Posted by Dorothy/MI on 4/22/05 11:00am Msg #33325
Almost everything you need to know to become successful
The following is a compilation from several experienced people that frequent this board, i.e., Brenda- TX (most of the list below is from her), Sylvia/FL, Art/MD. This appeared in a number of posts and I have copied and pasted it, and saved it for future reference, along with my general advice to newbies (Hugh, please excuse me for using your favorite term) that I usually post in response to questions about getting started.
If you know what a notary signing agent is, then you probably know whether or not you have enough background to wing it or whether you need to take a class.
Depending on the area that you are in, you may or may not be able to get work, i.e. many areas are saturated with notaries who fell for the NNA get rich quick scheme. Having said that, if you think you want to pursue this business, read every notary board you can find, learn all that you can learn, network (if possible) with other notaries and MARKET, MARKET, MARKET yourself. There is no fast road to success. Also be sure that you want the life style that we have to live (last minute signings, slow and or low pay, not being able to have much of a social life, especially from the 15th to the 25th of each month, be prepared to sit at a kitchen table trying to work while dinner was cooking, phones ringing and borrowers jumping up to answer, kids screaming, dogs barking, couples fighting, etc). All of us could tell you stories that would either curl your hair, or make it fall out,. You also should be someone who does not require a structured life because in this business (if you treat it like a business and not just pin money) almost everything is subject to change. It is not unusual to have five signings in your appointment book and end up with one or none due to cancellations or rescheduling! You will have little or no control over your schedule; you might have one for 9 a.m. and not another thing until 8 or 9 p.m. or 4 or 5 one day and then none for the next several days. And the problem with starting new in a saturated market is that everyone wants experience and references. When I started 3 years ago the business was at its zenith and the first 2 or 3 months, I was lucky to get 2 or 3 signings a week and I turned down nothing! I also worked at least 40 hours a week just trying to get business. Also, you will need a fast computer, a hi speed internet connection, a fast laser printer(PCL6), a plain paper fax machine, a copier, a reliable car and a cell phone with at least 1500 anytime minutes. Don't expect to recoup your initial investment for at least six to twelve months.
Here are some suggestions:
(1) Purchase Kathy Poston's book (see http://www.signingregistry.info) Consider the Signing Registry's mentor program.
(2) Purchase Monica's book (see http://www.amrnotary.com)
(3) Make sure to learn your state notary laws well.
(4) Do a google search for notary signing agent training.
(5) Read http://www.gomobilenotary.com and this forum to get the feel for what the job involves.
(6) Consult the Small Business Admin's site at http://www.sba.gov to learn how to research your area's opportunity. Crunch the numbers and see if you think you can make a business of it by the area you will serve.
(7) Consider buying Laura Vestanen's book on developing non-loan business. See her website at http://www.professionalnotary.com. Her book is about $10.
(8) Advertise yourself here for free as a mobile notary. Better idea - purchase the $39.95 membership and use the zip code tool and the list of signing services to market yourself.
(9) Read the link listed in my profile on what I did to get started.
(10) Ask your state's Secretary of State office if they recommend any courses for you.
(11) When you post here, if you want to get more specific help, create yourself a handle and include your state's two letter abbreviation (BrendaTX, for instance)
(12) Read http://www.NotaryDepot.com - get a free advertisement there.
(13) Get a website. (Try http://design.adaptiveview.com/ - $200 for the whole thing.)
(14) Have business cards made. (http://www.vistaprint.com)
(15) Some say read http://50statenotary.com, and some say not to read it. Victoria Ring writes a book with a good overview on the business. (Disclaimer: don't take anything anyone says at face value...do your own research, but you can get "concepts" from her book.) There is a section in her newest edition on marketing to title companies and lenders, if you are interested.
(16) Read forums and email a notary from your state, but don't pick someone from your own backyard or you may be disappointed. For instance, I would never train my competition. I think it's foolish to be trained BY your competition. A notary four hours away might be willing to chat awhile on the phone with you about how to get started for YOUR area.
(17) Peruse used book stores/thrift stores/library used book sales and pick up books on related industries such as mortgage, finance, real estate, property law.
(18) Consider a real estate finance class (Thanks Joan OH)
(19) Contact http://www.wildsignings.com for information on their training course. They sell a book.
(20) About documents - Learn what these documents are:
AFFIDAVIT FOR HOME EQUITY TRANSACTION- AFFIDAVIT OF MARITAL STATUS- AMORTIZATION SCHEDULE- APPLICATION FOR P.A.I.D. PROGRAM- AUTHORIZATION TO CANCEL CREDIT LINE- BALLOON NOTE ADDENDUM- BALLOON RIDER- COMPLIANCE AGREEMENT- CONDOMINIUM RIDER- CORRECTION AGREEMENT LIMITED POWER OF ATTORNEY- DESIGNATION OF HOMESTEAD AFFIDAVIT- DOCUMENT CORRECTION AGREEMENT- ESCROW ACCOUNTING ADDENDUM- ESCROW DISCLOSURE FORM- FIRST PAYMENT COUPON- ID LETTER –OR-IDENTITY STATEMENT- INFORMATION PRIVACY ACT- INITIAL ESCROW DISCLOSURE STATEMENT- MORTGAGE OR DEED OF TRUST- NAME AFFIDAVIT- NON-IDENTITY AFFIDAVIT- NOTE- NOTICE OF ASSIGNMENT, SALE OR TRANSFER OF SERVICING RIGHTS- NOTICE OF PURCHASER- NOTICE OR RIGHT TO CANCEL OR RIGHT OF RECISSION- ONE AND THE SAME NAME AFFIDAVIT- OWNERS AFFIDAVIT- PAY OFF DEPARTMENT- PAYOFF AFFIDAVIT- PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT RIDER- QUIT CLAIM DEED- REAL ESTATE ESCROW AFFIDAVIT- REFINANCE AFFIDAVIT- REQUEST FOR COPY OF TRANSCRIPT OF TAX FORM 4506- SECOND HOME RIDER- SETTLEMENT STATEMENT & SETTLEMENT CHARGES- SIGNATURE CERTIFICATE AFFIDAVIT- SURVEY AFFIDAVIT- TRANSFER OF LIEN- TRUTH IN LENDING- UNIFORM RESIDENTAIL LOAN APPLICATION- W-9 WAIVER OF ESCROW ACCOUNT-
~Some of these forms will be available to see listed at http://www.efanniemae.com/ ~
Specifically at this link you can look for forms: http://www.efanniemae.com/singlefamily/sf_forms.jhtml
(Find a brief explanation of these at http://www.nbsigning.com/dwnlds.htm [thank you Dogmonger!])
(21) Determine all zip codes you will service. Make a chart in Excel with these Column Headings
Zip - City - County - Travel Fee - Base Fee - Total Overnight Fee - Total eDocs Fee - Travel Time -
(22) Figure these amounts for every Zip Code you service. Keep the chart over your desk, in your car and in your calendar.
(23) If you want to use a calendar online, try http://my.calendars.net
Buy an HP laser printer with the correct PCL drivers Buy a fax machine (for outgoing faxes) Subscribe to MaxEmail for incoming faxes Buy a copier (or just get an all-in-one) Make sure you have a cell phone with good reception and plenty of minutes. Better to have DSL or Cable for downloading edocs. Stock in Bayer aspirin for the headaches
Consider getting a digital recorder. Use to make notes etc while driving. Unless you have 4 hands, it's hard to drive, drink coffee, write down a phone number and name at the same time.
Always make sure you have ample supplies of legal paper, and refill toner for the printer cartridge.
If you do all of the above, YOU WILL BE A SUCCESSFUL SIGNING AGENT. However, there are no short cuts that I am aware of unless you have an uncle in the business.
Reply by Brenda Stone on 4/22/05 11:07am Msg #33328
Good job, Dorothy-MI! n/m
Reply by Mary Mantz on 4/22/05 4:42pm Msg #33398
Thank you again, Dorothy and Brenda, et al!!
This is really, really gracious of you guys, and it is SOOO appreciated! Thank you, thank you! You deserve a LOT of gratitude, so please accept mine. mmary
Reply by anon on 4/22/05 11:48am Msg #33332
further evidence of a slow down
Reply by Anya/LA (CA) on 4/22/05 1:04pm Msg #33351
Loan Signer Training
I want to tell the group that I took the Wildly Successful Loan Signing Class offered through Notary Classes and LEARNED SO MUCH! It was a great day (long day) full of practical, real-life notary loan signer skills that has saved me! Of course, my first signing was a nightmare but my instrucotr, Kelly Robinson, was great and I remembered aloot of what she told us. I would recommend this class to anyone who really wants to be successful (I'm not sure if they teach other areas?). Email me and I will give you her email address. Thank you, Anya (Los Angeles)
Reply by MaggieMae_CA on 4/22/05 3:23pm Msg #33388
Re: Loan Signer Training
I took Kelly's class in San Diego. She is awesome and inspiring to say the least. I've kept in touch with her outside of the class and she said the company has gone national. I don't know if the other instructors will be like her, but she's great.
Reply by Mary Mantz on 4/22/05 4:45pm Msg #33400
Re: Loan Signer Training
I live in DFW, TX, but I would love to know if this training is available here. (I don't know how to locate your email address, Anya.) Thanks! mmary
Reply by BrendaTX on 7/13/05 9:06am Msg #51553
Added to thread #33325-Counter-point View- NSA training
This counter-point view was added for consideration on 07/13/05 after request by Carolyn/CO. Thanks Carolyn.
Re: Training worth the time and investment Posted by CaliNotary on 7/13/05 1:58am Msg #51513 from logged in user
I don't think any of us have a problem with the fact that notaryclasses.com exists. Education, especially in this industry, is a great thing. The problem is that their advertising is more like that of a get rich quick scheme than that of a school that aims to create professionals.
While I appreciate the fact that D. Jones took the time to give a thorough explanation of his point of view, look at how much of his post focuses on how much money we can or should be making. To take him at face value, the only reason we're all not making $100K per year is because we're not marketing ourselves effectively enough.
And what about his statement "Yet, lets be real about this.... signing agents make $100 and up (in fact way up) for a 45 minute signing." Are all of your signings $100 and up Maggie? I know mine sure aren't. In fact, I've never once come across a signing service who has a base fee of $100. And lets be real about this, signing services are the bread and butter for most of us on this board. But look how easily he just ignores THAT fact.
Yes, it is possible to make over $100 for a signing. Yes, it is possible to make over $100K per year doing this job. But those are definitely exceptions to the rule, especially for brand new signing agents, and IMO it's a sleazy marketing method to treat it like it's the norm when in reality only a miniscule percentage of their graduates will make anywhere remotely near what is being stated in their ads.
I'm also seeing that it's their standard MO to use "just focus on your own business and don't worry about the competition" as a rationale. While I am not worried about new agents directly taking my business away from me, I am absolutely worried about the indirect effect that this flood of new, incompetent, and untrained signing agents is having on the industry as a whole. Look at the some of the ridiculously low fees that are being offered to us. Look at the increasing amount of faxbacks and handholding that we're dealing with because these companies can no longer assume that their signing agents actually know how to do the job. It's the ripple effect I'm concerned about, not the direct competition.
I agree that you reap what you sow, but I really don't want to have to continue to reap what notaryclasses.com has sown for us. If they keep this up I'm afraid we'll be sown right into an attorney only signing state.
Reply by Carlos/CA on 12/10/10 12:10pm Msg #364609
Re: Loan Signer Training
I would be very insterested in taking a loan signing class but I don't seem to find any in my area (Palm Sprigs, CA). Do you have a way for me to contact Kelly Robinson to see if she can help me connect with a nearby class. Thanks very much.
Reply by Stephen_VA on 4/22/05 2:51pm Msg #33379
Re: further evidence of a slow down
Did someone pee in your Cheerios??
Reply by chelleCA on 4/22/05 2:11pm Msg #33363
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!! I have been trying to reading all the messages on the board for a while now. This help a lot. I actually have my first signing on monday and I am very nervous!!
Thanks again..
Reply by Knotaree DC on 4/22/05 3:49pm Msg #33390
This is so truly wonderful. I know it doesnt take much "smarts" to do this, and seeing everthing there is to know compiled on a bout a page confirms it. Thank you.
Reply by JanetK/CA on 7/18/05 12:33am Msg #52879
Re: ALMOST everything you need to know to become successful
Don't forget the "ALMOST" before "everything you need to know". There is *always* more to learn. If we ever get to the point where we think we know everything, we're in trouble! Since so many read this thread, I thought it important to make that clear...
Reply by BrendaTX on 7/14/05 11:00am Msg #52029
Details and Accuracy are Important - adding to #33325
Below are notes from John/SLB, PAW-FL, BrendaTx
Re: Perspective of a Signing Agency Posted by John from SLB on 7/14/05 8:56am Msg #51959 from 68.205.205.236
As Sherry says... it is hard to keep track of each part-timer's hours of availability, so we tend to hire those people who have no restrictions. One exception, is the closer who has a day job and is available only after 5PM or on weekends. We do use those if they are experienced.
The only other thing we tend to do is look for either: 1) a notary who has done many, many closings, but is not certified; or 2) a certified signing agent, who maybe has done fewer closings but has gone "the extra mile" with certification.
I also should mention... I personally won't even call a potential closer if their on-line resume on any of the various industry web site has errors, mis-spellings or poor grammer. I only hire those closers who cared enough about the job to enter a professional looking resume and answer all the questions.
----------------------
PAW-FL Says in #51061:
Thank you John for saying that. I too am a very firm believer that one's use of the English language, including typographical errors and grammatical mistakes, is a direct reflection on how one performs their job. Having been a hiring manager for many years, I saw this play out all too often. And lately, it just seems that there is way too many that don't take the time to do it right, either by ignorance or just being lazy.
There <> Their <> They're is my pet peeve of the week.
---------------------
BrendaTx (Adding) Here are some examples of common mistakes:
* Do - Due Do = Do you know what time it is? Due = What is the due date?
* Know - No Know = Do you know? No = No I don't know.
* Knew - New Knew = I knew her before you did. New = Is that dress new?
* Advice - Advise Advice = You give good advice. Advise = I will advise you what to do.
* You're - Your You're = You are a good speller. Your = That is your choice.
*They're - There - Their They're = They are = They are here. There = There is my cap! Their = Their shoes are over there.
* Who's - Whose Who's = Who is going with us? Whose = Whose books are those?
* Its - It's It's = It is time for us to leave. Its = The flashlight was new and its light was bright.
* Lose - Loose Lose - Did you lose a client? Loose - Did you attach a loose certificate?
* Notary Public NOT Notary of Public NOT Notary Republic
* More than one notary Notaries Public NOT notarys public NOT Notary Publics
* Notary Commission or Notary License It is not "I got my notary." What you got was your notary commission or your notary license.
* Notarial Certificate It is not, "I attached my notary." It is "I attached a certificate."
* Notarial NOT Notorial
----------------------
Here is a clue that you are young, lazy and inexperienced:
"How do u know what 2 attach 4 this?"
Reply by Laura_NH on 4/22/05 10:50pm Msg #33463
This is PRICELESS!!!! Thank you so much! Thanks to you and the others who helped, I now know that I am on the right track. I am so thankful that you took the time to compile this information to help us newbies. Now, THIS should be the email that is referenced to the newbies so they know what to do. Please accept my utmost thanks and gratitude! laura
Reply by Sansan7 on 5/18/05 9:11pm Msg #38900
Thank you so much! These are great suggestions I am going to print them and keep them taped to my comuter for now! Thanks!
Reply by David Woodul on 5/30/05 5:30pm Msg #41233
This is great information. Tahnkyou soo mcuh for going to the trouble to help everyone!!! Appreciate it !!!
Reply by Elda Garibay on 6/1/05 2:17pm Msg #41545
CA-Almost everything you need to know to become successful
WOW! THANKS SO MUCH!!!!!
Reply by sweetpea, al on 6/1/05 5:50pm Msg #41631
Thanks so much, this is the best thing since baked apple pie.
Reply by nkroyall on 6/7/05 4:17pm Msg #43001
Thank you so much! You've covered so many questions that I had rolling through my braincells.
Reply by Dorothy/MI on 6/13/05 8:57am Msg #44234
Additional information - Not an entitlement
*** THEY TOO were once a "NEWBIE" *** These are words that we all have heard time and time again. Brenda posted this answer to a similar thread and mine follows hers:
From Brenda: Don't give up on your dream of having a business, but use your smarts to find a business that you know something about. IMHO, you came too late with too little to this one. Cut your losses and move on.
I. I had a call from a woman who first called notaries in her area (DFW, Texas) for all the answers. They gave her some solid direction by telling her to start reading this board and to do internet research. Finally gave her a really straight answer "I am not the best one to ask, you are my competition." Then, they quit taking her calls because they realized she was not a self-starter and had this sense of entitlement that they should take half an hour from their work and focus on her needs. One of them told her to read my website and she found me and called. I told her the same about the others she had called and gave her all the info I give any "newbie" I have never heard of which is basically my contribution to message #33325, plus info on my inspection work which is in my newsletter blog and also in this board as well.
She read it and wrote back asking me questions that were already answered in the sources I gave her. I wrote her back and told her that it had taken me nearly two years to rise to the top of my heap without any direction except by taking an inventory of what I knew, therefore, that she should go back and read the info I had given her plus to expect the same (or longer) learning curve.
