Posted by Elizabeth_CA on 9/19/04 11:02am
Msg #8361

Jurats

I got a call from a SS after faxing requested docs after a signing. The rep gave me a heads up that certain lenders want the notary public to write down their name after "Subscribed and sworn to before me" (there was space after this). I told her that the notary manual does not indicate that and she should inform them it was not correct. She said she tried. Anyways, I didn't volunteer to add it. Did any of you get this comment?

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/19/04 11:07am
Msg #8363

When a document has:
Subscribed and sworn before me, by etc etc
as there is a space there I always write in "my name, notary public"

Reply by Elizabeth_CA on 9/19/04 11:10am
Msg #8365

but it doesn't have "before me, by" only "before me". Is that indicated on Florida's notary manual?

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/19/04 11:24am
Msg #8367

Oops - no, it doesn;t have "by", you are correct.

Florida's manual has the elements that must be on a notary certificate. As long as a certificate has all the elements it is fine. While that isn't one of the elements, it is acceptible as all the elements are on the certificate.

Usually the only document that I see that particular jurat on is the Signature/Name affidavit - and it never has all the elements on there, so I always have to add them in to make it conform.

I do not think you would have a problem putting your name, notary public on the certificate as long as the wording etc conforms to CA law.

Joan Bergstrom - or another CA notary would be able to help you better. Joan is a notary instructor, as well as a co-author of "How To Be A Wildly Successful Signing Agent" which I can recommend to all CA new signing agents.

Reply by CaliNotary on 12/5/04 11:32pm
Msg #12785

"Joan Bergstrom - or another CA notary would be able to help you better. Joan is a notary instructor, as well as a co-author of "How To Be A Wildly Successful Signing Agent" which I can recommend to all CA new signing agents."

Of course, Joan also runs radio commercials for her notary classes which state that there is a shortage of notaries in California, so I wouldn't necessarily count on her for accuracy and honesty.

The CA jurat regulations are changing effective January 1.

http://www.ss.ca.gov/business/notary/notary_jurat.htm

As you can see, it is not necessary to include the name of the notary in the wording of the jurat.

Reply by FB/CA on 9/19/04 11:27am
Msg #8368

The SS was correct

The SS was correct, your name and title go in that blank.

FB/CA http://www.berys.com/notary

Reply by Hampton/CA on 9/19/04 1:32pm
Msg #8371

Re: The SS was correct

Per the CA SOS office, you can add your name as long as the other elements are there.

Ultimately, the jurat is the notaries responsibility to fill in and no lender has the right or authority to tell us how to do this. It is our realm of responsibility. But it's no big deal to me, so whenever I see that wording, I always write in "Paul Hampton, notary public".

Reply by Elizabeth_Ca on 9/19/04 3:50pm
Msg #8377

Re: The SS was correct

Just to clarify, there isn't a blank line after "me". It's just space.

Subscribed and sworn before me
this day of , .

It is the Signature Affidavit. I guess it's no big deal writing my name after "me".

As a matter of fact, I think the only document that should comply with the notary manual word by word is the DOT/Mortgage (and the note if notarization is requested) or documents that will be recorded. As long as the other documents have "Subscribed and sworn" or "personally appeared" (sometimes I accept "personally came" I notarize it.

Reply by Elizabeth_CA on 9/19/04 4:39pm
Msg #8379

Re: The SS was correct

Just to clarify, there isn't a blank line after "me". It's just space.

Subscribed and sworn before me
this day of , .

It is the Signature Affidavit. I guess it's no big deal writing my name after "me".

As a matter of fact, I think the only document that should comply with the notary manual word by word is the DOT/Mortgage (and the note if notarization is requested) or documents that will be recorded. As long as the other documents have "Subscribed and sworn" or "personally appeared" (sometimes I accept "personally came") I notarize it.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/19/04 5:51pm
Msg #8382

Re: The SS was correct

After your name put notary public.

The main thing on all notary certificates is that all the elements necessary for your particular state are on there. The wording does not have to be "word for word".

Reply by Maureen/nh on 9/19/04 8:56pm
Msg #8398

Re: The SS was correct

Some will be preprinted "by the undersigned authority" or something to that effect. Some will say before a notaty public by and for the state of--I don't like those, I have to line out NP and put in JP

Reply by Jon on 9/19/04 9:05pm
Msg #8400

I just read the entire thread,

1. Current law does not prescribe content for a jurat, only an acknowledgment. I always add my name if there is room. The receiving agency has the option of not accepting the document if not completed the way they want it, even if it is completed correctly. If it is not against the law, I will usually conform to their request.

