Posted by Reggie on 4/9/05 9:47am
Msg #30658

About Victoria Ring

Would someone please tell me some specific details about what information in her book is not correct? Please be specific not just she is giving bad advice.

Reggie
Kansas

Reply by Melody on 4/9/05 10:26am
Msg #30665

Read message 30659 and Paul's next post "further." That will give you a start.

I have been shocked to read in her eNewsletters many errors regarding notary regulations. I can't remember them specifically now, but there have been lots!

I have been a notary in two states, so I know how regulations can differ. Victoria doesn't seem to take that into account. I have also seen notaries in her own state take her to task for getting her own state's regs wrong.

Brenda has been right when she says Victoria is a "marketing savant." Read her marketing stuff. Burn the rest.

Reply by Melody on 4/9/05 10:35am
Msg #30667

Why we want new people to search the forum first

Reggie, you are new but you have already asked several questions that would take a LOOOONG time to answer. That is why you and other new people don't get the responses you would like.

We oldies have already spent a LOT of time answering questions. We want the new people to take the time to read the old posts rather than expect us to give more time.

Search for messages by topic.
For regulations, search for messages from PaulFL (aka PAW) and Sylvia.
For the wittiest flaming on any board worldwide, search for messages by Hugh.

Be grateful us oldies can't sit still. We read and post on the forum while waiting for or printing eDocs.

Reply by Ted_MI on 4/9/05 10:45am
Msg #30669

Hi Reggie,

You want a specific example - fine. More than happy to oblige. In her book, "The Best of the Notary News" on page 5 she states : "both sides in a law suit or court case have an opportunity to cross-examine the deposition signer (called the "deponent")".

While I suppose what she says is technically correct, her statement does not really represent what goes on in the real world. Usually what happens is that the attorney who has scheduled the deposition, often of someone on the opposing side, usually asks all the questions.

And it is not really a cross-examination; it is a direct examination. A cross examination is a term usually reserved for what goes on at trial, when an attorney asks questions of a witness called by the oposing side.

Reply by Stephen_VA on 4/9/05 2:06pm
Msg #30694

Doesn't really sound like a capital offense to me.......

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/9/05 11:58am
Msg #30681

One error is in her current newsletter.
A notary from CT e-mailed her that he had done a loan signing and that the mortgage required another witness beside the notary. And the only witness available was 12 years old (although later it was said that the witness was 14), and the notary explained he couldn't use the 12 year old. The borrower called their attorney who was angry that the notary wouldn't use the minor daughter as a witness. They did get another witness but the notary asked Victoria how it should have been handled.

Victoria responded:

"Perhaps the attorney grew angry because you appeared to be in disagreement with him or her. In a situation like this, when an attorney is involved, I would have played the "humble" role and said something like: "I do not want to dispute your credibility but since my signature is going on this document I have been taught never to notarize a witness's signature if the party is under 18. Could you provide me with a validation that I can use if I should be cited on this matter? Or, what alternative resolution could we use to process this mortgage?"


Now the notary's signature may be going on the document, but they are notarizing the borrowers signature not the witnesses.

But over time there have been lots more errors.

You also have to understand that Victoria Ring only started doing this late 2001, and she told someone recently that she hasn't done a loan signing in 2 years, so she has not had a lot of experience doing loan signings. I would rather get my advice from someone who has been actively doing loan signings for a long time.

Reply by Bobbi in CT on 4/10/05 9:07am
Msg #30804

Another CT addition ...

The witness must be over the age of 18 and impartial or disinterested.

A minor child dependent on the parent borrower doesn't exactly fit that discription.

Any of the attorneys I know would be FURIOUS at VR's response. Notaries are not "taught" anything in CT. Paralegals are taught about witness requirements IF they take a real property class; however, it isn't what VR said. In CT, technically, it is considered by attorneys UPL for a non-attorney to decide what the witness requirements are on a document.

As a non-attorney member of the Connecticut Bar Association Real Property Committee I speak from "experienced listening" to what CT attorneys are saying about this industry and the horror stories they hear from borrowers and title companies.

Also, VR doesn't mention whether it is a CT attorney who is being challenged. CT does not allow out-of-state attorneys to practice here without being admitted to practice law in CT.

Reply by Joan-OH on 4/9/05 12:15pm
Msg #30686

#1 - In her newletter she stated that in Ohio, each page of the Mortgage needs to be initialed to record. I am in Ohio, and if there are no lines for initials, it doesn't get initialed and in over 1000 signings, I have never had one bounce.