II. I know a notary in another state who has started a totally unrelated business. She's doing her research on her new business and working night and day to get her business of the ground. She has studied, built a viable business plan, and even waited hours for an opportunity at the gates to visit key persons of a foreign embassy in her quest to start her business. That's the kind of determination you need to start a new business.
You don't get answers handed to you IF you are serious. If you want to get rich quick, find a wealthy relative and cozy up to them.
By the way, the total number of competitive businesses she has asked to mentor her or to train her is zero.
III. Stop treating this like learning how to knit, cross stitch or run a hobby club. This is a business.
If you are in business, it implies you already know something about how to do the job.
If you are a newbie without experience or tight connections into mortgage, legal, title or real estate transactions...seriously...you have been scammed by your own laziness and unwillingness to crunch numbers, do research, develop a business plan and to establish a marketing plan.
Find something to do which you have a "bent" for. If you don't have some kind of background leading you into this business...wake up, folks. The refi boom is over. You will get nothing but the dregs and scraps of jobs that probably won't pay you.
AGAIN, I am not being a dream-stomper, or a negative person: Don't give up on your dream of having a business, but use your smarts to find a business that you know something about.
You came too late with too little to this one. Cut your losses and move on.
IV. Here is an example of what you are doing:
I have never done windshield repair or state auto inspections. I see there is a lot of business here in town for that. I don't have a place to do this type of work. However, I hear the business is good. Today I think I will go around and ask the successful businesses if I can find out where I should locate my business for the best possible success...I want to find out how much they charge so I can be a little bit cheaper. I want them to tell me what business licenses I need, what regulations I need to learn, what state licenses I need. (If they gave me answers to these questions, WHY would I believe them???)
Oh yeah, and suppose they have a forum where these things are discussed online. I am too busy to read through their chatter...there's too much bull to wade through...surely they can just tell me exactly what I want to know, when I want to know it while I take notes. All the answers are there on that forum but it's too time consuming, you see. I am busy with other things. I want it given to me in a direct line at my convenience.
From Dorothy: If you are thinking about applying with a title company to do loan signings and you have not successful completed at LEAST 50 signings (100 is my recommendation) do yourself the biggest favor you could do and don't submit an application to these venues. Title companies are entirely UNFORGIVING if you make a mistake and if in conversation with them you don't sound like you know what you're talking about you will NEVER get work from them. There is a reason why we all have to learn to crawl before we walk and learn to walk before we can run. There are NO SHORTCUTS!!! Get much, much more knowledge and experience before you even attempt to get work from a title company. This is not that we don't want the competition, but that we don't want an unknowledgeble person literally ruining the business as a whole. Are you aware that there are several states that only attorneys can do closing in and we don't want this to spread to others because someone was looking for quick, easy money and really screwed something up, it got to court and then got the attention of the bar association and the states legislature and they decided to "protect" the public. Any of us who have been doing this profession (and it is a real profession and a real business) for any length of time whether we are doing it full time or as a dedicated part timer realizes this. Newbies come on this board and accuse us of being selfish all the time. It is not that, there are many on this board who will be glad to share information with anyone, but first you have to do your part and obtain as much information as you can on your own (that's the only true way any of us have of learning). Hugh, is one example (there are many others, of course) of someone who is extremely generous with his legal knowledge and shares it all the time. Just because you don't like the language it is couched in does not invalidate the knowledge itself!
This will probably stir up a hornet's nest from people reading this board who feel they have a sense of entitlement to be given "all" the answers and should only be spoken to with the kindest words and in the gentlest way so they can "feel" good. Remember back to our school days and the teachers we gained the most from were not always the most pleasant, the most fun, but the ones who were the real task masters and made us apply ourselves. The knowledge we acquired in thos classes stuck with us forever.
Reply by BrendaTX on 6/13/05 9:32am Msg #44236
Bookmark 'em
Msg #33325 - Read for info on how to get started
Msg #44234 - Additional information - Not an entitlement
(Thanks Dorothy!)
Reply by Judith_VA on 6/13/05 3:00pm Msg #44341
Re: Additional information - Not an entitlement
Bravo!!!! I spent weeks and hours upon hours reading reasearching before I ever signed up with any agency and I have a lot of mortgage banking experience! I did a plan using a lot of the info I got off this web site, determined my investement costs, projections of income, checked out the competition... There is a reason they say knowledge is power and why the most successful people set goals and be prepared in season and out and market, market, market. Finally, I will never stop being a student of the business.
To those of you that have walked the path before me - thank you. The insights and experiences shared are truely (wish they had spell check on the post message feature) appreciated. What you have (and many times, whithout knowing it) invested into my life, I will and have passed on, not in an enabling way, but to encourage others who are even in other fields, because after all business is business.
So, again I say thank you!
Reply by SamIam_CA on 6/13/05 3:27pm Msg #44349
Re: Additional information - spell check
I agree with everything you posted! Additionally - there is a way to spell check your posts. I think it was Paw who gave the link several weeks ago. Try www.ieSpell.com I'm not sure if that is correct or not, but it will probably get you in the right direction. The download was FREE!
Reply by BrendaTx on 6/13/05 9:32pm Msg #44448
Recommended Reading: As a new NSA..here is my perspective
As a new NSA..here is my perspective Posted by Nicole_NCali on 6/13/05 12:13pm Msg #44273 from logged in user
After reading alot of the posts below and from the past, I do have to agree that the questions are redundant at best. Most of the knowledge that I have gleaned has been from reading the posts on here, gomobilenotary and the signing registry. I also pick out messages by Paw, sylviafl, Brendatx, calinotary, shoshana, hishughness, etc..
What the newbies fail to realize is, this is business, nothing personal, but business. I have worked for private industry for a couple of years, and I have never seen my company ask it's competitor for mentoring and vice versa. That is stupid, what you can do is look at how the other company functions and incorporate their ideas into yours.
As a business, you must be able to deliver a better product, at a competitive price, after studying your market. Once you understand your market, that is when you start the marketing. If you don't have a solid business plan, then you will not be successful, no matter how much mentoring you request. Essentially, you must find your niche and research you endeavor for yourself. Go to the market that you want to attain business from and find out what they require, not your competition. (Ever heard of focus groups)
I was a new SA, but not a new notary. I have notarized documents aside from Loan documents for over 5 years now. I came to this board for the loan document perspective. I did take the NNA Signing Agent certification, but it was incomplete at best. The best information that I have attained and retained has been from researching the information for myself.
As an aside, this trend of newbies is also prevalent on the appraiser forums too. I signed up with this website to understand exactly what is expected from appraisers and to understand the market. I have been reading their forum for over 4 months and I have not posted a question yet. The idea is to glean as much information using my own sweat, without posting silly questions..
This is just from a newbie's perspective
Reply by BrendaTx on 6/13/05 9:33pm Msg #44449
Re: Recommended Reading: Added Nicole to #33325 thread n/m
Reply by NJDiva on 9/29/10 10:00pm Msg #354807
Re: Additional information - Not an entitlement
OMGOSH, OMG, OMG! Dorothy/MI, I LOVE you! I've been in this business almost 6 years and am FINALLY established. Good pay, good companies and getting more firmly established.
It's taken me quite a while and as you said, hard work and learning. This site and other forums like this HELPED, but a lot of it I had to learn by experience.
I must admit though, I learn something new from these sites every time I come on.
One thing I'd like to stress is that if you are new, please set your prices with no less than $XXX. Because just know that the cost of expenses is going up and if we keep cut throating each other eventually (well already really) we may as well just send the toner, paper, supplies etc right to the SS's because they're suckering it out of us anyway!!! lmao
They dial the phone, you do everything else and pay for the supplies too!!! LMAO UH, DUH!
Thanks again Dorothy! xo xo xo
Reply by BrendaTx on 6/13/05 9:36pm Msg #44451
Adding to "Success" thread #33325 - Here's eDoc practice.
Posted by BrendaTX on 6/13/05 8:31pm Msg #44429 from logged in user
For those of you who are wondering if you can print eDocs which are downloaded from the web, there is a way to test your ability to do so for at least one type. It will give you the general idea. (I got the links from a message posted back in the spring on the Notaries Wanted Forum here on NotaryRotary.com.)
1) Download the "PCL INDEX" utilities ( http://www.mrgdocs.com/download/mrgpclindex.exe ) in your download directory or your desktop and save it.
2) If the program does not set up automatically, do the set up.
3) Then go to http://www.lenderssigningservice.com/testfile.mrf and download that file to your desktop.
4) On my computer, the program set up in number 1 above, does not show up in my list of programs (the one at [start] button), so I use explorer.exe to navigate around until I find the program. Do Right click [start] || Explore
5) If your computer puts programs in the same place mine does, by default, you can go into C:\Program Files\MRGDocs\PCLIndex\BIN and double click on PCLIndex.exe to run the print utility.
It will open up a window.
6)In this printer utility, go to ||File||Open|| and
7)Remembering you left the testfile.mrf on the Desktop, now navigate to your Desktop. (This is the file you downloaded in number 3) Double click on it to open.
8) You will have a list of docs.
9) Check (select) one or more of the docs listed.
10) Go up to ||Print|| and select your HP //or PCL// capable printer, if it is not already selected.
11) Next, while having ||Print|| open, make a selection of how much you want to print.
If you are PCL capable to the extent this eDoc utility requires you should be able to do it.
You should have docs printing without further work.
Reply by BrendaTX on 6/17/05 8:51am Msg #45471
HP Printers/Printer Command Language (PCL) by PAW_Fl
Adding this priceless post to our recommended reading for new people:
HP's History Of Printer Command Language (PCL) Posted by PAW_Fl on 6/17/05 8:19am
HP's History Of Printer Command Language (PCL)
In order to provide an efficient and effective way to control printer features across many different printing devices, HP created PCL. PCL was originally conceived and devised for HP's dot matrix and Inkjet printers. The first printer in HP's LaserJet series, the HP LaserJet was released in 1984 with the PCL 3 version of the language.
PCL commands are compact escape sequence codes that are embedded in the print job before being sent to the printer. Issuance of the sequence was relatively easy from any high level language or from assembler. HP PCL formatters and fonts were designed to quickly translate application output into high-quality, device-specific, raster print images. The PCL printer language is common to virtually all HP printers, but not universal and not always backward compatible. This conceptual thinking enabled HP to minimize printer support problems and protect HP printer investment in applications and printer driver software. It is why the HP laser printers quickly became the industry standard.
The PCL printer language is successful because the following points remain consistent across all levels:
1. All HP LaserJet series printers implement PCL printer language features consistently. 2. HP printers implement the PCL feature in very cost-effective formatters. 3. HP printers have the ability to ignore most unsupported commands without causing the printer or issuing device to crash.
There are six major levels of PCL. The creation of these levels was driven by the combination of printer technology developments, changing user needs and application software improvements. The first versions of PCL (PCL 1 and 2) were used in HP impact and Inkjet printers in the early 1980s. The major phases of the PCL printer language are as follows:
PCL 1 This version is supported by all HP LaserJet series printers (except the HP LaserJet 3100 and 3150 series products). It provided very basic printing and spacing functionality, but was limited to only text printing and ASCII characters. PCL 1 is the foundational base set of functions provided for simple, single-user workstation output. It was created in the late 1970s and introduced in the late 70s and early 80s.
PCL 2 As was PCL 1, this version is supported by all HP LaserJet series printers (except the HP LaserJet 3100 and 3150 series products). Hence it covered all PCL functionality and provided Electronic Data Processing/Transaction functionality. Functions were added for general purpose, multi-user system printing, but still in ASCII printing only. It was Introduced in the early part of 1982.
PCL 3 This was the first of the intelligent series of efforts by HP to incorporate graphics, crude as they were back then. It was the embedded code for the original HP LaserJet series printer, and the HP LaserJet Plus series printer. This version provided the commands and features required for simple high quality word processing and data printing. Allowed for the use of a limited number of bitmapped fonts and graphics. It quickly rose to the position of industry standard and PCL 3 was widely imitated by other printer manufacturers, commonly referred to as "LaserJet Plus Emulation" when used by other companies. It came out in 1984.
PCL 4 This industry standard release was the embedded code for the HP LaserJet Series II, commonly referred to as the workhorse laser, the HP LaserJet IID, HP LaserJet IIP, and HP LaserJet IIP Plus. It had a host of new page printing capabilities, including support for macros, larger bitmapped fonts and graphics. Introduced in 1985, it was the most radical of version improvements and would be more than sufficient for users for several years.
PCL 5 As the foundation of the HP LaserJet III, HP LaserJet IIID, HP LaserJet IIIP, and HP LaserJet IIISI, PCL 5 provided ultimate office publishing functionality. It was released to allow compatibility for industry acceptance for font scaling, outline fonts and HP-GL/2 (vector) graphics. PCL 5 was designed for more complex desktop publishing, graphic design, and presentation applications. Introduced in mid-1990 with the HP LaserJet III, this is the most widely used version of PCL compatibility in use by customers.
PCL 5E (Enhanced) Though it was labeled an enhancement to PCL 5, it was the internal code released with the HP LaserJet 4, HP LaserJet 4M, HP LaserJet 4L, HP LaserJet 4ML, HP LaserJet 4P, HP LaserJet 4MP, HP LaserJet 4Plus, HP LaserJet 4Mplus, HP LaserJet 5P, HP LaserJet 5MP, HP LaserJet 5L, HP LaserJet 5L-FS, HP LaserJet 5Lxtra, HP LaserJet 6L, HP LaserJet 6LXI, HP LaserJet 6LSE, HP LaserJet 6P, HP LaserJet 6MP, HP LaserJet 6PXI, HP LaserJet 6PSE and HP LaserJet 5si. HP LaserJet 8000 series, HP LaserJet 9000 series printers. It had major improvements and changes including bidirectional communication between the printer and the PC. It featured a wider selection of fonts for use primarily with the Microsoft Windows environment and applications.
PCL 5C (Color) This was also an enhancement to PCL 5 to add functional color support for HP Color LaserJet, HP Color LaserJet 5, HP Color LaserJet 5M, HP Color LaserJet 2500 series, HP Color LaserJet 4500 series, HP Color LaserJet 4550 series, HP Color LaserJet 4600 series, HP Color LaserJet 5500 series, HP Color LaserJet 8500 series and HP Color LaserJet 8550 series printers. It offered no other changes except the commands needed to support color printing.
PCL 6 This version offered significant changes in the backward compatibility issue for HP. PCL6 is very different from PCL5 and previous PCL versions. One significant difference is the manner in which the commands are sent to the printer. The target was performance and reliability; the jury is still out on the question of better. Prior to PCL 6, each new version of the language included commands not found in older versions as well as the older PCL commands. As a result, printers with more recent versions of PCL are backwards compatible with software that supports older versions of the language. PCL 6 was released with the HP LaserJet 4000 series, HP LaserJet 4100 series, HP LaserJet 2100 series, HP LaserJet 2200 series, HP LaserJet 1200, HP LaserJet 3200, HP LaserJet 3300, HP LaserJet 4200 series, HP LaserJet 4300 series, HP LaserJet 5000 series, HP LaserJet 5100 series, HP LaserJet 8000 series and HP LaserJet 9000 series printers. PCL 6 features new modular architecture that can be easily modified for future HP printers. The efforts for faster, post printing return to application have made somewhat of a problem with older operating systems. Other performance efforts are faster printing of complex graphics, more efficient data streams for reduced network traffic, better WYSIWYG printing, improved print quality, truer document fidelity, and complete backward compatibility. The compatibility issues have caused many users to select PCL 5 as the language version.
The PCL printer commands activate the printer features. Be design, HP provided four general types of HP printer language commands. Control codes, PCL commands, HP-GL/2 commands and PJL commands.
A control code is a character that initiates a printer function (for example, Carriage Return (CR), Line Feed (LF), Form Feed (FF), etc.).
PCL commands provide access to the printer's PCL control structure. The PCL structure controls all of the printer's features except those used for vector graphics, which are controlled by the HP-GL/2 commands. PCL commands (other than single-character control codes) are also referred to as "escape sequences." That design provided very easy use from high level programming languages and in reality, made the PCL the industry standard. The terms are used interchangeably. Once a PCL command sets a feature of the printer that feature remains set until that PCL command is repeated with a new value, or the printer is reset to default. In other words you turn on the feature and then turn it off.
HP-GL/2 (vector graphic) commands are two letter codes that represent the function of the command (such as IN for initialize). After the two-letter mnemonic, there may be one or more parameters that identify details of how to process the command.
HP made great efforts to yield an ease on selecting feature and capabilities in the PCL designs and procedures. That ease rewarded HP with the popularity that is second to none in the industry for laser printers. They have been active in creating other printer languages and utilities as well, such as PJL, a JCL type language and utility.
Reply by katsr_CA on 8/31/05 2:40pm Msg #62956
Re: Adding to "Success" thread #33325 - Here's eDoc practice.
These are such wonderful instructions Brenda! Great practice so I won't be quite as nervous when I do my first signing. Unfortunately the testfile will not open with the proper encoding on my computer. I'm so glad I tried this first. Have tried opening it with Word and Acrobat and just get gibberish. Any gurus out there?
