Posted by Cindy on 9/27/04 12:37am
Msg #8916

HELP!!! NEED ADVICE QUICK!

I was contacted by a Title Co for a edoc signing-gave a very resonable signing fee quote. Signing was scheduled for Sat 09/25. Informed that the borrower would like the signing sometime after 4pm that day. Called left message on borrower home phone that I would call after 5pm that day to set an evening appt up. Did the same at his work left a message. Well, the borrower called me at 5pm expecting me there at that time. I informed him I was on another signing at the moment, and could be at his house by 6:45-7pm. That is why I left a message to call him after 5pm, (was not quite sure when I would be done, and I wanted to speak with him directly to set time-since he lived out of town). Anyway he told me that he had prior plans after 6pm and that there was NO WAY he could do the signing after 6pm. Went into the importance about date sensitive docs etc...still wouldnt budge,( I think he had a hot date or something) We agreed on a Monday 09/27 signing. Here's the bad part about this signing-I informed the title co about this, I looked at the docs and this borrower has til 09/30 to keep te rate. They informed me that I had to sign and date the docs for 09/25 that they would lose the rate/loan if we crossed out and signed the date for 09/27 and I need to explain the same to the borrower/he needs to back date also. They also told me if I didnt do this I could be held liable by the title co/lender/ and the borrower for losing the loan by not signing on 09/25. I have Never had this happen to me in my signing ex. The other title/lending co have always approved the cross out or drew up new doc dates. I am very disturbed by this. 1) as a notary we have to verify the date we signed/not backdate -I could lose my commision for this couldnt I? 2) I dont want to be held liable for the borrower to lose his rate, nor liable by the lender/title co. Any suggestions from my fellow experienced Notary Signing Agents out there on what I should do? What should I tell the borrower and the Title Co? I think this is all coming from the Title Co. Should I talk to the Lender about this? In the long run I would rather lose the Title co business then my Notary business. I also dont want to get sued by the borrower for losing his rate, but then I think, I was willing to sign for that day, he was the one that canceled. If it was me, I would of waited an extra hour to sign, then go on my date...Please any advice will help, I am pulled both ways on what I am going to do about this issue for tomorrow's signing. Thank you

Reply by Jennifer on 9/27/04 12:44am
Msg #8918

Don't back date

This is what I posted last week on GMN

This is the time of month when lenders ask notaries to "back date" - that is, to write a date on the notarizations and documents that is not the actual date of signing and notarizing.
This request can come from the lender, the Signing Service, the borrower or any other people involved in the loan.

Why they want notaries to do this:
Pure greed.

Loan officers want loans to close by their last funding day of the month. (This may be any date close to the last calendar day of the month.) They want loans closed by this date because they want to get the commission for this month, not next month.

The request will usually be made quite casually, such as: "the documents will have to be dated for the 22nd. You won't mind that."

What could happen to you:
The borrowers could get mad at the lender and/or title company. If the borrowers decide to sue, everyone will be named: lender, title company, you, and all Jane/John Does. If you have to defend yourself in a lawsuit, your E&O insurance will not help you. Insurance does not cover illegal acts knowingly done. You could lose your commission, your career, and your shirt. You may have to pay fines to your state.

If someone finds out you "back dated" and reported you to the Sec of State or other agency of your government, you could lose your commission and your career. And you could be charged fines.

The loan officers do not care that they are asking you to put your career and assets on the line just so they get their commission.

When you are asked to back date JUST SAY NO. A simple "I can't do that" will usually get them to back right off.

This post is intended purely as a helpful tip to new notaries. I have been doing loan signings for years. Still, I was asked twice this month to back date. Once from a loan officer. Once from a signing service. These requests prompted this post. I just want to alert new notaries so they don't make a big mistake.

Please take this post in the helpful spirit it is given and don't think I am coming down on anyone except the creeps who try to get you to risk so much.

