Posted by Maria_NJ on 9/16/04 12:22pm
Msg #8073

non photo ID's

Hello all..I am a beginner. Can someone give me advice on what to do in the event a borrower presents you with a non-photo driver's license (and they do not have a passport). Is that form of identification acceptable? If it is not, how should I proceed? Thanks

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/16/04 12:44pm
Msg #8074

What are your state laws regarding identification???

Reply by Tina Marie Grimes on 9/16/04 12:44pm
Msg #8075

No, it is not an acceptable form of I.D. You need to see identification with their picture. Military I.D., student I.D. I've never heard of a drivers license without a photo.

Reply by Kim / NJ on 9/16/04 12:50pm
Msg #8077

Up until recently, NJ did not require photos on driver's licenses for drivers over the age of 21. I run into this about 50% of the time. Fortunately in all cases they had a passport as back-up identification.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/16/04 12:51pm
Msg #8078

I have seen drivers licenses (not from Florida) without a photo. Here it wouldn't be acceptable.

Marie needs to check NJ laws on what is and is not acceptable.

Reply by MarleneM/USNA on 9/16/04 12:51pm
Msg #8079

A non-photo ID may be issued in some states to individuals whose religion forbids them from having photographs ("graven images"). There may be other reasons as well (can't think of any offhand!).

Depending on your state's laws, consider using a credible witness for ID.

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 9/16/04 12:58pm
Msg #8082

Not all drivers licenses have pictures.

Not all Military ID's have pictures, though 99.99% do.

Student ID's typically are NOT acceptable identification in most states unless issued by the state. Same with picture credit cards and corporate identification cards.

State notary laws regarding identification vary widely from state to state. CIP/USA Patriot Act guidelines (which lenders must follow) stipulate what is acceptable and may or may not coincide with state regulations.

Reply by Paul_IL on 9/16/04 1:28pm
Msg #8085

Paw,
Gonna have to correct you on one point. As a former Air Force cop I will tell you this. ALL official military ID cards have photo's.

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 9/16/04 3:03pm
Msg #8091

Sorry, Paul, but I will disagree. (I'm retired Navy, btw.) When I was assigned NATO duty during Desert Storm, we were issued non-descript military ID. It did not have our name, picture or human readable description on it. It was a "smart card" in that a special reader was required to read the card. I don't know how many of these types of cards were issued and to whom, but that is the only instance I am aware of where a gov't issued military ID card didn't have a picture on it. (I thought it weird at the time, but then, there was a lot of weird things going on then.)

Reply by Paul_IL on 9/16/04 4:21pm
Msg #8101

Clarification, Yes Smart Cards and other types of ID exist but for our purposes here a notary is never gonna see one. Personel issued cards of that nature also have standard issue ID cards and would never consider presenting one to a civilian for ID purposes.

Reply by HisHughness on 9/16/04 7:41pm
Msg #8124

PAW amplified:

***we were issued non-descript military ID. It did not have our name, picture or human readable description on it.***

An ID card that doesn't have any identification on it. Only in the military.

An eye problem eliminated me from Air Force Cadet pilot training. The AF figured they didn't want me flying their 1,400 mph fighters if I was occasionally going to go blind on them. After six months of officer training, they gave me two choices: Become an airman basic, the lowest grade, or get out of the Air Force altogether. I chose the latter, figuring that any military organization that placed that little value on their officer training probably was not an organization that I'd feel really comfortable in.

Reply by Maria_NJ on 9/16/04 3:10pm
Msg #8094

Tina, there are several people in my state that have a paper license (non-photo)

Reply by Tina Marie Grimes on 9/16/04 5:22pm
Msg #8111

I guess I'm just not used to the idea of any I.D. card not having a picture. There's so much fraud happening today that it would be so easy if you didn't have to use a picture I.D. as identification. In California, even if you don't drive your I.D. still has your picture on it.

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 9/16/04 12:52pm
Msg #8080

Two issues here:

1) What are your state's (NJ) requirements for identifying the signer for the notarizations? According to the NJ Notary Public Manual, "Requirements for Taking an Acknowledgment
The Notary should: Ensure the signer appears before him/her and presents at least one form of identification (ID) that provides a physical description of the signer-- e.g., driver's license." This indicates that a description is required, but not necessarily a picture.

2) USA PATRIOT Act Compliance by the lender. The following is from the "Compliance Headquarter" web site:

USA PATRIOT Act section 326 states that for both a U.S. and a non-U.S. individual, an unexpired government-issued identification document evidencing nationality or residence and bearing a photograph or similar safeguard (like a finger print) “may” be sufficient to verify identity. Under this standard, a passport is an example of a document that may work.

Therefore, you must ask the lender what ID that want to accept.

Reply by Kim / NJ on 9/16/04 3:07pm
Msg #8092

Marie...

I just called the secretary of state (great help they are...) regarding this issue as it comes up a lot. I asked specifically about non-photo driver's license. I was told and was told "it's up to you" as to whether or not to accept it <great help, huh?> I then asked specifically if there was any law about it, and she said no. I am going to call again tomorrow to see if I can speak with someone else.

Reply by Maria_NJ on 9/16/04 3:19pm
Msg #8095

thanks Kim..If you find out more info, let me know. I was told that you can use a credible witness as a backup, but a credible witness has to be known to the borrower and the notary. So, a credible witness may be hard to come up with at the last minute. Someone else told me to get a thumb print (which state of NJ doesn't require) to cover yourself if in the event it comes back to haunt you. You'll at least have proper identification that way.

Reply by Elizabeth_CA on 9/16/04 5:23pm
Msg #8112

Re: non phoEto ID's

In CA, instead of using a credible witness who knows tha notary, we may use 2 credible witnesses (whose identities are proven by satisfactory evidence) who doesn't know the notary.

Reply by mimi_NJ on 9/16/04 3:25pm
Msg #8097

I have performed about 5-6 closings where the borrower had no photo DL. A few had passports, one had an expired Photo DL and others with non state issued photo IDs. I didn't worry much about it since the non photo drivers license met the state requirement. I have an ID Form I developed and use in this situation. I included the ID Certification form and copies of the IDs with the loan docs and also advised the lender of the situation. One lender did respond favorably by thanking me for the ID Certification Form.