Reply by DTNotaries on 3/16/06 6:59pm Msg #105920
Re: Adding to "Success" thread #33325 - Here's eDoc practice.
There is a great blue signing agent cd for sale at ebay.com key words are notary public or signing agent, it even has a video clip but it can only be played in your computer
Reply by Jodith/WA on 1/2/10 6:25pm Msg #316435
Re: 2nd link doesn't work any longer
It looks like the link: http://www.lenderssigningservice.com/testfile.mrf
no longer works.
I tried googling lender signing service as well as testfile.mrf, but didn't find anything that looked right. Anyone know if this is still available and where?
Reply by BrendaTx on 1/2/10 6:31pm Msg #316436
Jodith, this is a very old thread (4 years)
Naturally, some of the things are not going to continue to work as the business has changed and what was here yestereday is gone tomorrow. Good luck with your endeavors.
Reply by Jodith Allen on 1/2/10 6:39pm Msg #316437
Re: Jodith, this is a very old thread (4 years)
Yeah, I kind of figured that, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask, just in case *grins*.
Reply by Dorothy/MI on 6/16/05 9:55pm Msg #45377
Re: More advice from Brenda/TX
What some people call trashing/bashing... Posted by BrendaTX on 6/16/05 9:41pm Msg #45370 from logged in user
Yeah, Dog...What some people call trashing/bashing are straight answers.
--------- The very best one piece of advice I have ever recieved on my business is:
::Never, ever show emotional reactions ::where your business is concerned. ::Be dignified and be sure of yourself.
Allowing perfect strangers hurt you with words on a notary forum you means you are not made for this job. You are going to be a pawn -- others control you because you let them.
If people who disagree with your opinions or methods cause you anger, ask yourself , "Why let other people's opinions have so much weight?" If you are right, you are right. Ignore them. Agree to disagree.
The world is full of jackasses - especially in our business...not JUST gripey old curmudgeon notaries, but downright pathological narcissistic evil people who will walk all over you to make a dollar. Know your stuff and be confident or you will be used up like toilet paper.
Get a tougher skin or you'll fold under pressure to do illegal notary acts. If you cannot take a truthful answer (or even a rude bashing) on this forum because it angers you...you are the "weakest link."
Whining and fussing about tones of posts by perfect strangers reveal that you cannot be graceful under pressure. This says you are going to get emotional if a bwr does. Indifferent rudeness -- even detached arrogance -- is a heck of a lot better at a table than emotional reaction. The so-called old mean bashers will just calmy state choices for the bwr, regain control of the signing and continue -- just like they continue to tell new notaries to do their homework, get prepared and stop crying.
However, if you *can* get a grip on your emotions *here* so much the better so that you can calmly say, "No can do." Otherwise, you are easily manipulated by both hiring entity and bwr. Practice covering up your buttons here, and you'll be amazed at how much more confidence and control you'll have in the field.
Those who continue to coddle you by saying "so sorry for these mean rude people...it's okay if you are ill-prepared for this job and have the emotions of a 3 yr old." are enablers. They want you to remain immature because they have their own little personal drama going on. They enjoy the role they play and even try to heighten it at times. Don't buy into all this stinking thinking--you are not a helpless victim.
Recommended reading: Nasty People Toxic People
Reply by BrendaTX on 6/17/05 5:13am Msg #45449
Beginner's FAQs (Compliments of AngelinaAZ)
Posted by Anonymous formerly known as AngelinaAZ, I think - on 6/17/05 1:55am Msg #45440 from logged in user
Hello from all of us at Notary Rotary!
This site can be a great resource for you on your journey to becoming a great signing agent. Building your own business can be a tough thing and nobody can hold your hand and do it for you. Please know that this is a competitive business, and the harder you work for yourself, the more successful you will be.
We do have some great advice for you to get you started.
Tip 1) The orange search button can be a great tool. Use it to look up a question before you post it on the board and chances are… you may find that the answer to your question is right in front of you. Although you are new and excited… and we are excited for you, your first ten questions have probably been asked and answered about a thousand times.
Tip 2) Study hard and stay positive. You have to be thick skinned in this business and sometimes, the best information can come from a cranky attorney who just might bite your head off! Learn from everybody!
Here are some answers to frequently asked questions from the board:
1. How do I get started as a Signing Agent? Read message #33325 by Dorothy/MI
2. How much should I charge? You will have to figure out your own fees based on your area and your expenses. That being said, most of us universally agree that the baseline price for a Single package should be NO LESS than $65-75 for a package delivered to your home plus an additional $25 if it is E-Doc. This is considered an acceptable fee from a Signing Service for a round-trip of 40 miles. (That means 20 miles one way). Many have argued this point and you can find differing points of view by doing a search on ‘fees’.
3. How long should a signing take? Read message #7453 by CaliNotary.
4. What should I carry in my briefcase? Read message #19302 by Lee/AR
5. How can I market myself to Title Co.’s? Read message #42637 by BrendaTX
There are many more answers out there to lots of questions, …printing problems… opinions on good or bad signing services…specific document Q&A…, if you have the desire to excel, we recommend lots and lots of searching… studying…and hard work. Remember, it is all up to you! GOOD LUCK!
So now that you are on your way, take a minute to tell us what state you are in and your favorite thing to do for fun!
Reply by BrendaTX on 7/12/05 2:56pm Msg #51342
Making the Confirmation Call...by Iris-WA
Posted by IrisWA on 7/12/05 2:20pm Msg #51330 from logged in user
Ditto what Ernest said. In my initial contact with the Borrowers, I usually tell them a few basic things after I introduce myself and give them my phone number. Specifically, I tell them I am a notary public and that my function is merely to show them what/where to sign/initial and to notarize the required documents. I emphasize in that contact that I am not an attorney and will not be able to answer loan-specific questions, though if they have basic questions that are generic in nature (e.g., what is this document), I may be able to help.
If the docs go directly to them -- which is not always made clear to me upon acceptance of an appointment, I tell them to read the docs before I get there, make a list of their questions and call their LO or TC for answers.
Then I tell them I will need 2 current photo IDs -- I usually ask "Will these be available?" -- and I request them to make a photocopy for me to put into the loan package.
I also ask them to have on hand their insurance information, because my experience has shown me this is frequently asked for in the instructions.
For what it's worth -- you may want to check with your contractor to see if the TC/Lender will accept FAXed copies of drivers' licenses -- this covers you in the event no photocopy(ies) is available when you get to the signing.
Congratulations on your first two signings! May many more follow!
Reply by BrendaTX on 7/12/05 2:58pm Msg #51343
What Ernest CT says about the Confirmation Call
Yes, asking for copies of ID is common. Posted by Ernest_CT on 7/12/05 1:18pm Msg #51301 from 68.60.218.60
Your confirmation / instructions should (notice "should") have that detail on it. There are times, however, when it isn't on the confirmation but is in the instruction for the notary that come in the docs themselves. Always, always tell the borrower that a copy of their ID is needing during your initial contact with them. If you call them again, remind them.
Some NSAs carry a digital camera so that they can take a photo if the borrower does not have a copy.
Reply by BrendaTX on 7/21/05 8:10am Msg #53535
Why people are reluctant to post TC info from Nd_WA
Adding to #33325 - thanks Nd.
Re: Why people are reluctant to post TC info on this board Posted by Nd_WA on 7/21/05 3:24am Msg #53518 from logged in user
Not only are TCs unforgiving, but even a good paying SS won't hesitate paying the lowest fee possible to your competitor. You betcha it is getting to be a cut throat business. I learned it the hard way when I thought I could give something back to the community by sharing my best/favorite companies to work with. A month or two went by, I realized I had lost 2 bread and butter (~$1K each/mo) companies to cheap SA in the area about a month after I shared them.
I believe good things do happen to good people because a big lender no longer uses one of the two TCs I mentioned above. I'm now working exclusive again for this lender's signing through a different TC.
It really irritates me when I see offensive word by those who couldn't get what they want from the board. My advice those is treat this board as a library. A librarian will show/get you a book but never will s/he read the book to you.
Reply by tfarmertx on 7/23/05 8:02pm Msg #54190
Re: Why people are reluctant to post TC info from Nd_WA
Brenda stated : Not only are TCs unforgiving, but even a good paying SS won't hesitate paying the lowest fee possible to your competitor. (sharing my best/favorite companies to work with) I believe good things do happen to good people because a big lender no longer uses one of the two TCs I mentioned above. I'm now working exclusive again for this lender's signing through a different TC. It really irritates me when I see offensive word by those who couldn't get what they want from the board. My advice those is treat this board as a library. A librarian will show/get you a book but never will s/he read the book to you. Amen brenda.... been there, done that. lesson learned. T.
Reply by BrendaTX on 7/21/05 9:07pm Msg #53764
Acronyms regarding loans by Brian/CA
Acronyms regarding loans Posted by Brian/CA on 7/21/05 5:12pm Msg #53716 from 71.105.62.50
A list of Acronyms regarding loans. Anyone else have any others?
ACK Acknowledgment AFF Affidavit AIF Attorney In Fact AKA Also Known As APR Annual Percentage Rate AR Arbitration Rider ARM Adjustable Rate Mortgage ARN Adjustable Rate Note BK Bankruptcy CAP Maximum Interest Rate CCR’s Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions CLTV Combined Loan to Value COFI Cost Of Funds Index CRV Certificate Of Reasonable Value CSA Certified Signing Agent CW Credible Witness DBA Doing Business As DD214 Certificate of Veteran Status DOB Date Of Birth DOT Deed of Trust DRE Department of Real Estate E and O Error and Omissions E-DOCS Electronic Documents ECOA Equal Credit Opportunity Act Fannie Mae Federal National Mortgage Association – FNMA FCRA Fair Credit Reporting Act FED Federal Reserve System FHA Federal Housing Authority FHLMC Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation - Freddie Mac FKA Formerly Known As FmHA Farmers Home Administration FNMA Federal National Mortgage Association – Fannie Mae Freddie Mac Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation - FHLMC GD Grant Deed GEM Growing Equity Mortgage GFE Good Faith Estimate Ginie Mae Government National Mortgage Association - GNMA GNMA Government National Mortgage Association - Ginnie Mae GPM Graduated Payment Mortgage HECM Home Equity Conversion Mortgage HELOC Home Equity Line Of Credit HOA Home Owner’s Association HOEPA Home Ownership and Equity Protection Act of 1994 HUD Housing Urban Department HUD-1 HUD Settlement Statement JUR Jurat LIBOR London Interbank Offering Rate LO Loan Officer LOE Letter of Explanation l..s.. Locus Sigilli - means place stamp here LTD POA Limited Power Of Attorney LTV Loan To Value Ratio MBAA Mortgage Bankers Association of America MBS Mortgage Backed Security MI Mortgage Insurance MIP Mortgage Insurance Premium MTG Mortgage NKA Now Known As NNA National Notary Association NOD Notice Of Default NOO Non-Occupant Owner NSA Notary Signing Agent NRCC Nonrecurring Closing Costs OO Owner Occupied P&T Principal and Interest (Mortgage Payment) PAM Pledge Account Mortgage PERS Public Emplyees’ Retirement System PITI Principal, Interest, Taxes and Insurance PMI Private Mortgage Insurance POA Power of Attorney POC Paid Out of Closing PTD Prior To Docs PTF Prior To Funding PTS Points (Loan Origination Fee) PUD Planned Unit Development OTS Office of Thrift supervision QD Quit Claim Deed QCD Quit Claim Deed RAM Reverse Annuity Mortgage REO Real Estate Owned RESPA Real Estate Settlement Procedures Act RHS Rural Housing Service RTC Right To Cancel SAM Shared Appreciation Mortgage SBA Small Business Administration SFR Single Family Residence SS Signing Service s.s. scilicet refers to Venue TC Title Company TIL Truth In Lending TILA Truth In Lending Act TO Title Officer TRW Credit Reporting Repository TTEE Trustee TU Credit Reporting Repository VA Veteran Affairs VOD Verification Of Deposit VOE Verification Of Employment VOM Verification Of Mortgage VRM Variable Rate Mortgage WD Warranty Deed W2’s Year End Earnings Statement W-9 Request for Taxpayer Identification Number and Certification YSP Yield Spread Premium YTD Year To Date 1003 Uniform Residential Loan Application 1031 IRS Code 1031 Exchange of real estate 4506 Request for copy or Transcript of Tax Form 4506T Request for Copy of Transcript of Tax Form 8821 Tax Information Authorization
Reply by linda/ca on 7/23/05 9:51pm Msg #54199
Re: Acronyms regarding loans by Brian/CA
On tour list of Acronyms: P&T should be P&I; correct? for Principal and Interest?
Reply by linda/ca on 7/24/05 3:19am Msg #54219
Re: Acronyms regarding loans by Brian/CA
Whoops! That should be your list.
Reply by BrendaTX on 7/24/05 12:48pm Msg #54256
End of Month - Bonnie/FL Explains
Re: The day before EOM seems to becoming EOM Posted by Bonnie/FL on 7/24/05 9:47am Msg #54230 from 65.35.64.246
Everyone wants to close the end of the month, look at the HUD and see the interest the borrower pays (from the date of closing until the end of month). The borrower looks at it that they are saving money by paying only a couple days interest instead of closing at the beginning or middle of the month. It's been that way since the beginning of time, the last week of every month for realtors, closers, lenders, title companies, lawyers who do real estate, etc. are the busiest for them all including us, the notaries. Also, some loan officers are pushing for "quotas" (used to be in this businesss too) so the more you can close by the end of the month, the better you looked to your employer. It happens to all of us the end of the month. Part of the business.
Reply by Brenda Stone on 7/26/05 4:13am Msg #54671
Accepting an Assignment / Quoting Fee / EOM (+ to #33325)
ASK like THIS... Posted by TCMN on 7/25/05 10:05pm Msg #54609 from logged in user
SS: "Hello CA, I'm wondering if you're available to do a closing tonight at 6pm?"
CA: "Where's it at?"
SS: "Lil-ole-town"
CA: "Is this a refi or heloc?"
SS: "Refi."
CA: "Who's the lender?, is it Ameriquest?"
SS: "no"
CA: "I'm available, what are you authorized to pay?"
SS: "$75, we only get $100"
CA: "I'm sorry, I won't do a refi, where I print docs and drive 45mins one way for that."
SS: "well, what would your fee be?"
CA: "$150, plus $25 for the printing and having a customer copy."
SS: "Would you take $110?"
CA: "No, I'm sorry. That would be my fee and since I'm the closest signing agent to that area and am available, see if you can find anyone else for less and when you don't find anyone for less, then when you get my fee approved give me a call back. I book up pretty fast though so, please don't wait too long, I'd like to help you out with this one."
I guarantee you, if your fees are not exessive, they call back. I generally get at least 70% calling me back. The thing you have to watch is taking control of the questioning, and staying firm when you answer. Make sure you have the knowledge of who your competition is and where they are traveling to. I know my area and have networked with the notaries in the area and we've banded together to have the same fees. And when some "snake" of a SS (and we all know who are the one's that low-ball) calls and we quote our fee and they don't bite, we call each other and tell each other what we quoted and then start going higher. That way one of us will get it and it'll be whomever they get in touch with the last time. We keep our fees up where they should be that way.
So, for all the people who don't want to network or think someone will take all your business...think out of the box and band together to bring the fees up. The companies HAVE TO get loans closed and should EVERYONE possible quote the same fees...they WILL pay it.
jmo
Reply by BrendaTX on 7/26/05 5:05am Msg #54673
Small claims court for #33325 by Nicole & by Melody
Re: Tips for small claims court suits Posted by Nicole_NCali on 7/19/05 11:56am Msg #53119 from logged in user
I agree with all of the above except in California Small Claims, you either can have a Pro tem hear your case or a judge. Most of the time it is a pro tem (lawyer who sits in for the Judge or commissioner) A demand for payment must have been sent, it is good to always send a certified letter to the last known address, (this came directly from a court commissioner who was giving us general directions on winning our cases)
We posed to him the fax transmittals and he stated "who's to say that the fax number was accurate, I trust certified mail (US post office) more so than fax transmittals. Also, he stated that small claims is set-up specifically for the small issues, so apologizing to the pro tem or judge about your case is irrelevant, what most of the pro tems or judges want is as Melody stated, mediation on the case and advising the judge that this is what you want to do or if the case is heard, requesting a stipulated judgment if the party at hand is having financial difficulty in paying you. This makes you look like a reasonable person.
Where I work for, we win about 95% of our cases. The preparation of your exhibits is important, so keep those confirmations and your correspondence at hand. Telephone calls are good, but can you show or present a telephone call. Your demand letters or collection letters are your best source of evidence.
I have taken several people to small claims court. I always win. Part of the reason: I managed law firms for 20+ years.
1. Document the heck out of your experience. Your invoice. Fax transmission reports. Their confirmation sheet. Their website statements. Everything. Don't forget to send a Late Fee statement that includes $x per week for late fees for late payments. Include the fax transmission reports for these Sends. (Don't quote a % for late fees. You will get in trouble with %s.)
2. Recite a higher-than-you-want payoff amount for resolution of the case. This gives you room to negotiate down. Include late fees.
3 Put your sheets into a 3-ring binder with tabs. Make it VERY easy for the judge to flip through. Add your own website pages with payment policy stipulations.
