh make my mughd worse. Scrugh yugh. And don't be so cheap -- here are some spare "h's" I have: Try learning how to spell your name properly. hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Reply by Jon on 9/30/04 6:40pm
Msg #9110

Re: OOPs---Interesting

After reading your previous post, I realized that you aren't wearing the cologne, you must be drinking it!

BTW, it worked, we are no longer discussing names and IP addresses. Good job Hugh!!!

Reply by BrendaTX on 9/30/04 8:56pm
Msg #9119

Re: OOPs---Interesting

Jon said to Hugh: "After reading your previous post, I realized that you aren't wearing the cologne, you must be drinking it!

BTW, it worked, we are no longer discussing names and IP addresses. Good job Hugh!!! "

My guess is that Hugh is drinking Sprite and Nyquil cocktails. Now, can we get back to talking about IPs? (;>)

Reply by CarolynCO on 10/1/04 3:44pm
Msg #9166

Re: OOPs---Interesting

Brenda said "This makes my previous point and that of Cali's. If you are not logged in, you can type in any name you would like to type in. The IP, a proxy IP, I have recently learned from PAW NS, or a personal IP from the poster's computer, only shows up if you are not logged in.

If you are logged in you get three choices and your IP does not show up. "

I also have Comcast, the same as ItsMe or PushHead or whatever the names are. My IP address NEVER changes, also if you look my IP up, it says Comcast, out of New Jersey, I believe, even though I'm located in CO. Point is, my IP stays the same, and shows up if I'm not logged in.

Reply by CaliNotary on 9/30/04 12:00pm
Msg #9087

Re: OOPs---Interesting

Yeah, and the key is that you had to type my name in. It didn't happen accidentally, you manually did it. Which pretty much proves my point, thank you for the clarification.

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 9/29/04 1:02pm
Msg #9040

Re: OOPs---Interesting

Brenda said: "...it looks that way because that's what the IP's indicate." While this may be true for many posters, those who share ISP's, such as Comcast, AOL, MSN, etc., the IP addresses can be misleading. You don't see the actual sender's IP address, only the proxy servers address which can be shared by hundreds of users at the same time.

Reply by CarolynCO on 9/29/04 1:08pm
Msg #9043

Re: OOPs---Interesting

PAW said "those who share ISP's, such as Comcast, AOL, MSN, etc., the IP addresses can be misleading. You don't see the actual sender's IP address, only the proxy servers address which can be shared by hundreds of users at the same time."

I guess I should have read your post first. It just seems unusual that the same IP address would appear almost simultaneously

Reply by BrendaTX on 9/29/04 1:20pm
Msg #9045

Re: OOPs---Interesting

That's good information for me to know also, Carolyn. (PAW's posting below.)

If I post through my ISP it will display my exact IP address--naked and no proxy address for me-- .... alas, I cannot hide, darn it!

But, now I know I can get an AOL account and wreak serious havoc. Hey, I do have an MSN paid account. Now, I wonder if I use MSN Explorer if I can sign in and do the same thing, rather than have to go through it by dial up. Hmmmm...wheels turning.

In spite of what is true about the proxy servers...it's still interesting to watch the IP addresses on postings!!



(PAW said "those who share ISP's, such as Comcast, AOL, MSN, etc., the IP addresses can be misleading. You don't see the actual sender's IP address, only the proxy servers address which can be shared by hundreds of users at the same time."

Carolyn: I guess I should have read your post first. It just seems unusual that the same IP address would appear almost simultaneously)

Reply by CaliNotary on 9/29/04 4:38pm
Msg #9056

I can't say that I really disagree with what you've written, but one thing that you are not taking into consideration is that not all areas are equal when it comes to signing agent work. I'm in Los Angeles where there are a ton of signing agents. If I were to start quoting $125 per signing I would immediately price myself into unemployment.

Would I like to be able to charge more? Of course. Am I willing to take the chance that these companies are going to see me as being worth a $125 base fee? Hell no. Principles are nice, keeping a roof over my head and food in my mouth is even nicer.

The majority of HUD statements that I see show a signing fee of $125-$150. Why on earth would I expect a signing service to pay me $125 if that's all they're charging the lender?

Reply by SD girl on 9/29/04 8:04pm
Msg #9066

I agree! I would love to charge the base $125 BUT I am in San Diego and there are a ton of notaries here. I have in fact turned signing companies away that want to only pay $40-50 but I can honestly say that I have negotiated/lowered my fees many times without thinking about it twice. This job is the only one I have and I feel that I am very privelidged to work just a few hours a week and have the advantage of staying home with my children. I usually have my signing in the evenings and my husband stays with the kids. I cant think of any other home based business that I would enjoy as much. Thank you for all of your wonderful insights, I really enjoy reading this board! If anyone would like to network in San Diego/southbay area please email me at [e-mail address]

Reply by Marie/CA on 9/30/04 12:48pm
Msg #9092

Well, there are plenty of companies that pay up to "at least" 150.00 for edocs. I work for a few of them. They don't even try to talk you lower. I am also in L.A. county. Just be sure that you ask them a base fee or quote high first before offering the lowest fee. You could be selling yourself short and lowering the standard for all others with the same company. Yes, you are right some signing companies only get a small cut themselves (they usually do that to stimulate business) and with those if you want the job you will need to take the fee they offer or don't do the job. However, there are many companies that are more than willing to offer and pay you a decent fee if you take a moment to negotiate . .