#2 - She tends to "hear" something and pass it on without validating it. Like when she put in her newletter that there is a great deal on an HP 1012 and it would be great for edocs. That printer does not have pcl and IS NOT a great printer for edocs. On one of the boards, a signing agent felt "stuck" with this printer after purchasing it for edocs on her recommendation. Then when it came time to print, he/she couldn't.

It is quite frequent she is wrong in her newsletters. I haven't read her book, but read every newsletter.

She is a marketer, and quite a good one. That doesn't make her correct.

Reply by Reggie on 4/9/05 2:26pm
Msg #30702

Thanks everyone now I have a better understanding of Victoria Ring than I had before. I thought she was wrong in everything it turns out she may just have problems answering questions from different states. The fact she has not done any current signings is one that I will have to take and try to make sense of.

Melody thanks for giving me the message number to start a search with that helps.

Now I will start my search and see what I come up with.

Thanks oldies for your help.

Reggie
Kansas

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/9/05 2:40pm
Msg #30706

Re: About Victoria Ring - Joan

Do you remember the issue where she stated in her newsletter that a certain signing company had closed its doors. She hadn't verified the information and the signing company was still in business. When told that the company was still in business she said she doesn't check the information she is given, it is up to us to check it out.
(Must have taken a Dan Rather course <g>)

Reply by Reggie on 4/9/05 3:18pm
Msg #30719

Re: About Victoria Ring - Joan

No, I do not remember that issue I just started this month. I guess I'm going to have to do a little more research and reading.

Thanks Sylvia FL

Reggie2005
Kansas

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/9/05 3:55pm
Msg #30720

Re: About Victoria Ring - Joan

Sorry Reggie
I wasn't asking if you remembered the issue. I added "Joan" to the subject line to indicate I was asking her.
Should have put it in the message body I guess.

Reply by Ernest_CT on 4/9/05 7:20pm
Msg #30731

If Sylvia, on the other hand, were to write a book, ...

... I'd be the first (well, maybe not literally) in line to buy it. Sylvia has real-world experience as a NSA and as the owner of a signing service.

I have the feeling that Sylvia is too busy actually doing to be spending her time and energy writing....

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/9/05 7:28pm
Msg #30735

Re: If Sylvia, on the other hand, were to write a book, ...

Ernest
I have often thought of writing a manual - but it would be free.

But if anyone really wants an excellent training guide I can recommend the one available from the Signing Registry.
Also the manual How To Be A Wildly Successful Siging Agent is another excellent resource. Geared more towards California as far as the notarial information is concerned, but an excellent resource.

Reply by Ernest_CT on 4/9/05 7:34pm
Msg #30736

Thanks, Sylvia, for the book recommendations! n/m

Reply by Dave_CA on 4/9/05 7:49pm
Msg #30741

Re: If Sylvia, on the other hand, were to write a book, ...

I just want to strongly agree with Sylvia on her training recommendations.
Those two guides plus reading all of this forum will provide an excellent base for starting in this business.

JMHO

Reply by Ninna_La on 4/9/05 11:02pm
Msg #30781

I don't have any of her published books, but I do get her newsletter. Her credibility with me came into question when in one of her newsletters someone questioned why an rtc was not provided on an investment property. Victoria responded that she's never taken a signing that did not include an rtc and could think of no situation where an rtc would not be provided.

I immediately e-mailed her about this... and I'm sure alot of others did as well. She retracted her statement in the next newsletter, but the damage was already done. Even some of the fairly new agents know when and if an rtc is required. With her professed vast experience in the industry... she should definately know.

Reply by Reggie on 4/10/05 10:28am
Msg #30810

Thanks everyone who responded to my question. Now I know better than to take someone or something at face value. I will research my answers more before I make a decission.

Thanks again to all who responded to my question.


Reggie
Kansas

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/10/05 10:59am
Msg #30816

Nina
That is the problem, she does not have "vast eperience" in this field.
She started in 2001, and almost immediately wrote her "manual" which was free on her website (not the same as is there now) I e-mailed her and pointed out lots of errors, she thanked me, but I never saw the errors corrected.
Now, she has recently told someone that she hasn't done any signings in 2 years - so that would mean at the most she would have 2 years doing this, but another source has told me that she has actually only done about 8 or 9 signings.

And I have hired signing agents who have told me they have been doing this for several years, and you wouldn't believe the errors on their notarial certificates.

I know at classes I teach I sometimes have notaries who have been notaries for many years (one I distinctly remember had been a notary for 14 years) but who took the class as a "refresher",plus when they became notaries a class wasn't necessary. They all say they learned a lot of things they didn't know. Yet, the governors manual was available to them, they just didn't study.