4. If you are given the option to mediate instead of going before the judge, take it. If the other party refuses, that makes you look good. If they go to mediation, you can negotiate your payoff.
5. Dress like you are attending a funeral and sitting next to your VERY conservative grandmother. Wear a suit. Women: wear a lace scarf and white blouse. A cameo pin is a good touch. Wear a skirt and stockings. (My sympathy - I hate 'em.) Men: wear a suit and tie. Both: wear gray or navy for the jacket/shirt/pants parts. I once won a case because I showed up in church clothes and my opponent appeared in Hawaiian garb and white shoes. Our financial numbers were close - his clothes and disrespect won me the case
=======================================
Tips for small claims court suits Posted by Melody on 7/19/05 1:08am Msg #53049 from 24.22.178.241
I have taken several people to small claims court. I always win. Part of the reason: I managed law firms for 20+ years.
1. Document the heck out of your experience. Your invoice. Fax transmission reports. Their confirmation sheet. Their website statements. Everything. Don't forget to send a Late Fee statement that includes $x per week for late fees for late payments. Include the fax transmission reports for these Sends. (Don't quote a % for late fees. You will get in trouble with %s.)
2. Recite a higher-than-you-want payoff amount for resolution of the case. This gives you room to negotiate down. Include late fees.
3 Put your sheets into a 3-ring binder with tabs. Make it VERY easy for the judge to flip through. Add your own website pages with payment policy stipulations.
4. If you are given the option to mediate instead of going before the judge, take it. If the other party refuses, that makes you look good. If they go to mediation, you can negotiate your payoff.
5. Dress like you are attending a funeral and sitting next to your VERY conservative grandmother. Wear a suit. Women: wear a lace scarf and white blouse. A cameo pin is a good touch. Wear a skirt and stockings. (My sympathy - I hate 'em.) Men: wear a suit and tie. Both: wear gray or navy for the jacket/shirt/pants parts. I once won a case because I showed up in church clothes and my opponent appeared in Hawaiian garb and white shoes. Our financial numbers were close - his clothes and disrespect won me the case.
6. Be extremely deferential to the judge. Use these phrases: "Your Honor" "Yes Sir" "Yes Ma'am." Apologize to the judge for taking his time on such a small matter. You just felt you had no where else to turn. Do NOT be angry. Be sweet. Be a supplicant.
The court judge could be in a bad mood and order you to jail for contempt for the slightest and tiniest of reasons. Do not underestimate the judge - he could be the father of a pregant teen and in a VERY bad mood. Be very good and very careful.
Good luck!
Reply by TCMN on 7/26/05 5:19pm Msg #54865
Quoting your fee to SS's...ASK like THIS
SS: "Hello CA, I'm wondering if you're available to do a closing tonight at 6pm?"
CA: "Where's it at?"
SS: "Lil-ole-town"
CA: "Is this a refi or heloc?"
SS: "Refi."
CA: "Who's the lender?, is it Ameriquest?"
SS: "no"
CA: "I'm available, what are you authorized to pay?"
SS: "$75, we only get $100"
CA: "I'm sorry, I won't do a refi, where I print docs and drive 45mins one way for that."
SS: "well, what would your fee be?"
CA: "$150, plus $25 for the printing and having a customer copy."
SS: "Would you take $110?"
CA: "No, I'm sorry. That would be my fee and since I'm the closest signing agent to that area and am available, see if you can find anyone else for less and when you don't find anyone for less, then when you get my fee approved give me a call back. I book up pretty fast though so, please don't wait too long, I'd like to help you out with this one."
I guarantee you, if your fees are not exessive, they call back. I generally get at least 70% calling me back. The thing you have to watch is taking control of the questioning, and staying firm when you answer. Make sure you have the knowledge of who your competition is and where they are traveling to. I know my area and have networked with the notaries in the area and we've banded together to have the same fees. And when some "snake" of a SS (and we all know who are the one's that low-ball) calls and we quote our fee and they don't bite, we call each other and tell each other what we quoted and then start going higher. That way one of us will get it and it'll be whomever they get in touch with the last time. We keep our fees up where they should be that way.
So, for all the people who don't want to network or think someone will take all your business...think out of the box and band together to bring the fees up. The companies HAVE TO get loans closed and should EVERYONE possible quote the same fees...they WILL pay it.
Reply by BrendaTX on 9/19/05 1:07pm Msg #66020
Birth, Labor & Delivery of a mortgage loan - by Renee Kovacs
Re: Internet loans vs. local Posted by Renee Kovacs on 9/19/05 4:28am Msg #65985 from logged in user
Birth, Labor & Delivery of a mortgage loan:
1. Borrower (B) either calls local mtg lender, responds to radio/tv ad (may be non-local) or applies on-line (local or non-local).
2. (B) info is held against a matrix of data (credit score, amount of loan-to-value of prop, empl. stability, property value, income, amount of current debt, etc) and a product is chosen from those (B) qualifies for. (One reason product at the table may not be what (B) originally wanted - may not have qualified and this wasn't communicated.)
3. Title commitment is pulled - lenders have relationships with title agencies, usually use whomever their relationship is with, this will usually be the Settlement Agent (which is the entity that receives and disburses the loan funds.) This is also usually where the signing appt originates - whether directly, or through SS.
** Smaller agencies don't outsource many of their signings because their (B)'s tend to be local, as their lender relationships tend to be local. To outsource might cut into a profit margin that can't take the cut. On the flip side are larger companies w/ own title AND signing agencies (First American Title /FASS, for example)
** Lenders not local to (B) use title co they have relationship with, and odds are T/C isn't local to (B), either. SS and NSA industries 'bread & butter'. These are usually internet, radio or tv ad generated.
** Local lender who can not qualify (B) on one of their own products (or who has no product of their own and brokers all loans) will "broker" the loan to a sub-prime lender, who is generally not very local. Loan closing will remain with T/C of originating lender's choice - so may STILL be local to (B).
4. Lender has loan underwriten and approved to close, sends to closing dept for docs to be drafted. U/W may not be able to approve as submitted, makes counter-offer (different product, different rate, etc.) Loan Officer (L/O) doesn't always communicate to (B) these changes - (B) learns at the table.
** These changes (from fixed to arm, from this rate to that rate, etc) DO NOT USUALLY INDICATE ANYTHING BUT A LACK OF COMMUNICATION. I note this because of how often I see postings accusing others of being "fraudulent" or "unscrupulous"/
5. Pkg is sent to Settlement Agent to be closed/executed. Final HUD is compiled and usually produced by Settlement Agent (some Lenders do their own though).
6. Means of closing is determined at this point - farmed to SS or NSA, (B) brought into office, etc.
7. Loan docs executed and returned to Settlement Agent, who disburses loan funds (at correct point) and sends recordable docs to county for recording. Makes cert. copies of those, returns pkg to lender.
8.) Lender performs audit of docs, authorizes release of funds. From this point - loan may be prepped for immed. sale, may be scanned and held for sale, may be 'in-house' loan and serviced by same.
That's the basic life of a loan.
Reply by Iris Grayson on 9/19/05 4:11pm Msg #66054
Clues to spotting a Signing Services to void by Charles_CA
Some basic principles I use to grow and nurture Posted by Charles_CA on 9/19/05 1:11pm Msg #66022 from logged in user
Greetings:
There are a lot of comments about the difficulty of dealing with some companies. I have set up table of characteristics I use in determining whether I work for a company or not and while these are just mine they have worked for me in the NSA business.
1. If a compnay calls with a lowball fee and then has to check with someone else to get approval it usually spells trouble.
2. When a company sends you the confirmation and the confirmation has characteristics that can change the payment materially, I usually reject the signing as they changed the contract unilaterally and even if I don't agree directly if I do the job I ratify the contract. These companies usally get the sack immediately upon receipt of the confirmation. Statements like "if all the documents are not signed correctly the fee will be reduced" is totally un acceptable to me.
3. When the company needs to tell me how to dress, when to contact the borrower and to call when I arrive at the borrower's home to make sure I got there, I know I am dealing with a bottom dweller and that thy only hire new notaries they can screw out of fees. I don't know any of the notaries on this site that I regularly chat with who would not knwo how to dress or that they needed to confrm an appoint ment with a borower.
4. When I have a long list of fax-backs that the company needs to see before I drop the docs in the drop box, I know I have problems. Numerous faxbacks to the SS is a sure indication of another bottom dweller who exists to suck the life out of newbies. I have requests occaisionlly for a fax back to the escrow or title company and that is so that they can get a jump start on the processing and I see that as an accommodation to the TC or escrow: those are infrequent and are usually asked for with an explanation. The SSs who need the multiple fax backs usually need them because they use notaries in whom they have no confidence.
5. Contracts to sign before doing a job. I have yet to see a contract inthis business that is not carefully stacked against the notary. I don't like to sign contracts. The promise of work is a ruse. While the notary is supposed to confroma to the contract and not compete there is usually nothing in the contract promising work. The contracts are set up to only benefit the SS.
I have used these prinicples to initially screen the companies that call me. It is usully funny to see the tactics these companies use to intimidate and badger notaries into signing contracts or doing jobs they don't want to do. I recently exchanged words with a SS who wanted so badly to intimidate and badger me into doing what he wanted that he finally ran out of patience and threatened to ruin my business by naming me as a PITA notary on the super-secret website maintained only for the SSs. He just had to get the last word in, it was really funny it was like his manhood was in question when there really was no question. I maintained my civility and that just seems to really get some people mad. It's not personal its business, and that is one of my most obdurate principles. I am not in this business to make anyone happy, I provide a service, and I expect a fair return for provideing that service. Tha is all nothing more.
Those are the basic princples I use indetermining who I will work for intially. If you don't pay me as agreed don't expect me to work for you again. If you change the terms of the agreement or if you try to play stupid games of who's got the power, don't bother me I don't like to work for companise like that. I have some excellent relationships and I get the job done. I expect to be treated like the professional I am and I return the respect and professionalism. If this helps someone great if not it's really worth just exactly what you paid for it.
Best regards, Charles
Reply by BrendaTX on 10/7/05 1:47pm Msg #69374
Pricing and Fees by NorCalDar on 10/7/05
Re: "I don't walk out my door for less than 100.00." Posted by NorCalDar on 10/7/05 1:24pm Msg #69365 from logged in user
When pricing your fees, do you take into consideration the average number of notarizations you perform, the average mileage you have to travel, a printing fee, your time with the borrower, and a reasonable profit margin? Taking the profit margin out of the equation, it is rather easy to rack up a “reasonable charge of about $100.00. Here is an example,
Say you have travel 10 miles (one way) for a closing. If you only charge $0.50 per mile, that’s $8.00. The signing is for a standard refinance and there are 100 pages that need to be printed for the title company and 100 for the borrower. This includes escrow, HUD, 1003, borrowers personal info and the main doc package. 200 pages time $0.06 per page = $12.00. Lets assume you are good at multitasking and can do other things while the docs are printing and you are not comfortable charging for the time you are printing. Let’s assume that you take only 10 minutes to review the printed documents to assure that you have everything you need for the closing. If your time is only worth $10.00 per hour, add another $1.66 for you time to review the document package. You get to the closing and spend 45 minutes getting everything signed except for the documents that require notarization. Add another $7.50 for your time. Now you notarize 5 documents (one borrower). The State of CA allows no more than $10.00 per notarization. Add another $50.00. You take another 5 minutes to review the documents before you leave the borrowers home. Add $0.83. Then you get back to you office and fax the docs that the SS requests you to fax before sending the docs out. Assume that the fax back number is toll free. Add another $0.83 for the five minutes to fax the docs. Assume you have to pick the kids up from school and there is a FedEx box across the street from the school and you are not comfortable charging for a trip you were going to make anyway. Total it up:
20 miles * .50 per mile = 8.00 200 pages * $0.06 per page = 12.00 10 minutes review time before the closing = $1.66 45 minutes to show the borrower where to sign his name = $7.50 5 notarizations = $50.00 5 minutes post closing review of documents = $0.83 5 minutes to fax back documents = $0.83
Total = $80.82. Remember this is before profit and considers that your time is only worth $10.00 per hour. It also assume you are very generous with your fees and only travel an average of 10 miles one way. Also remember that the phone you took the order on costs you money. You have not considered any “issues” with document procurement, time trying to track down the borrower, self-employment taxes, State and federal income tax, and general overhead. If you think those who charge no less than $100.00 are being “unreasonable” I have two questions for you. 1) Do you have a business sound plan? 2) Are you interested in your business being reasonably successful?
Reply by Nathan Ellsworth on 10/19/05 11:19pm Msg #71339
Re: Pricing and Fees by NorCalDar on 10/7/05
I am not so sure this is a true representation of the actual costs and profit of this hypothetical closing. I agree with some of this posts cost, I am skeptical about the vehicle expense but it's not worth debating. I don't think it costs $50 to do five notarizations. That may be what you are allowed to charge, but the actual cost is probably more like 1 cent. Therefore each notarization has a profit of $9.99. In addition I would remove the charges for time spent of $1.66, $7.50, $0.83 and $0.83.
So taking the cost of driving ($10) and the cost of printing ($12) you have a total of $22 dollars in cost. Let's say all tasks take you 2 hours (which I believe is longer than the original poster allocated) you have $78/2 = $39 per hour. Of course some of that will be allocated to fixed costs such as cell phone, internet, printer, and computer it's not a bad wage. Bottom line I would do this closing for $100 everyday. However, if I could get more I would.
Reply by ALL SONOMA MOBILE NOTARY - Judith Neeley on 2/19/08 9:13pm Msg #236119
I disagree - the $10 @ is justified
You are forgetting you are paying for your liability insurance, office supplies, marketing, etc., and so the $10 per signature allowed in CA is more than justified. Plus, the whole reason for being in business is to make a profit, not to just cover your expenses! My time is worth a whole lot more than $10 an hour, too. I get $25 an hour just for basic bookkeeping services. My travel time is worth something to me, too. It's not just the cost of gas/auto insurance, maintenance, registration - so .50 per mile is barely covering cost without my time involved.
Reply by BrendaTx on 11/14/05 3:56pm Msg #76436
Required Reading - NSA 101-Orientation by Roger OH
Tina MA and I agree that this is a very helpful post to read as NSA orientation. Thanks Roger!
--------------------------------- The other side of the coin... Posted by Roger_OH on 11/13/05 2:25pm Msg #76283 from logged in user
This is a professional board for notaries. When you have the designation of "Notary Public" after your name, there goes with that the inherent responsibility of knowing the laws of your state.
Unfortunately, many come here who were swept up by the NNA recruiting fervor of "part-time effort, full-time income", and all that they know about being a notary is that you have to be one to do loan signings and begin making money. So they jump through that necessary hoop without any real idea of the large responsibilities that go with the title. They come here often exhibiting some sense of entitlement because they had an NNA course - "Now that I have my stamp, where's all the work?" and Please give me a list of companies" are common refrains. These folks often have no sense of the history (notaries go back over two thousand years!), sanctity, or integrity associated with what is a PUBLIC office of TRUST.
When someone comes to the board asking the most basic of questions, they can expect criticism for a) not knowing the basics that their title says they should know, or b) not utilizing the many resources available to find out. One of the reasons for this is that it exhibits a lack of professionalism as well as a degree of incompetence. Rather than feeling insulted or "flamed", consider the advice from others about doing your own research and giving the respect that the office of Notary Public deserves. If we do not police ourselves by demanding a higher standard of excellence, then sooner or later someone else will police us, and perhaps even more states will go attorney-only.
The bottom line is that one is a NOTARY first and a signing agent a distant second. Those that would criticize are only trying to raise the bar that was lowered when NNA began pumping out more and more notaries (and creating their own members) lured by the carrot of easy money. The veterans here are trying to HELP you be a better Notary/SA by hoping you LEARN from their comments, and maybe PREVENT you from making a mistake that could jeopardize someone's home loan.
No one here will hesitate to help with a legitimate question, whether posed publicly or privately. We were all new once, and a lot of bizarre/interesting situations do occur. But if one comes on here not knowing the difference between an ack and a jurat, or what to put for a venue on the county line of the notary certificate, then expect to learn a lesson from those you would be a peer with, and yes, grow a thicker skin.
Please take my comments in the spirit in which they're intended; you expect the mechanic who works on your brakes to be professional and competent, and they are not turned loose upon customers until they do; the public, lenders/TC/SS and your fellow notaries expect a similar standard from you. When posters show they haven't the basics, but still want to cash in, it is frustrating, and cheapens the title they would share with us.
Reply by BrendaTx on 5/17/06 5:24pm Msg #120567
Required Reading - NSA 101 - UPDATE to #33325- by Roger OH
For newer folks who think they've been treated rudely... Posted by Roger_OH of OH on 5/17/06 2:20pm Msg #120513 from logged in user
I think it's time to repost this little missive about some realities of our business, particularly in view of the post just below where a "notary" didn't know who was swearing before him. These kinds of basic knowledge posts are all too frequent, and usually meet with a virtual broiling on the boards. Rather than be miffed at the "lack of help from the know-it-alls", please read and perhaps better understand...