Reply by BrendaTX on 9/27/04 6:33am
Msg #8920

Re: Don't back date

Jennifer: Well said.

Reply by Anonymous on 9/27/04 7:17am
Msg #8921

I had something similar happen when I first started. The borrower was unwilling to make himself available that day. The scheduler insisted that I meet with him later in the week and backdate the docs. I told him that was illegal. He kept saying it was like driving over the speed limit. It's illegal but everyone does it. When I refused he said he would have to tell the title company and the lender that I cost them their loan. He said no one would be willing to work with me again. I told him to do to me whatever he thought he could and when he was done I would report this to the Attorney General's office and we would see who was still operating within the Commonwealth. He took a breath and apologized for the misunderstanding. Then he said if he had any more in my area he would call me. I ended it with, Please DON'T. You need to FIRMLY tell him NO!

Reply by BrendaTX on 9/27/04 8:38am
Msg #8922

Cindy:

Do what you believe is right.

There will always be veiled threats of being sued when you do not "fold" to do what you feel is wrong. In reality, the opposite is true. The best thing to do is to stick to YOUR values, ethics and notary rules. Hang in there.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/27/04 9:06am
Msg #8924

Do not backdate! You cannot be held liable. It was the borrowers decision not to be available to sign on the 25th, not yours. You were available!

Reply by Butterfly on 9/27/04 11:06am
Msg #8929

Welcome to the mortgage ethical business, lol. First, you did your job by calling the borrower both at home and work. His LO and Title Ofcr. should have explained to him the importance of signing on a particular date. From there on it is out of your hands. Talk about duress and illegal practice! I would report the Title Ofcr. for soliciting such practices! You will not be legally liable for this as you did your job. You can not controll the borrower, Title, and LO to do their job. They are now attempting to find a fall guy, you! Don't fall into it and do not let them bully you either.

Reply by SD girl on 9/27/04 11:33am
Msg #8931

HI, Fortunately I have never been asked to backdate BUT I was asked if I could leave all dates blank and just have the borrower sign all the document but not enter a date... I was actually told this by the borrower when I made the appointment. When I called the Loan Company that I have worked for before they explained that this was necessary to lock in the rate. I did not do this! This is the same as backdating in my mind, would you agree?

Reply by CarolynCO on 9/27/04 11:48am
Msg #8933

SD girl said "I was asked if I could leave all dates blank and just have the borrower sign all the document but not enter a date... I was actually told this by the borrower when I made the appointment. When I called the Loan Company that I have worked for before they explained that this was necessary to lock in the rate. "

As was discussed recently, it is also illegal to notarize blank documents.

Reply by mctinawall on 9/27/04 6:50pm
Msg #8956

NEVER Backdate! This is one of the first things you learn when attending NNA seminars. When a borrower does this to me I simply contact the lender/signing service and notify them the borrower was not able to keep the commitment and they need to contact that person to reschedule the signing.

Reply by Cindy on 9/27/04 11:39am
Msg #8932

Thank you all for your input, I informed the Title co that I would not backdate.
All of your responses here very helpful!

Reply by Anonymous on 9/27/04 2:00pm
Msg #8942

Sounds like their rate lock is going to expire and the broker will lose some of his spread if the lender does allow him a rate lock extension. I say this is the broker's problem as obivously he didn't properly explain the rate lock. Never Back date---never, never, never

Reply by Eliz_CA on 9/27/04 3:18pm
Msg #8948

If you begin notarizing at 11:50 pm, 9/21/04, is it ok to date all the documents 9/21/04 even though you have not completed notarizing by midnight?

Reply by Anonymous on 9/27/04 4:51pm
Msg #8950

Have them do all the docs that need to be notarized first. There isn' too many depending on the package. If you witnessed these docs signed before mid-night you are golden.

Reply by mctinawall on 9/27/04 6:53pm
Msg #8957

This is why you put the date/time in your journal. You arrived and began the signing on the required date, it's in your book.