2. As of Jan. 1, 2005 you will no longer be allowed to add your name, as new legislation signed into law on 9/15/04 prescribes exact wording for a jurat(it will be in Government Code 8202).

3. On acknowledgements, Ca is specific with regards to the wording of an acknowledgment, so I would suggest adding an All Purpose Ack for those certificates that don't conform. Even if the document will never be recorded, we don't know that for certain and should perform all notarizations within the scope of applicable law.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 9/19/04 11:11pm
Msg #8410

The SS is correct with the wording on this particular Jurat. If there is a blank space after "Subscribe and Sworn before me" you need to put your name in the blank space. This is the wording that is on my "Loose Attachment Jurat Form. " I also sign the bottom line_______________. On this loose attachment I sign my name twice.
Notary Public

On my Jurat Stamp after "Subscribed and Sworn to before me" is the following: this_______day of,____,___.by___________________ and I sign my name on the bottom line_______________. name of client(s)
Notary Public

Caif. Notary law requires "Subscribe and Sworn" to be included in it's Jurat wording to be correct. For Acknowledgments the words "authorized capacity(ies) must be in the verbiage and if it is not the Calif. Notary needs to grab an "All-Purpose Loose Acknowledgment" form and attach it to the document.

I compare this to some forms that want you to print your name, or include exp. date, or list the venue again even though it is printed at the top of the form. I do what the form requires.
If for instance they don't require my name to "printed" under the signature line for a Notary I don't print my name.
I hope this helps! If you have more questions email me: [e-mail address].

Sylvia thanks for the nice comments.

Reply by Elizabeth_CA on 9/19/04 11:23pm
Msg #8411

Thank you all for your responses.

Reply by Eliz/CA on 12/5/04 6:18pm
Msg #12769

I thought for Acknowledgements the words "personally appeared" must be in the verbiage per the CA notary manual. Where in the manual (section or pg#) does it state that "authorized capacity(ies) must be in the verbiage?

Reply by CaliNotary on 12/5/04 11:40pm
Msg #12787

Joan Bergstrom writes:

"Caif. Notary law requires "Subscribe and Sworn" to be included in it's Jurat wording to be correct. For Acknowledgments the words "authorized capacity(ies) must be in the verbiage and if it is not the Calif. Notary needs to grab an "All-Purpose Loose Acknowledgment" form and attach it to the document."


Good lord Joan, how are you qualified to teach notaries in this state? For a CA acknowledgement the entire acknowledgement must be specifically worded, not just the words "authorized capacity". Do you really not know this?:

§ 1189. Certificate of acknowledgment; form; sufficiency of out of state acknowledgment; force and effect of acknowledgment under prior laws

(a) Any certificate of acknowledgment taken within this state shall be in substantially the following form:

SAMPLE CERTIFICATE OF ACKNOWLEDGMENT

State of California
County of ______________ } ss.
On __________ before me, (here insert name and title of the officer), personally appeared ________________________personally known to me (or proved to me on the basis of satisfactory evidence) to be the person(s) whose name(s) is/are subscribed to the within instrument and acknowledged to me that he/she/they executed the same in his/her/their authorized capacity(ies), and that by his/her/their signature(s) on the instrument the person(s), or the entity upon behalf of which the person(s) acted, executed the instrument.
WITNESS my hand and official seal.

Signature __________________________________


(Seal)

Reply by Eliz/CA on 12/5/04 11:52pm
Msg #12790

CaliNotary - on page 9 of the Notary Public Handbook it states that the key wording of an acknowledgment is "personally appeared." So as long as it has "personally appeared"..yadiyadiya..., wouldn't it be substantially the ack form?

Reply by CaliNotary on 12/6/04 12:32am
Msg #12796

Not really. What it states is:

"Key wording of an acknowledgment is "personally appeared." It is not acceptable to affix an acknowledgment to a document mailed or otherwise delivered to a notary whereby the signer did NOT personally appear before the notary, even if the signer is known by the notary. Also, it is not acceptable to affix a notary seal and signature to a document without the notarial wording. "

It's emphasizing that the signer MUST personally appear in front of the notary. It's a little confusing, I think they should have said "The key words in an ack...". But it's not referring to how the acknowledgement should be worded, it's just emphasizing that the key to acknowledging somebody is that they appear in front of you.

Remember, that part of the handbook is the "instructional" part. As such, it is less formally written than the "laws" part. The specific regulation states " Any certificate of acknowledgment taken within this state shall be in substantially the following form". "Substantially" in this case means that it can vary slightly. I've seen ID affadavits that don't have the (s) after person, only offer he/she but not "they" as an option, etc. Basically, anything parenthetical or with a / in it can be tailored to the specific form, but the other wording must stay exactly the same.