It started when NNA bought out the old NASA several years back, and began seducing people into their seminars with ads saying you can make "up to $125 an hour!". Ever since, they have been continuously pumping out notaries with dollar signs in their eyes into an already saturated system, and continue to be in the unique position to be able to manufacture their own members from people who couldn't tell a notary public from a tree stump, but are drawn by the lure of "full-time income, part-time effort", and "You just have to watch people sign their names??" (an actual post).
The veteran posters of NotRot do become impatient when so many new folks come to the boards exhibiting some sense of entitlement because they completed an NNA course - "I just got my stamp, where's all the work??" is a common refrain. These people often have no sense of the history (notaries go back over two thousand years!), sanctity, integrity, or SERIOUS responsibility associated with the office of Notary Public. They only know that you have to be a notary in order to to loan signings, so they jump thru that necessary hoop without any idea of what goes with it. Many trumpet the fact they are "certified" before they have ever set a pen to their first signing, then come to the boards asking basic knowledge questions as we've seen many times, most recently in the post just below.
You must be a Notary FIRST and a signing agent a distant second. STUDY the rules of your state, read the boards, and take a training course before you take on the rather large responsibility of someone's home loan into your hands. If you screw it up, you can be SUED!
Understand, we don't just sit around waiting eagerly to bash new people. We were all new once, have seen our share of weird docs and unusual situations, and do not hesitate to help with a legitimate question; we have done so numerous times. However, we've also earned the right to expect some semblance of professionalism from others that would share our title; don't just explode onto the boards asking questions that someone with the title of Notary Public after their name should be reasonably expected to know. If you don't know the difference between an ack and a jurat, or which name goes in the "sworn before me by.." blank, then you have not earned the the title of Notary Public, and you certainly should not be conducting loan signings until you do. Your ignorance can cause immense damage to the public you've sworn to serve. Not all notaries are signing agents, but all signing agents are notaries.
If you think you are being treated rudely here, it will pale in comparison to how you will be treated by companies and their borrowers after you have butchered someone's $300,00 loan docs and caused them to lose their rate lock. What you may perceive as rudeness from us is in reality something that may prevent you from making a colossal mistake in the future. Take the responsibilty of learning all you can about the laws, and exactly what it means to be an officer of your state. Don't view this as just a hobby for extra pin money, it's a serious business, and should be treated as such. You have to have the proper equipment, licenses/state registrations, etc to operate legally and professionally.
You expect the mechanic who works on your brakes to know what he/she is doing, and they are not turned loose upon customers until they do. The public, lenders, and SS expect a similar standard of professionalism from us as notaries public, and it's YOUR responsibility to meet that standard. It's not rudeness, it's an attempt at re-educating you before you do some real damage by not knowing something your title says you should. Failure to do so will only lead to the continued lowering of the notary bar, and it will be just a matter of time before incompetent notaries lead to the establishment of more attorney-only states.
Reply by BrendaTx on 1/27/06 12:21pm Msg #91797
Adding #76283 to the thread of Message #33325
The other side of the coin... Posted by Roger_OH on 11/13/05 2:25pm Msg #76283 from logged in user
This is a professional board for notaries. When you have the designation of "Notary Public" after your name, there goes with that the inherent responsibility of knowing the laws of your state.
Unfortunately, many come here who were swept up by the NNA recruiting fervor of "part-time effort, full-time income", and all that they know about being a notary is that you have to be one to do loan signings and begin making money. So they jump through that necessary hoop without any real idea of the large responsibilities that go with the title. They come here often exhibiting some sense of entitlement because they had an NNA course - "Now that I have my stamp, where's all the work?" and Please give me a list of companies" are common refrains. These folks often have no sense of the history (notaries go back over two thousand years!), sanctity, or integrity associated with what is a PUBLIC office of TRUST.
When someone comes to the board asking the most basic of questions, they can expect criticism for a) not knowing the basics that their title says they should know, or b) not utilizing the many resources available to find out. One of the reasons for this is that it exhibits a lack of professionalism as well as a degree of incompetence. Rather than feeling insulted or "flamed", consider the advice from others about doing your own research and giving the respect that the office of Notary Public deserves. If we do not police ourselves by demanding a higher standard of excellence, then sooner or later someone else will police us, and perhaps even more states will go attorney-only.
The bottom line is that one is a NOTARY first and a signing agent a distant second. Those that would criticize are only trying to raise the bar that was lowered when NNA began pumping out more and more notaries (and creating their own members) lured by the carrot of easy money. The veterans here are trying to HELP you be a better Notary/SA by hoping you LEARN from their comments, and maybe PREVENT you from making a mistake that could jeopardize someone's home loan.
No one here will hesitate to help with a legitimate question, whether posed publicly or privately. We were all new once, and a lot of bizarre/interesting situations do occur. But if one comes on here not knowing the difference between an ack and a jurat, or what to put for a venue on the county line of the notary certificate, then expect to learn a lesson from those you would be a peer with, and yes, grow a thicker skin.
Please take my comments in the spirit in which they're intended; you expect the mechanic who works on your brakes to be professional and competent, and they are not turned loose upon customers until they do; the public, lenders/TC/SS and your fellow notaries expect a similar standard from you. When posters show they haven't the basics, but still want to cash in, it is frustrating, and cheapens the title they would share with us.
Reply by BrendaTx on 2/3/06 10:21am Msg #93745
Jersey Boy's 2 cents... Adding to #33325
Jersey Boy's 2 cents... Posted by Jersey_Boy on 2/3/06 9:07am Msg #93723 from logged in user
When I first started reading notary rotary a few months ago, I too felt that there was a lot of bashing going on.
BUT----------> Now after reading every post that hits this board over the last few months, I've realized why (and I agree with why) there may be some "rude" comments thrown around now and then.
1. EVERY NEWBIE comes on this board and asks the same question (maybe even a good question) that some other newbie posted two days before that, and two days before that, ad infinitum (sp). I too am getting tired of reading this stuff, so if a "veteran" gives the newbie a quick shot answer (rude or not). I would tend to think that most of the other veterans find this amusing. I admit it, I find it amusing.
2. IF EVERY NEWBIE would realize that there is a FREAKIN search button, it would save a lot of time and "newbie bashing." I am very confident that there is an answer already posted to every notary related question that could be asked.
3. If a newbie has a question, think before you ask the question. Don't ask "how should I advertise," because that is the type of question that is just asking for a bashing. Ask a SPECIFIC question, i.e. "Is it better to advertise via email or direct mail." This type of question you will get a better and more professional answer/opinion.
4. Everyone here was at one time a newbie. I for one did not know of message boards, or mentoring, or NNA or books or anything of the like. I got my commission, I read the laws, I read the laws, I read the laws, I read the laws, I read the laws (noticing a pattern?), I memorized the laws. I figured things out. I learned from MY mistakes. Then I got lucky and found an awesome website that I could discuss things with my fellow notary. Now, I can ask a notary question, post about why I hate UPS, or throw out a silly SURVERY every now and then. I have to be prepared to get my own @SS reamed out every now and then... I'm a big Jersey_Boy, I can take it.
5. ANY FINALLY TO ALL NEWBIES: If you can't understand or agree with #'s 1-4, then don't go away Mad....... JUST GO AWAY!
Reply by Brenda Stone on 2/5/06 3:50pm Msg #94550
Posted by BrendaTx on 2/5/06 3:44pm Msg #94548 from logged in user ===================
Pub. 17 at the IRS.gov site has many answers about taxes.
===================
When notaries email or call me for help on their taxes, I send them to IRS.gov. I agree with answers in this thread, but why depend on another notary to provide answers. Go to the source....
All questions in the entire universe about your INCOME TAXES are duly answered there or you can find direction at http://www.irs.gov - that is the office IRS website. It is a good one to book mark this time of year.
When you get there - Look...they have a search feature...I just put in "notary" http://search.irs.gov/web/query.html?col=allirs&charset=utf-8&qp=&qs=-Wct%3A%22Internal+Revenue+Manual%22&qc=&qm=0&rf=0&oq=&qt=notary
Many hits came up and I read them. Interesting reading...I searched again on NOTARY INCOME. This link came up in the list...
CLICK ON THE ABOVE LINK AND YOU WILL FIND OFFICIAL ANSWERS, in the section with OTHER INCOME. NOTARY income is going to be found with OTHER INCOME.
From that page:
======================== Corporate director. Corporate director fees are self-employment income. Report these payments on Schedule C or Schedule C-EZ (Form 1040).
Personal representatives. All personal representatives must include in their gross income fees paid to them from an estate. If you are not in the trade or business of being an executor (for instance, you are the executor of a friend's or relative's estate), report these fees on Form 1040, line 21. If you are in the trade or business of being an executor, report these fees as self-employment income on Schedule C or Schedule C-EZ (Form 1040). The fee is not includible in income if it is waived. ************************** Notary public. Report payments for these services on Schedule C or Schedule C-EZ (Form 1040). These payments are not subject to self-employment tax. (See the separate instructions for Schedule SE (Form 1040) for details.) **************************
Election precinct official. You should receive a Form W-2 showing payments for services performed as an election official or election worker. Report these payments on line 7 of Form 1040 or Form 1040A or on line 1 of Form 1040EZ.
=================================
Good luck...a nice copy of Turbo Tax drives me right through my taxes like a pro. You can do it...piece of cake.
I would not even attempt doing my own taxes without having tax software.
Reply by BrendaTx on 2/5/06 3:52pm Msg #94553
For Income Tax starting place, see Msg #94550
I did not change the subject on the post of Msg #94550 so it is not easy to find. This message should make it easier. ( This is in the thread with #33325)
Reply by BrendaTx on 2/9/06 3:00pm Msg #95880
A Lesson on Attitude for New SAs...
A Lesson on Attitude for New SAs... Posted by JanetK_CA on 2/9/06 2:39pm Msg #95867 from logged in user
A couple of pages back, there was a thread (msg # 95509) from someone asking for copies of other people’s résumés, which got me back onto my soap box. This is with apologies (for using your post) and thanks (for giving me a great opportunity to make this point) to Anonymous 71.56.206.79. I have taken this person’s last post (msg # 95606) on that thread (in quotes below) and added my perspective in the hope that this will help some of you adjust your attitudes in the direction I feel they will need to go for you to succeed in this – or any other – business of your own. (After getting carried away with this, I decided to start a new thread so that this doesn’t get lost in the shuffle.)
"All I want to say is that when people post on here asking a question, all they are looking for is guidance."
Wrong. Maybe you didn't realize it, but what you asked for is the equivalent of copying from someone else's paper at school, also called cheating. Write your own! If you're not sure how to do a résumé, research it, work on it, and then ask for feedback. There are many who will offer their honest opinion and give you good suggestions, but after after putting in hours of hard work on their own résumés, they won't just hand it over to you, if they have any sense. If they do, it's probably not worth getting a copy of. (jmo)
"If you feel the question is stupid or inappropriate then don't respont to that particular thread, you dont need to constatly make your voice heard in a disrespectful manner."
Some of the best advice I ever received from a notary MB (once I finally found them...) was pretty coarse, hard to take and to the point, and it helped me a great deal. It's not always easy, but it's a great idea to ignore the style and look to the substance of the responses from those who are successful and know what they are talking about. (And, after a while, it's not that hard to figure out who to listen to and who to ignore.) Keep in mind, that no one has any obligation to offer someone else the benefit of their own hard-earned expertise for free. Any new person coming to this board should be GRATEFUL BEYOND WORDS to have a chance to pick the brain of the pros! And it’s real easy to blame the messenger if you don’t like the message.
"Im sure that there are decent people out there who are willing to help because they remember what it was like to be starting off from scratch."
Yes, that is partly why people help others here. But mostly it's because they are just good, nice people. It's also because of an interest in raising the overall standards of performance of those in our chosen career path. Poor performance (which we are seeing more and more of) reflects negatively on the whole profession, while excellent performance helps generate respect for what we do. (They have nothing else to gain and potentially business to lose.) And I’d bet you that none of the pros who post here would have asked what you are asking for on an open forum.
"Are you telling me that you decided to get into this industry and you never made any mistakes or asked stupid questions or asked for help in general????"
Everyone makes mistakes when they are learning, but I never expected anyone to serve up the answers for me without any effort on my part. (In fact, I was an SA for a year before I even discovered these boards.) You will gain so much more by finding the answers on your own and are more likely to retain the information. If you can't find the answer, come back here and ask a specific question, but you disrespect the people you would have help you by not first doing your own homework. We worked hard to get where we are and, like any business, aren't about to give away proprietary information, such as client lists, contact information, marketing materials, resumes, etc. etc. And you shouldn’t expect it to be given to you.
"....anyway, I guess it doesnt matter. I just dont see any need to be rude, disrespectful or stuck up."
True, but several clichés come to mind: 'beggars can't be choosers"; "don't look a gift horse in the mouth"; and especially "don't bite the hand that feeds you." Remember, you're asking for a favor here. Why should anyone waste their time helping you if you're just going to complain that they didn't say it nice enough?!
"We all start somehow and I think we should be appreciative and help one another."
Yes, you who are asking for assistance should be appreciative of the generosity of those who freely give their help and support. But let's be honest here. This may sound like a flame, but the truth is that I doubt you have much help to offer to me or to any of the other successful SAs who post here, while we could teach you quite a bit. I know of few, if any, businesses where people will train their competition for free. It's just not smart business. And the concept of helping only others who are geographically distant is an illusion when it comes to online posts, because the guy the next street over can read it just as easily. Do you see what a blessing it is to have so much good information offered to you for the asking? Treasure it, but don't abuse the privilege. There are already a good number of highly knowledgeable and experienced SAs that don’t bother posting here any more because so many either didn’t like the hard truths they were offered or complained about the way it was delivered. Everyone’s loss!
Again, if you take this to heart, I believe you will be much better off. If this upsets you, I’m sorry, but feel free to hurl your abuse my way… I’ve learned to develop a thick skin in this business and I can take it! :>) Besides, if that's the case, I doubt you'll make it for very long at this anyway...
Messages in this Thread A Lesson on Attitude for New SAs... - JanetK_CA on 2/9/06 2:39pm Great post! n/m - christi ausherman on 2/9/06 2:44pm Brava! Nicely said. Did you by any chance leave your - Charles_Ca on 2/9/06 2:47pm Re: Great Post! Hope every one reads it! n/m - JO_PA on 2/9/06 2:51pm Bravo! Newbies, PLEASE READ this thread... - Becca_FL on 2/9/06 2:58pm
Reply by TitleGalCA on 2/9/06 8:27pm Msg #95969
A Lesson on Attitude for new SA's .... by JanetK_CA
A couple of pages back, there was a thread (msg # 95509) from someone asking for copies of other people’s résumés, which got me back onto my soap box. This is with apologies (for using your post) and thanks (for giving me a great opportunity to make this point) to Anonymous 71.56.206.79. I have taken this person’s last post (msg # 95606) on that thread (in quotes below) and added my perspective in the hope that this will help some of you adjust your attitudes in the direction I feel they will need to go for you to succeed in this – or any other – business of your own. (After getting carried away with this, I decided to start a new thread so that this doesn’t get lost in the shuffle.)
"All I want to say is that when people post on here asking a question, all they are looking for is guidance."
Wrong. Maybe you didn't realize it, but what you asked for is the equivalent of copying from someone else's paper at school, also called cheating. Write your own! If you're not sure how to do a résumé, research it, work on it, and then ask for feedback. There are many who will offer their honest opinion and give you good suggestions, but after after putting in hours of hard work on their own résumés, they won't just hand it over to you, if they have any sense. If they do, it's probably not worth getting a copy of. (jmo)
"If you feel the question is stupid or inappropriate then don't respont to that particular thread, you dont need to constatly make your voice heard in a disrespectful manner."
Some of the best advice I ever received from a notary MB (once I finally found them...) was pretty coarse, hard to take and to the point, and it helped me a great deal. It's not always easy, but it's a great idea to ignore the style and look to the substance of the responses from those who are successful and know what they are talking about. (And, after a while, it's not that hard to figure out who to listen to and who to ignore.) Keep in mind, that no one has any obligation to offer someone else the benefit of their own hard-earned expertise for free. Any new person coming to this board should be GRATEFUL BEYOND WORDS to have a chance to pick the brain of the pros! And it’s real easy to blame the messenger if you don’t like the message.
"Im sure that there are decent people out there who are willing to help because they remember what it was like to be starting off from scratch."
Yes, that is partly why people help others here. But mostly it's because they are just good, nice people. It's also because of an interest in raising the overall standards of performance of those in our chosen career path. Poor performance (which we are seeing more and more of) reflects negatively on the whole profession, while excellent performance helps generate respect for what we do. (They have nothing else to gain and potentially business to lose.) And I’d bet you that none of the pros who post here would have asked what you are asking for on an open forum.
"Are you telling me that you decided to get into this industry and you never made any mistakes or asked stupid questions or asked for help in general????"
Everyone makes mistakes when they are learning, but I never expected anyone to serve up the answers for me without any effort on my part. (In fact, I was an SA for a year before I even discovered these boards.) You will gain so much more by finding the answers on your own and are more likely to retain the information. If you can't find the answer, come back here and ask a specific question, but you disrespect the people you would have help you by not first doing your own homework. We worked hard to get where we are and, like any business, aren't about to give away proprietary information, such as client lists, contact information, marketing materials, resumes, etc. etc. And you shouldn’t expect it to be given to you.
