Posted by BrendaTX on 9/22/04 8:45am
Msg #8612

Question: "Corporate Notary?"

The other day I was in a reverse mortgage signing and the lender was there. He told me about a notary in his corporate office that caused a problem in a customer's paperwork when she took a faxed signature and notarized it, then sent it on with the documents to the title company.

As if that weren't enough to overload my brain, he went on to say that he knew that if she was a corporate notary that she could notarize signatures of the officers of the corporation all day without the signer being there.

Someone please enlighten me about this. I do not mean notarizing a faxed signature, I mean about a corporate notary. Is there a provision for a corporate notary who does not need the signer before them? That was a new one to me. I am showing my ignorance here, but I do not find anything to back up these claims, but he said it so convincingly that I have spent some time looking for this information and cannot find anything on it.

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 9/22/04 9:06am
Msg #8615

Brenda,

I don't know of any states where "personally appeared" is provisional. It is mandated that the physical person whose signature is being notarized appear before the Notary Public. This is a basic precept in notary law.

Paul/FL

Reply by sue on 9/22/04 9:50am
Msg #8617

in PA we do have one exception to the personal appearance and that is on acknowledgements. we don't have to see the signer sign if an attorney saw someone sign. we have a special acknowledgement to use.

a new notary (still waiting for her commission but completed her education classes) called me a few days go to ask about this business. As I spoke with her she told me of another local notary who told her that he could give her work already and he would notarize her acknowledgement that she saw the borrowers sign. ????????? She even knew this wasn't right and she hasn't notarized anything yet. Of course this same guy was going to sell her his contact list for 2 of our 5 surrounding counties? hello, it's the same list for everywhere. I guess we all try to make a buck somehow.

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 9/22/04 10:25am
Msg #8625

Oh yeah, I forgot 'bout PA's lawyer laws. Thanks Sue for the input and clarification.

Reply by BrendaTX on 9/22/04 10:00am
Msg #8620

Thank you. Call it "Notary Mythology."

I was almost too embarrassed to ask, but, like I said, he was so convincing I had to get some answers. I was quite shocked that he said that as he also stated he had been a Texas Notary for years.

I have scoured the laws for answers, but to no avail...THANKS Paul, for your input. I was hoping you'd help me out.

Reply by Jon on 9/22/04 4:13pm
Msg #8645

Ca law has one exception also called subscribing witness. The sw must see or hear the principal acknowledge the instrument, be willing to take an oath, sign their name to the document, and must be personally known by both the principal and the notary. The sw does have to appear before the notary.

Remember that if someone has been told something by someone they trust, most will assume it is true and state the "truth" very convincingly. I have had many conversations with notaries who have been told wrong information by the NNA and vehemently argue the "truth" of it even when I would reference law to the contrary.

Based on the description you gave above, the "corporate notary" is violating the law, at least he would be in CA.

Reply by Gerry Ashton on 9/22/04 6:39pm
Msg #8651

The only exception to the notary laws related to acknowledgements and corporations I've heard of is that, at least in Vermont, a corporate officer or shareholder who is also a notary public may take an acknowledgement to which the corporation is a party. (11 V.S.A. 231)

Reply by Bobbi in CT on 9/23/04 6:30pm
Msg #8731

No such thing as a "Corporate Notary"

Not saying right or wrong, just saying like it is. A "Notary Public" is a public official, other than civil law Notaries, there is only type of Notary Public in each state. There are no special or different laws for "corporate," "banking," "law firm," or "insurance" notaries.

In-house corporation, banking, insurance, and law firm notaries routinely notarize documents for non-present employers. Some just find a pile 'o papers on their desk and complete notarization blocks as "routine" and others get a stack dumped on their desk as the boss walks by.

An acknowledgment is that the Signer can previously sign the document, take it before the notary, and state "I acknowledge I signed these documents." Jurats are supposed to be signed before the notary. Of course, the employer often forgets to to tell the notary employee, yes I signed these and please notarize my signature.

In-house notaries in states with no notarial education requirements, no testing, no Journal, and employer paid commission and bond (many states don't require a bond or E&O) do not know any better. Either the boss says, "here's some papers that need notarization" and tells the notary what to do or the notary was taught by "the experienced notary" who was taught by an "experienced notary" who was taught by an "experienced notary" ...

Not saying it is right. It is just the way it is. Until a lawsuit arises, many companies do not take the purpose of a notarization block seriously, which is probably why many state agencies and companies are removing the Notary Public requirement and adding an "I certify" sentence by the signer to sign underneath.

Reply by HisHughness on 9/23/04 7:48pm
Msg #8744

Re: No such thing as a "Corporate Notary"

Among the worst offenders are lawyers.

Reply by BrendaTX on 9/23/04 9:38pm
Msg #8753

Re: No such thing as a "Corporate Notary"

Hugh: "Among the worst offenders are lawyers."

My experience was good with lawyers, Hugh.

They let me run things, and we got along just fine. If I said "sign this where I can see you," they said, "Yes Ma'am." However, we did dry, boring, tedious contested probate and real estate and it's not that easy to enlist someone for that.

I doubt that even I could whip you into shape. However, I think Carolyn from CO might be able to in double time. (;>)