"....anyway, I guess it doesnt matter. I just dont see any need to be rude, disrespectful or stuck up."
True, but several clichés come to mind: 'beggars can't be choosers"; "don't look a gift horse in the mouth"; and especially "don't bite the hand that feeds you." Remember, you're asking for a favor here. Why should anyone waste their time helping you if you're just going to complain that they didn't say it nice enough?!
"We all start somehow and I think we should be appreciative and help one another."
Yes, you who are asking for assistance should be appreciative of the generosity of those who freely give their help and support. But let's be honest here. This may sound like a flame, but the truth is that I doubt you have much help to offer to me or to any of the other successful SAs who post here, while we could teach you quite a bit. I know of few, if any, businesses where people will train their competition for free. It's just not smart business. And the concept of helping only others who are geographically distant is an illusion when it comes to online posts, because the guy the next street over can read it just as easily. Do you see what a blessing it is to have so much good information offered to you for the asking? Treasure it, but don't abuse the privilege. There are already a good number of highly knowledgeable and experienced SAs that don’t bother posting here any more because so many either didn’t like the hard truths they were offered or complained about the way it was delivered. Everyone’s loss!
Again, if you take this to heart, I believe you will be much better off. If this upsets you, I’m sorry, but feel free to hurl your abuse my way… I’ve learned to develop a thick skin in this business and I can take it! :>) Besides, if that's the case, I doubt you'll make it for very long at this anyway...
Reply by TitleGalCA on 2/9/06 8:28pm Msg #95970
above post by JanetK_CA, not TitleGal N~M
Reply by Dorothy_MI on 2/10/06 2:37pm Msg #96129
Posted from msg 95364 - Brenda_TX - Newbie Msg for Today
Newbie Msg - Today's thought for new people...
The thread indicated that not everyone is able to learn from a notary rule book. Perhaps that's true, but if so, another kind of work might be better for you.
I am tough on people and wanting them to learn independently because I know how important that is to a person's self-confidence and well-being.
I have a learning disability and ADA type letter from my doc for when I am taking college classes to prove it - I have earned the right not to disagree with someone who is adamant we must be warm and fuzzy about these things. Warm fuzzies don't fix the problem.
I don't buy into coddling people so they come to be dependent on others. If you cannot learn this rule stuff, pick out another career, maybe...don't do something that is nearly impossible to do so that you have to ask for the help of others indefinitely.
Sometimes people think it's unkind for me to redirect people to their notary rules...however, it's my position that the more you can do by yourself, the more solid your future is.
The people you need to watch out for are the ones who want to always be incontrol of knowledge you need IMHO.
If I had not put time over the years into fixing my own computers and learning how, I would be stuck at the mercy of a computer techie half my age telling me I needed a new hard drive this morning. Even if I do need a new one, I can fix that myself and save about $300 on a lap top repair bill. I won't be a victim of society's over-indulgence or a computer geek with a stack of invoices to issue.
Reply by lulu on 2/10/06 3:11pm Msg #96138
Re: Posted from msg 95364 - Brenda_TX - Newbie Msg for Today
Dorothy, I totally agree that the best way to learn is independently. A forum like this is nice to see different ways people handle situations, however, if you don't already have a strong head on your shoulders to make most judgement calls yourself and resourcefulness to find most answers on your own, you should find another profession. Their is no little angle sitting on your shoulder at those appointments. If you haven't researched and are not the type of person who can make those judgment calls at aptmts, you shouldn't be there.
Reply by BrendaTx on 2/13/06 10:20am Msg #96624
Msg List - Going Mobile - adding to #33325 (From BeccaFL)
Excellent List of posts on going totally mobile - adding to #33325
============== Re: I can't find those .... do you have a msg#? Posted by Becca_FL on 2/12/06 8:32pm
You need to learn how to use the search button, it works quite well.
21914 36949 43990 62700 67875
Reply by BrendaTx on 2/13/06 10:25am Msg #96628
Mobile Office - adding to #33325 (From BeccaFL) w/ Keywords
Excellent List of posts on going totally mobile - adding to #33325 - adding key words for searching purposes
============== Re: I can't find those .... do you have a msg#? Posted by Becca_FL on 2/12/06 8:32pm
You need to learn how to use the search button, it works quite well.
21914 36949 43990 62700 67875
keywords
print edocs in car mobile office mobile printer printing in car printing in vehicle printing edocs in car totally mobile going totally mobile inverter cigarette lighter watt watts volts volt amp amps printer in car print on the road printing on the road
Reply by BrendaTx on 2/13/06 3:07pm Msg #96767
From CharlesCA - Adding to 33325 - True Professional Society
Here's what Charles Proposed back in October. ================================= Disclaimer and comments Posted by Charles_CA of CA on 10/3/05 12:44pm Msg #68517 from logged in user
Greetings All:
I just wanted to set the record straight. I have no axe to grind here. I came to this business with the concept of just being a notary to help my local community with notary services. I got into signing because I kept getting asked to do signings and I took the certification and was lucky enough to find Notary Rotary which in my opinion is the most open board around for Notaries.
I have no pecuniary interest in organizing the notaries. I came to this board and the things I saw bothered me. People were not getting paid, they were getting abused by various entities because the notaries were badly fragmented and there was no one looking out for the interest of the notaries without other motives. Those who know me know that I have nothing against making money and I have done quite well for myself. I like to see business do well. If it wasn't for this board I wouldn't have an idea of some of the problems. I also have come to use the Modern Journal because of its superior design, and I support this board by buying my supplies here. I don't want to compete with Notary Rotary or anyone else who has formed a business for the sake of business.
I am looking for the formation of a true professional society, one that is set up for notaries by notaries and is designed to address notary problems with notary solutions. I will not and can not be a director or board member because I have too many other things on my plate right now. I would like to continue to be involved but right now I made an offer to be the incorporator which is a dirty thankless job to set up this organization. The incorporator has to present the paperwork to the varoious government entitites to get it approved. Because I ahve don this for corporation I ahve set up for myself I have some experience in getting it done. I have offered to be the incorporator to provide the catalyst for formation and to actually get things moving in a direction instead of just talking about it. I get frustrated by talk and like action.
The way I would like to see this work is for small local groups to get together and form a traditional organization based on Roberts' Rules of Order. I would like to see each of these organizations have a delegate and send thedelegates to a State convention which then would discuss what they would like to see happen and then select delegates to go to a National Convention to set the tone and the path for the organization as a whole. We don't need to wait until everybody is organized we can start with the existing groups and formalize them. But I am serious about this being a grass roots organization with only the needs of the Notaries in mind. I wouldn't like to see us sell supplies, after all the AMA doesn't sell pharmaceuticals or medical equipment. I would like to see this organization address the needs of the notaries and their specific business needs. There are plenty of directions right now that need to be addressed and addressed effectively. There will be special interests who will want to set the direction based on their own agenda and we all need to be watchful that this does not happen. I believe that we have a good group of people who are proactive and have shown it by going into business for themselves and now we need the backing of a true professional organization to continue.
I am open to any suggestions to do this and will help in anyway I can. I suggest that we establish an organizing board of directors and incorporate the society as a mutual benefit society and have elections as soon as possible to establish an operating board of directors and then they can direct, chage, adjust etc as needed.
Best regards, Charles
Reply by BrendaTx on 3/28/06 4:06pm Msg #109140
Tina of MA re: Fees - When to renegotiate a fee
Excellent analogy. Added this post from TinaMA to 33325.
Re: What's Fair??? (Very long vent) Posted by Tina_MA of MA on 3/28/06 3:59pm Msg #109134 from logged in user
Please people, if you receive separate instructions with the docs, requesting additional services, call and renegotiate your fee.
If I bring my car to the shop for a brake job, and while doing that the mechanic finds that the ball bearings need to be replaced, he calls to find out whether or not I want to do something about that, and will tell me what the *additional* cost for that work is.
If I choose to ignore the problem, then the mechanic will only complete the original job he was hired for (brake job) and be paid the original agreed upon fee.
At no time do I tell the mechanic that he has to fix the additional problem as part of the brake job at the original agreed upon fee -- if I did, he'd laugh his butt off.
This is a business. Treat it as such. No other business allows themselves to be taken advantage of in this manner.
Reply by BrendaTx on 3/28/06 5:04pm Msg #109149
The Other Side of the Coin (back by popular demand)
Someone called me today and asked for this to go onto our thread...adding to #33325. ===============
The other side of the coin... Posted by Roger_OH of OH on 11/13/05 2:25pm Msg #76283 from logged in user
This is a professional board for notaries. When you have the designation of "Notary Public" after your name, there goes with that the inherent responsibility of knowing the laws of your state.
Unfortunately, many come here who were swept up by the NNA recruiting fervor of "part-time effort, full-time income", and all that they know about being a notary is that you have to be one to do loan signings and begin making money. So they jump through that necessary hoop without any real idea of the large responsibilities that go with the title. They come here often exhibiting some sense of entitlement because they had an NNA course - "Now that I have my stamp, where's all the work?" and Please give me a list of companies" are common refrains. These folks often have no sense of the history (notaries go back over two thousand years!), sanctity, or integrity associated with what is a PUBLIC office of TRUST.
When someone comes to the board asking the most basic of questions, they can expect criticism for a) not knowing the basics that their title says they should know, or b) not utilizing the many resources available to find out. One of the reasons for this is that it exhibits a lack of professionalism as well as a degree of incompetence. Rather than feeling insulted or "flamed", consider the advice from others about doing your own research and giving the respect that the office of Notary Public deserves. If we do not police ourselves by demanding a higher standard of excellence, then sooner or later someone else will police us, and perhaps even more states will go attorney-only.
The bottom line is that one is a NOTARY first and a signing agent a distant second. Those that would criticize are only trying to raise the bar that was lowered when NNA began pumping out more and more notaries (and creating their own members) lured by the carrot of easy money. The veterans here are trying to HELP you be a better Notary/SA by hoping you LEARN from their comments, and maybe PREVENT you from making a mistake that could jeopardize someone's home loan.
No one here will hesitate to help with a legitimate question, whether posed publicly or privately. We were all new once, and a lot of bizarre/interesting situations do occur. But if one comes on here not knowing the difference between an ack and a jurat, or what to put for a venue on the county line of the notary certificate, then expect to learn a lesson from those you would be a peer with, and yes, grow a thicker skin.
Please take my comments in the spirit in which they're intended; you expect the mechanic who works on your brakes to be professional and competent, and they are not turned loose upon customers until they do; the public, lenders/TC/SS and your fellow notaries expect a similar standard from you. When posters show they haven't the basics, but still want to cash in, it is frustrating, and cheapens the title they would share with us.
Reply by BrendaTx on 3/31/06 2:55pm Msg #110106
Discussing the title company solicitation....added to #33325
NOTE: Follow the thread beginning with Msg #109853 Posted by Jahari Davis of MI. This will lead into a good bit of info about the cold call on title companies.
=========Here is the beginning post==========
Question Posted by Jahari Davis of MI on 3/30/06 3:38pm Msg #109853 from logged in user
Ok, I just spent the day going around prospecting local title companies and mortgage lenders for business. I was turned down at every last one of them and was told they have notaries. So I gotta ask, where the heck is everyone getting their business from? Are we getting them from signing services, closing services, lenders and title companies that are willing to outsource all their closings or what? I felt like a jackass. Anyone got any insight on this at all?
Reply by BrendaTx on 4/2/06 12:59pm Msg #110399
No HUD with the package from PAW-FL //added to #33325
Re: No HUD with the package Posted by PAW of FL on 4/1/06 1:45pm Msg #110264 from logged in user
This is typical with California based lenders and title companies. CA is an escrow funding state, so they often do not prepare a HUD until funding. However, with table funding states, this can (and has) created some problems as the borrowers expect to have a final HUD at the table when all the paperwork is signed.
Generally there are two common ways to finalize a Real Estate transaction.
One is an Escrow Closing the other is generally referred to as a Round Table Closing.
Escrow Closings: These are most common in Western States but are growing in popularity. An escrow company is an intermediary who handles all of the documents between the Buyer, Seller, and Lender and Title Company. In an escrow closing the buyer and seller are scheduled to come in for the “Signing” at different times. Once the documents are signed the Escrow Company sends the loan package back to the Lender for review. The Lender reviews the documents and if all is satisfactory, notifies the escrow company they are ready to fund the loan. The escrow company confirms to the Lender that they are ready to record the Mortgage/Deed of Trust and Grant Deed and receive the funds from the Lender. Once the Escrow Company has the necessary funds from all parties, they record the required documents at the county recorders office and “go on record”. The transaction is now “Closed” and all funds are disbursed to the appropriate parties.
Round Table: In a round table closing the Buyer, Seller, Realtor, Attorneys, Title Company and Lender may all gather around a table to complete the transaction. Thus the Term “Round Table”. The documents are passed around the table for the appropriate parties to sign. The Lender rarely attends these types of closing and instead relies on the Title Company to protect their interest. Remember the Title Company is an agent for the Lender. Their job is to close the transaction. They are not there to give legal advice to the buyer or seller. The buyer or seller, if they choose, may bring legal council with them. Once the documents are signed, the title agent may be required by the lender to fax certain documents to the lender for their review. Because it is very hard to track people down and people are not as motivated after the closing, Lender’s want to make sure that their documents are signed properly. Once the Lender is happy with the documents they release the funds via a wire to the Title Company who disbursed the funds to the Sellers and Realtors. They also are required to payoff any underlying loans or liens.
With round table closings everything takes place at once. Because multiple things are happening at one time it is not uncommon for these transaction to cause more stress to the parties involved, require last minute changes, or take several hours to complete. Some of the common delays that can occur are last minute conditions that need to be signed by an underwriter, delay in wires from lenders, delays in time for lenders to review the documents, and others items. In all cases remember that everyone is trying to do their jobs and close the transaction. Do not let the process frustrate you or let you get aggravated. It’s better to have a small delay and get the job done right the first time then to have problems later on.
On occasion with a round table closing you might have a situation come up called a “Dry Closing”. This term generally means that all of the documents are going to be signed but for one reason or another the seller will not receive their money while at the table. This condition is most often caused by a wire from a lender not reaching the title company prior to signing all of the documents or the lender wants to review all of the documents before sending their money. While it might irritate the seller who is expecting his money right away, it should not bother you as the buyer. Once again everyone is working to make sure everything is correct. Usually this delay is resolved by the end of the day or by the following day. The one downside for the buyer on a “Dry Closing” is the seller will probably not allow you to take possession until they have their funds. If you are expecting to take possession of the property the day of closing, ask your lender the chances that you will have a “Dry Closing” so you can plan accordingly.
Reply by TitleGalCA on 4/5/06 11:31pm Msg #111438
Signing errors through the lenders eyes by Renee Kovacs
Re: Opinion, you're welcome, and this IS long =) Posted by Renee Kovacs of MI on 4/5/06 6:29am Msg #111103 from logged in user
Ok ... I'm freshly caffeinated and ready to roll =)
To recap my background/frame of reference, I was Closing/Funding manager, Mid-west region office, wholesale lender. Back in the day, we funded 50 mil/month, did about 80 closings/day and as many post-close audits, dealt direct w/ legal, compliance & secondary, had 600-odd title agents and even more mtg brokers active. This gave me a HUGE 'cross-section' of experience with what closers/SA's do, how they do it, and what happens as a result.
If I could get only one, single point across to SA's (especially some of the ones you're referencing, TG!) it would be this: There is almost zero feedback from a lender to a SA. I personally handled over 10,000 closed/funded loans - and do not recall EVER speaking to a mobile S/A other than the rare calls from them re: print issues.
What I see in the S/A world is that an assumption of being/doing 'right' is made, based on that LACK of feedback. Instead of assuming yourself to be "error-free" (in the absence of feedback), assume ONLY that there was never anyone THAT ticked-off or frustrated that they got in touch with you. In fact, I'd go so far as to say assume you HAVE missed a signature, miss-dated something, forgot a stamp, etc. Perhaps 1 in 10 pkgs come back picture-perfect, regardless of who closes them.
The fact is, there just isn't time to waste. Like Accurate posted - the world revolves around the investor - and the loan is costing you money every day it's NOT in a bulk rack waiting for that secondary sale.
The lender's Closing Instructions are a binding contract between lender and settlement agent. The lender says "I want it this way" based on law, and investor's whims and the settlement agent is INSURING that those requirements will be met. If they're not, then the lender can/will enforce the contract.
For every signature missed, page not initialed, whatever - the first question is: Can I sell this loan as-is? Yes? Move on ... (Feedback to S/A = 0) Does it mean then that the doc isn't "necessary"? NO! It means either an 'exception' to the rule can be made, provided the investor doesn't find it commonly missing - or, that I will FedEx it MYSELF to (B) (borrower) w/ a FedEx back to my corp office as a 'follow-up' doc, because THERE'S NO TIME TO WASTE.
Blue ink/black ink - could be Investor requirement, could be just for ease of auditing, could be just frustration level with red/purple/glitter ink ... if it records and it's NOT investor's whim, well, you're not going to hear feedback but that doesn't necessarily mean nobody notices. We required blue, written in instructions - when done in black, it really can tick you off and your brain just screams "GEEZ is it THAT hard?!" Is that really the kind of reaction you want attached in anyway to YOUR name? You sit and audit 50 pkgs in a day and you'll see how ticked you get having to use the 'smear test' on all those signatures ...and yes, you DO have to be certain they're not copies because yes, you WILL find copies of things like the NOTE or the TIL or something equally unbelievable.
Now - if it's something preventing a legal/compliant or valid loan, and I'm very busy, and having a lot of this from the same title office - I MIGHT push back on them, but ultimately it only ends of taking longer, and it's easier/faster to get it fixed myself.
If you don't think these things (errors/omissions) are commonplace - have another think. In busy times, we hired extra hands who did nothing BUT chase after B's for corrections. Most of the larger T/C's have "post close depts" for the same reason.
Well, you say, no feedback - who cares? I'm here to say - sit and do audits day after day after day, you will pick up the patterns and recognize the names and you will pick up the phone out of frustration (and sheer amazement) and let T/C know "I don't want to see this name (closer/SA) again." And you won't.
Well, that addresses the "I never read the closing instructions" and "Blue ink, black ink, who cares?" and the "I've NEVER made a mistake" issues.
The glitter pen joke is no joke, and again - one in maybe 10 pkgs comes back pretty.
I have my own opinion about the "S/A vs. Point-n-Sign" debate. It's not a 'one or the other' thing, like anything else in the natural world - there are degrees and variances. The P/S (Point & Sign) type can certainly get the job done, but my own take is that these are primarily people with little/no industry experience, therefore the knowledge base is heavily weighted toward the Notary side. (Now wait, hold on, let me finish ...) Because you can't "unknow" something, those S/A's who have industry experience AND Notary knowledge would (I theorize) be more likely to act as the "Signing Agent" type, who explain what a doc is, answer questions about what a doc's purpose is, and often can problem-solve. I know how many years it took me to acquire some of my knowledge base - I think a P/S is safer to THEMSELVES to remain strictly P/S unless/until they really know their way around the laws, nuances of the industry, etc. HOWEVER, I think an S/A with a knowledge base that is balanced (both industry and notary knowledge bases) is less risk to everyone else (B, T/A, Lender) but poses more risk to themselves. There are a lot of fine lines to walk, and you'd better know where those lines are before you walk on them.
The P/S (oh boy, here it comes ...) in my opinion is not 'worth' the same pay scale as an S/A based on math. The P/S will not problem-solve, and will cause unnecessary re-closes and 'lost' loans for reasons that really were quite insignificant. Re-closes cost money. P/S's who also demand to be paid 'trip fees' cost money. The S/A who prevents a re-close for something that is easily solved on the spot SAVES money. That knowledge, willingness to step up and the ability to save money has value. The S/A who is willing to take the same risk of non-pymt for an unfunded loan as everyone else (some appraisers even accept that risk, by the way) is going to SAVE money, and that has value.
This is my business (and you have your's, right?). The questions I ask myself include: How can I be an advantage to my clients? How can I bring added value, so that USING ME instead of closing inside or using someone cheaper or using anyone else at all is WORTH IT? As with any business - WHY should they use ME?
What would be the advantage of using a P/S who, when faced with an issue (and don't most loans/docs have issues?), folds up and goes home, then sends an invoice for their trip and hopes to land the signing when it goes back to re-close, so they can bill again? To me, the attitude of "well, if YOU can't even get their name spelled right on the docs, it's not MY problem, ha, I get paid twice now!" is a spin-off of the entitlement attitude. It's almost like the Lender becomes the enemy ... and it's the P/S and B 'against the world'. Yet ... it's the lender's money the B wants, the B's money the P/S wants.
I'm probably done for the day, but I think the discourse is great - thanks, T/G, for opening this up again.
Reply by Anonymous on 4/30/06 6:24pm Msg #116907
Re: Almost everything you need to know to become successful
Hey!!
Thanks so much for the info.......I have a question you said "(9) Read the link listed in my profile on what I did to get started.".....the problem is I couldn't FIND your profile.......could you please email me at [e-mail address] and tell me how I can find your profile or just copy and paste your profile to my email? Thanks!!
Reply by BrendaTx on 5/2/06 12:28pm Msg #117184
Deed of Trust/Mortgage by Atty - Kevin/CT added to #33325
Short answer from attorney regarding the difference between a mortgage/deed of trust and a note by Kevin / CT
Re: Deed of Trust/Mortgage Posted by Kevin/Ct of CT on 5/2/06 12:01pm Msg #117169 from logged in user
The note and the mortgage/deed of trust are two different documents. The note is the promise of the borrower to repay the debt plus interest. The mortgage /deed of trust is the document which secures the note for purposes of foreclosure. I states such as Connecticut each document may be enforced separately. The note may be enforced through a suit for legal money damages. The mortgage may be enforced by an action for foreclosure ...either strict foreclosure in which title to the property is conveyed to the foreclosing lender or foreclosure by sale in which case the property is sold and the proceeds are paid to satisfy the mortgage with any surplus being paid to the the property owner.
Reply by BrendaTx on 5/2/06 12:30pm Msg #117185
Re: Deed of Trust/Mortgage - PAW - Added to #33325
Re: Deed of Trust/Mortgage Posted by PAW of FL on 5/2/06 11:05am Msg #117154 from logged in user
Mortgages and Deeds of Trust are not necessarily the same thing, depending on how the state uses them. Typically, a mortgage is a document in which the owner pledges his/her/its title to real property to a lender as security for a loan described in a promissory note. Mortgage is an old English term derived from two French words "mort" and "gage" meaning "dead pledge." To be enforceable the mortgage must be signed by the owner (borrower), acknowledged before a notary public, and recorded with the County Recorder or Recorder of Deeds. If the owner (mortgagor) fails to make payments on the promissory note (becomes delinquent) then the lender (mortgagee) can foreclose on the mortgage to force a sale of the real property to obtain payment from the proceeds, or obtain the property itself at a sheriff's sale upon foreclosure. However, catching up on delinquent payments and paying costs of foreclosure ("curing the default" can save the property. In some states the property can be redeemed by such payment even after foreclosure. Upon payment in full the mortgagee (lender) is required to execute a "satisfaction of mortgage" (sometimes called a "discharge of mortgage" and record it to clear the title to the property. A purchase-money mortgage is one given by a purchaser to a seller of real property as partial payment. A mortgagor may sell the property either "subject to a mortgage" in which the property is still security and the seller is still liable for payment, or the buyer "assumes the mortgage" and becomes personally responsible for payment of the loan. Under English common law a mortgage was an actual transfer of title to the lender, with the borrower having the right to occupy the property while it was in effect, but non-payment ended the right of occupation. Today only Connecticut, Maine, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Rhode Island and Vermont cling to the common law, and other states using mortgages treat them as liens on the property. More significantly, 14 states use a "deed of trust" (or "trust deed" as a mortgage.
A deed of trust is a document which pledges real property to secure a loan, used instead of a mortgage in Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, North Carolina, Texas, Virginia and West Virginia. The property is deeded by the title holder (trustor) to a trustee (often a title or escrow company) which holds the title in trust for the beneficiary (the lender of the money). When the loan is fully paid, the trustor requests the trustee to return the title by reconveyance. If the loan becomes delinquent the beneficiary can file a notice of default and, if the loan is not brought current, can demand that the trustee begin foreclosure on the property so that the beneficiary may either be paid or obtain title.
Reply by BrendaTx on 5/2/06 12:32pm Msg #117187
Notary Certifying Copy - See Thread beginning w/Msg #117135 n/m
Reply by Dorothy_MI on 5/5/06 1:28pm Msg #117980
Additional Info -- especially if you live alone
Betsy, like you I live alone, but from yours and the post previously I've decided that I will start emailing my schedule with BO name, phone number and address to my special friend and business associate. If he doesn't need the info, it's easy to hit the delete button, but if he ever needs it, he will have it handy.
I feel that this is especially necessary for not only the gals, but you guys as well! And it is not only the BO we have to worry about, but also accidents, etc. And speaking of accidents, my friend is my ICE 1 on my cell phone which we all need to program into our phones. Emergency crews are trained to look for a cell phone and see if there is an ICE number (In Case of Emergency). My ICE 1 also has my ICE 2's number and vise versa. #2 is daughter who lives out of town, but ICE 1 knows if he gets called to call daughter and then go over to my house (if necessary) to get pets. I'm not peronoid (sp?), but cautious.
Reply by BrendaTx on 5/7/06 7:55pm Msg #118279
Manufactured Homes / Finding Info by Lawrence OK
Adding to #33325 - Manufactured Homes / Finding Info
Lawrence of OK posts:
You can find the manufacturers template attached to the under frame just above the pull tongue. The HUD information is usually on the cabinet door under the sink. But if the borrowers still have the paper work, then all the info is on the sales contract.
Reply by BrendaTx on 5/11/06 7:43am Msg #119055
Adding to #33325 - My First Signing & Marketing by eboughey
This is an informative post:
Thought you might like a newbie story - My First Signing Posted by eboughey on 5/11/06 1:30am
I should save this post like you would a baby book so I can remember it always. Or perhaps I should just forget it altogether.
I took the NNA signing course, downloaded e-books, and read and read the message boards to make sure I was on top of my game. I knew it all and had confidence that I would "Get the job done".
So it happened. I got my 1st call and it was a today job. The edocs ended up getting to me 15 minutes before the appt time, the elynx print utility wasn't installed (I had never even heard of it), and then after I finally got the utility up and running my printer kept jamming because of the back and forth between the letter/legal trays. I was not smiling
As I went out on my first signing I thought "You'll be fine. You've trained, you've read everything, you did your homework and guess what? I ended up feeling utterly stupid. I didn't know which docs had to be notarized! Here I thought I was going to be fine and when it came right down to it, I didn't have a clue.
It was a good thing the signing was a bust early in or I would've been on the title company's blacklist for sure.
All these places for signatures, a survey affidavit without notarization details on it (I know, a loose jurat), and only a few of the documents with an area for the notary to sign. I was scared out of my wits thinking that this was the end of my reputation and I haven't finished my first signing.
Nothing prepared me for it. Not the class, not the e-books, nothing. I even looked up the ever popular newbie message here to soak in as much info as I could.
I just started signing up with companies last week and I got 2 calls today. I thought it would be weeks before I started getting calls and I have a full day at a local title company Friday to learn the ropes. Too late.
So anyway, just thought I'd share my first signing that I'm sure will be a nightmare for me in weeks to come. I'm sure it will get better with each signing, but what a way to start!
=============
Posted by eboughey of FL on 5/11/06 7:33am Msg #119054 from logged in user
I had actually created this great marketing presentation (black folder with personalized company name and address info showing through in gold copperplate, introduction on letterhead, powerpoint presentation, flyer and business card). Cost - $3.57 per presentation.
I got raves from all the title companies I brought it to. One in particular didn't need anyone so I just asked if I could sit with them for a day in the life of a title agency. They were great and said 'sure'.
If I could pass on one bit of information for signing agents who are marketing their business "Make the effort to create a nice packet or find someone who can". Many of the title companies I approached said that signing agents come in with just their business card and they don't take much notice of them. They loved the professional look of my presentation and since my primary business is a marketing company, I knew it would be something they'd see around the office and wouldn't want to throw out because it looked nice.
Of course, having said that, I hope I don't get a bunch of calls when I don't feel so confident. I think I may try and find someone around here for the next one and give them the entire fee if they'll just let me tag along.
Have a great day all!
Reply by BrendaTx on 5/12/06 9:18am Msg #119396
Adding to 33325 - StamperWI - Standard Fees Calculation
Re: question about "standard" fees Posted by Stamper_WI of WI on 5/12/06 9:16am Msg #119395 from logged in user
You have to figure what it cost you to do business. Like the cost of running your car (keyword "cost of driving" cost of supplies and equipment. then theres the E&O, Bond educational materials, memberships, phone, internet and all those other little things that add up fast. That is what it costs you to break even and the work part is so far not figured in. Figure the avg time it takes to do a loan. I don't know what minimum wage is now but you should figure at least that. If you do, tighten your belt or find something else to do. $50 signings are understandable if you lack experience. I am sure the SS have figured that out. But you should always try to negotiate the fee higher. I fail to see how one can manage to earn a living at this with $50 signings unless they have free housing, health and car. Even then they would be breaking even at the best!
I have been self employed for years and always have done a business plan every year and re evaluate how I am doing and setting goals for the new year both long term and short. For example, you need a major purchase like a car. What does it take to buy that car and how much do you need to make to add that expence? Thats how much more you need to make just for that expence. This is very simplified but I think you get the idea. Numbers don't lie. It pays to listen to them.
Now, on top of that you have to determine if your services are worth your fee to your clients. The world does not owe you a living. Constantly improve your skills. Organize yourself in a way that you can evaluate the needs of the client and see how it is "do able". Personally if you expect to stagnate and get by with the knowledge and skills you have now, you might as well go work in a factory. There's lots of repetition there. I spend a lot of time researching the market for this business and networking. I also find ways to market myself right down to biz cards at the Kwik trip. Takes other peoples ideas and build and improve on them. You have to be creative...thats the fun part of working for yourself.
Reply by BrendaTx on 5/17/06 11:44am Msg #120472
Msg to New Signing Agents from Sylvia_FL added to #33325
New Signing Agents Posted by Sylvia_FL of FL on 5/17/06 11:17am Msg #120456 from logged in user
Please don't take this the wrong way!
We are all here to help you with notarial questions and questions about a particular company or a particular document. We are not here to tell you how to get started in the business (this is something you should have researched before you decided to become a notary and a signing agent), we are not here to tell you which companies are the best to sign up with. This is something we have to learn by trial and error. There are many companies listed on this site and at other sites, just sign up with as many as you can. Read ALL the messages on this board and make a note of companies with a bad reputation for paying their signing agents.
Don't believe because you are certified by the NN A that that is going to bring you lots of work. If you are a member of the NNA Signing Agent section check and see how many other signing agents are listed in your area (you may get a shock!) 6 years ago there was lots of work to go around, there were not many signing agents, the NNA was not involved in the signing agent business. Now, thanks to the NNA Signing Agents are a dime a dozen.
We are always willing to answer notarial questions and questions pertaining to a particular loan doc. Do not be offended when we refuse to hand over a list of good companies. That is not what we are here for.
If you had a bakery or a clothing store would you help someone open up a bakery or a clothing store right next door to you?
Reply by BrendaTx on 5/18/06 7:22am Msg #120651
Demand for payment letter - adding to 33325 by droman_IL
Re: MISTY_FL- Collection letter success!! Posted by droman_IL of IL on 4/1/06 4:45pm Msg #110293 from logged in user
Not a problem. Here is what I sent:
(Here I stated a brief recap of the previous communications that were sent and the result of that communication). I therefore must remind you of the following:
I am a sworn public official from the state of Illinois. When a fraud is perpetrated in the course of my official duties, I feel obligated to take the following action (IN THIS ORDER):
a. Notify the Attorney General of (ENTER YOUR OWN STATE) of the details and circumstances of the occurrence.
b. Notify the (AGAIN, YOUR OWN STATE) Secretary of State to look into the matter of whether the Lender should maintain their license to do business in the state. Supply the same details to the Secretary of State.
c. Notify other notary publics of the details of non-payment.
d. Register the details of the occurrence with the BBB.
The above actions as outlined above will commence on MONTH, DAY, 2006 if our office does not receive payment before that date. Please send payment to:
And then I entered my mailing address. The date I used was FIVE DAYS from the date of the email I sent. Hope this works as well for you as it did for me.
Reply by BrendaTx on 5/19/06 9:24am Msg #120985
New Signing Agents-Read This First! Adding to #33325 Marlene
ATTN: New Signing Agents, Read This First! Posted by Marlene/USNA of CA on 5/19/06 9:02am Msg #120982 from logged in user
The veteran posters of NotRot become impatient when so many new folks appear on notary forums and message boards exhibiting some sense of entitlement because they completed a signing agent course. Many come to the boards asking basic knowledge questions that should have been learned by studying their state's notary law.
You must be a Notary FIRST and a signing agent second. STUDY the rules of your state, read the boards, and take a training course before you take on the rather large responsibility of someone's home loan into your hands. If you screw it up, you can be SUED!
Understand, we were all new once, have seen our share of weird docs and unusual situations, and do not hesitate to help with a legitimate question. However, we've also earned the right to expect some semblance of professionalism from others who would share our title. Don't just explode onto the boards asking questions that someone with the title of Notary Public after their name should be reasonably expected to know. If you don't know the difference between an ack and a jurat, or which name goes in the "sworn before me by.." blank, then you have not earned the the title of Notary Public, and you certainly should not be conducting loan signings until you do. But we do this for a living and don't have time to answer the same questions over and over and over. . .
If you think you are being treated rudely here, it will pale in comparison to how you will be treated by companies and their borrowers after you have butchered someone's $300,00 loan docs and caused them to lose their rate lock. What you may perceive as rudeness from us is, in reality, something that may prevent you from making a colossal mistake in the future. Take the responsibilty of learning all you can about the laws and exactly what it means to be an officer of your state. Don't view this as just a hobby for extra money, it's a serious business,and should be treated as such. You have to have the proper equipment, licenses/state registrations, etc, to operate legally and professionally.
You expect the mechanic who works on your brakes to know what he/she is doing, and they are not turned loose upon customers until they do. The public, lenders, and SS expect a similar standard of professionalism from us as notaries, and it's YOUR responsibility to meet that standard. It's not rudeness to be told to do your research first, it's an attempt at re-educating you before you do some real damage by not knowing something your title says you should. Failure to do so will only lead to the continued lowering of the notary bar, and it will be just a matter of time before incompetent notaries lead to the establishment of more attorney-only states in which notaries may not perform loan signings.
To view the "newbie" recommendations of experienced notary signing agents, use the orange Search button on the Notary Talk homepage and find message #33325. Read it, including all additional posts to it, print it, study it. Use the orange Search button to look for answers to questions you still have. Then, if your questions have not been answered, post a message on the board and ask us - but not before you've done everything you can think of to get the information yourself.
With thanks to Roger/OH, Brenda/TX and many other contributors.
Reply by BrendaTx on 5/19/06 9:32am Msg #120987
Signing prior to printed date ReneeK - added to 33325
Re: Signing took place before date on DOT and Note Posted by ReneeK_MI of MI on 5/19/06 4:56am Msg #120959 from logged in user
You'll probably have to have the RTC re-signed.
Lenders have 104 reasons for closing prior to the printed "Transaction" date, and it's all perfectly legit, legal and their decision to make AS LONG AS you use the current, correct date when notarizing. Generally, the borrowers are also to use the current, correct date wherever they place a date, also.
However, NEVER shorten anyone's rescission period, unless you are specifically instructed to do so.
There are several dates for loan documents:
TRANSACTION date = the date the transaction becomes effective, and that might be in the future. If it's in the past, most likely it's an error but not necessarily - however, the RTC then should be corrected (and I would recommend by lender's directive!). This also brings the interest adjustment into play, and a call to verify the docs are dated correctly would be in order.
SETTLEMENT date = this is the date on the Hud, and should match the date being signed, do not change to correct w/o receiving lender OR title's directive
PRINT date = simply the date the docs were printed.
DISBURSEMENT date = date on Hud indicating the projected disbursement of funds. It's not ALWAYS printed or shown, often is blank. It's also the date used to calculate the interest adjustment, would generally be the date after end of rescission date (next business day). NEVER change this (unless by specific directive of title).
SIGNING date = this would be the date actually signed. Anything YOU date would always be with actual & correct date.
RESCISSION or End of Rescission date = the date the rescission period ends. This can be LONGER than the minimum of 3 business days.
To "Back-date", for those who need clarification, is for the Notary to use a date prior to the actual & correct date. This is illegal. (Of course, they would want borrower to back-date as well.) It is requested with the intent of fraudulently presenting the docs as if signed the day (or days) prior, in order to disburse sooner (usually to meet the end of the month, usually so the L/O can have that loan in this month's paycheck). Not only is it illegal for YOU, it is illegal (FEDERAL LAW) for THEM to fraud the rescission & usually it becomes shortened to less than three days.
Reply by BrendaTx on 5/19/06 9:37am Msg #120988
Re: Signing prior to printed date BarbaraL-CA added to 33325
Re: Signing took place before date on DOT and Note Posted by BarbaraL_CA of CA on 5/19/06 12:56am Msg #120954 from logged in user
Wells Fargo sends loan packages direct to borrowers with instructions to find a notary and get the necessary notarizations. Those docs are usually dated in the future. But the borrowers sign and date them for the date they are signng. None that I've done have ever been rejected.
>>>>>
Barbara is one of my favorite people on this board...she's so quiet, kind and to the point that I just wanted to make sure she knew I felt this about her. Others, me included, post loud and long and often...Barbara is one of our unsung heros on this forum.
**thank you Miss Barbara!!!!****
BrendaTx
<<<<<<
Reply by BrendaTx on 5/19/06 4:48pm Msg #121146
How to get help on this forum - CaliNotary added to 33325
Isn't it amazing? Posted by CaliNotary of CA on 5/19/06 4:44pm Msg #121143 from logged in user
A person asks a reasonable question that shows that she's done her research and already has some idea of how to do this job, and she gets a quick and informative answer to her quesiton without any attitude.
Yep, it really is that easy.
Reply by BrendaTx on 5/22/06 1:59pm Msg #121500
About Backdating... by ReneeK adding to 33325
Re: BACK-DATERS & NEWBIES PLEASE READ THREAD! Posted by ReneeK_MI of MI on 5/22/06 5:06am Msg #121402 from logged in user
The law itself notwithstanding, this thread might help you make your decision the next time you consider back-dating!
Everytime you back-date, you:
1. Sell your integrity for the benefit of someone else's greed. 2. Leave behind recorded PROOF of your crime (Mtg/DOT) 3. Assume that nobody will ever know. 4. Participate in breaking FEDERAL law (frauding recsission period, for one - usually back-dating is going to shorten it to less than 3 days)
You will be handed a line of crap - most often, that the Borrower's rate lock will expire and they'll have to have a higher rate (this is designed to snag your humanity AND obtain borrower's cooperation, and it's USUALLY BS!) Back-dating is all about homage to the Almighty Dollar, usually from the Loan Officer, often w/o the Lender's knowledge or the Borrower's awareness of the laws being broken.
THE FACT THAT THE LENDER IS USUALLY NOT A PARTICIPANT IN THIS should be very scary to you!! The vast majority of loans are brokered - a Loan Officer, through his employer, brokers (acts as a middle-man) the loan to the Lender. L/O's are the usual push behind back-dating. In the majority of these cases, the LENDER is on guard looking to catch you, too!
And do you think most Borrowers KNOW that they, you and anyone else involved in the fraud are breaking state and federal laws? That they, you and anyone else involved can be easily caught, which would result in any of the following:
1. Immediate & complete pay-back demand from Lender of the mtg funds 2. Borrower's then filing lawsuit against YOU and everyone else for repair & restitution of those damages (there's no insurance you can obtain that will cover lawsuits against your ILLEGAL ACTIONS). 3. Your finding some other means of making a living, and now with a criminal record 4. Loan Officer joining you on Monster.com
Reply by BrendaTx on 5/27/06 2:22pm Msg #122706
Professionalism and Responsibility
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General Discussion Welcome to the Notary Talk General Discussion Forum. Before posting, please read the
Rant -- Professionalism and Responsibility Posted by Tina_MA of MA on 5/27/06 2:09pm Msg #122702 from logged in user
I want to address the issue of Notaries and their attitude of not being perfect.
No one is perfect. However, you can make it seem as though you are perfect ***by thoroughly checking your work***. This will lead to ***you finding your own mistakes and fixing them yourself***.
No one needs to know that you are not perfect, other than yourself.
I am amazed that, rather than taking responsibility for their own work, Notaries would rather point the finger at SS, TC, and lenders, stating that they make mistakes all the time, therefore, it is okay if we notaries make mistakes.
It does not matter who else makes mistakes. It only matters that you make absolutely certain that your work is error free.
This means that you must check your work at least twice, or more, to make certain that YOU CATCH ALL OF YOUR OWN ERRORS and YOU FIX THESE ERRORS BEFORE SENDING YOUR PACKAGE OFF.
This is not about being a perfect person; this is about making certain that your work is error free.
The reason there is so much handholding and babysitting in this industry, is because NOTARIES DO NOT CHECK THEIR WORK TO MAKE CERTAIN THAT IT IS COMPLETELY ERROR FREE.
Act like a professional and check your work. Stop bringing this industry down with your laziness and excuses about “not being perfect”. Take responsibility for your own work product.
I just got the ignition coil fixed on my car earlier in the week. I know my mechanic is not perfect, but he damn well have better checked his work thoroughly before giving the car back to me. That’s called being a professional – checking your work to make certain it is error free.
Reply by BrendaTx on 5/31/06 5:55pm Msg #123304
Apostille (or apostilles) Adding to #33325 [by Gerry VT]
Re: apostille Posted by Gerry_VT of VT on 5/31/06 3:56pm Msg #123285 from logged in user
The search feature will indeed find many posts that will give some suggestions about how to get an apostille, but the ones I've seen didn't emphasize a few simple ideas.
First, the reason for an apostille is that people in foreign countries don't want to keep track of who can perform notarial acts in all the countries in the world, so they have devised a two step process. You, the notary, perform a basic notarial act just as you always do (although I've heard foreign countries are partial to gold-colored foil stickers used with embossing seals; I have no personal experience). Then the secretary of state, or the SOS's authorized representative, looks up the notary's name and verifies that there really a notary by that name with an active commision as of the date on the document. The SOS then attaches the apostille, which essentially vouches for the notary. That way, the foreign country only needs to keep track of a few thousand officers who can issue apostilles, rather than hundreds of thousands of officers who can notarize documents.
Second, it is really up to the signer to obtain the apostille from the SOS, although you could do that as a service, just like you drive to the borrower's house as a service.
A note of caution: there seems to be a tendency for people to want apostilles for copies of documents that really should be handled by somebody other than the typical notary, for instance, birth certificates and university diplomas.
Reply by BrendaTx on 6/1/06 10:39am Msg #123434
Addition to 33325 - First & Second by ND-WA and CMS-NY
This is a good and common question:
"What's a first and second?"
Two NR Posters answered:
Re: 1st and 2nd Posted by Ndwa of WA on 6/1/06 9:57am Msg #123415 from logged in user
AKA piggy back, combo, double, or 80/20 where you'd have 2 sets of loan to be signed.
========================= Re: 1st and 2nd Posted by CMS_NY of NY on 6/1/06 10:07am Msg #123423 from logged in user
An 80/20 is the type of loan package the borrower went with their Loan Officer. The "80" is 80 percent of a 1st Mortgage and the "20" is 20 percent of a 2nd Mortgage.
So, for a $100,000 loan amount the borrower would obtain an $80,000 mortgage on a first (generally with a LOWER interest rate) and a $20,000 mortgage on a second (generally with a higher interest rate than the first).
2/28's are mortgages where they are FIXED for 2 Years, then turn to an ADJUSTABLE Rate for 28 years. (Which would total a 30 year mortgage). On these types of mortgages borrower's usually obtain a lower interest rate than a 30 year fixed for the first two years....most borrower's generally refinance before the rate starts to adjust.
Reply by Ndwa on 6/2/06 4:20pm Msg #123740
By BrendaTX 5/26/06: *...for those who understand business*
The tide is turning - for those who understand business... Posted by BrendaTx of TX on 5/26/06 7:34am Msg #122425 from logged in user
Networking through my Texas Network is really paying off in rev mort land. Seems the quality of my associates and our marketing is finally getting us to the top of the heap. Oh happy day.
It's a great week. The part-time job I took just set the wheels of prosperity in motion. Shake the bushes and the fruit will fall. Do NOT give away your services for cheap. You'll never profit like that...but greedy middlemen will profit off of you. they'll tell you they are really having to cut your fees and other bull to make you boost their profit margin.
Keep your own profit margin reasonable, do what you have to do to support yourself, but make your business support its purpose. Do not support your business.
Working a short time at the SBDC has re-emphasized what I have been saying. I'd say that's a pretty good source of advice. I have been validated by professional advisors and by the business I run, as well.
If you do not believe me, go check out your local SBDC. They'll tell you what you are doing wrong...or doing right...how to make a business plan, etc. It's free.
Reply by BrendaTx on 6/6/06 7:04pm Msg #124404
Id on the Amish - Stamper/WI - adding to 33325
ID'ing Amish Posted by Stamper_WI of WI on 6/6/06 6:40pm Msg #124400 from logged in user
I met a banker for her personal loan signing today and we got to talking about difficulties in ID'ing some people. She told me that many Amish here are getting SS# and or EIN# because banks won't give them loans without them. I asked her about thier lack of ID's. She said they have worked out a way to do that using their elders as credible witness's.
Reply by BrendaTx on 6/8/06 10:54am Msg #124746
Newbies - a lesson on attitude by Janet K - adding to 33325
Re-Post: A Lesson on Attitude for New SAs Posted by JanetK_CA of CA on 6/8/06 12:35am Msg #124712 from logged in user
With all that's been going on here the last day or two, maybe it's time I reposted this again. (Well, actually someone asked me to do it...) It seems some of you can't be bothered to read the "Important Notice" that shows up at the top of the page when posting, let alone all of message 33325, so once again (copied from message #95867):
********************************* A couple of pages back, there was a thread (msg # 95509) from someone asking for copies of other people’s résumés, which got me back onto my soap box. This is with apologies (for using your post) and thanks (for giving me a great opportunity to make this point) to Anonymous 71.56.206.79. I have taken this person’s last post (msg # 95606) on that thread (in quotes below) and added my perspective in the hope that this will help some of you adjust your attitudes in the direction I feel they will need to go for you to succeed in this – or any other – business of your own. (After getting carried away with this, I decided to start a new thread so that this doesn’t get lost in the shuffle.)
"All I want to say is that when people post on here asking a question, all they are looking for is guidance."
Wrong. Maybe you didn't realize it, but what you asked for is the equivalent of copying from someone else's paper at school, also called cheating. Write your own! If you're not sure how to do a résumé, research it, work on it, and then ask for feedback. There are many who will offer their honest opinion and give you good suggestions, but after after putting in hours of hard work on their own résumés, they won't just hand it over to you, if they have any sense. If they do, it's probably not worth getting a copy of. (jmo)
"If you feel the question is stupid or inappropriate then don't respont to that particular thread, you dont need to constatly make your voice heard in a disrespectful manner."
Some of the best advice I ever received from a notary MB (once I finally found them...) was pretty coarse, hard to take and to the point, and it helped me a great deal. It's not always easy, but it's a great idea to ignore the style and look to the substance of the responses from those who are successful and know what they are talking about. (And, after a while, it's not that hard to figure out who to listen to and who to ignore.) Keep in mind, that no one has any obligation to offer someone else the benefit of their own hard-earned expertise for free. Any new person coming to this board should be GRATEFUL BEYOND WORDS to have a chance to pick the brain of the pros! And it’s real easy to blame the messenger if you don’t like the message.
"Im sure that there are decent people out there who are willing to help because they remember what it was like to be starting off from scratch."
Yes, that is partly why people help others here. But mostly it's because they are just good, nice people. It's also because of an interest in raising the overall standards of performance of those in our chosen career path. Poor performance (which we are seeing more and more of) reflects negatively on the whole profession, while excellent performance helps generate respect for what we do. (They have nothing else to gain and potentially business to lose.) And I’d bet you that none of the pros who post here would have asked what you are asking for on an open forum.
"Are you telling me that you decided to get into this industry and you never made any mistakes or asked stupid questions or asked for help in general????"
Everyone makes mistakes when they are learning, but I never expected anyone to serve up the answers for me without any effort on my part. (In fact, I was an SA for a year before I even discovered these boards.) You will gain so much more by finding the answers on your own and are more likely to retain the information. If you can't find the answer, come back here and ask a specific question, but you disrespect the people you would have help you by not first doing your own homework. We worked hard to get where we are and, like any business, aren't about to give away proprietary information, such as client lists, contact information, marketing materials, resumes, etc. etc. And you shouldn’t expect it to be given to you.
"....anyway, I guess it doesnt matter. I just dont see any need to be rude, disrespectful or stuck up."
True, but several clichés come to mind: 'beggars can't be choosers"; "don't look a gift horse in the mouth"; and especially "don't bite the hand that feeds you." Remember, you're asking for a favor here. Why should anyone waste their time helping you if you're just going to complain that they didn't say it nice enough?!
"We all start somehow and I think we should be appreciative and help one another."
Yes, you who are asking for assistance should be appreciative of the generosity of those who freely give their help and support. But let's be honest here. This may sound like a flame, but the truth is that I doubt you have much help to offer to me or to any of the other successful SAs who post here, while we could teach you quite a bit. I know of few, if any, businesses where people will train their competition for free. It's just not smart business. And the concept of helping only others who are geographically distant is an illusion when it comes to online posts, because the guy the next street over can read it just as easily. Do you see what a blessing it is to have so much good information offered to you for the asking? Treasure it, but don't abuse the privilege. There are already a good number of highly knowledgeable and experienced SAs that don’t bother posting here any more because so many either didn’t like the hard truths they were offered or complained about the way it was delivered. Everyone’s loss! [And got sick of hearing the same questions over and over and over..... you get the point.]
Again, if you take this to heart, I believe you will be much better off. If this upsets you, I’m sorry, but feel free to hurl your abuse my way… I’ve learned to develop a thick skin in this business and I can take it! :> Besides, if that's the case, I doubt you'll make it for very long at this anyway...
Reply by BrendaTx on 6/23/06 2:52pm Msg #127826
Date Clarification - Roger OH - adding to 33325
Re: Date clarification Posted by Roger_OH of OH on 6/23/06 2:49pm Msg #127825 from logged in user
Some docs are NOT date sensitive, and all you have to be concerned with is that the RTC dates are correct and the date of your notarizations reflect the date of signing. You do not have to change all the other docs.
Reply by BrendaTx on 7/9/06 1:15pm Msg #131934
Considerations for getting started/Dorothy MI /add to #33325
Posts taken from #131581 - applies to all areas in the USA. ==============================================
help in michigan Posted by rhonda whaley of MI on 7/7/06 5:39pm Msg #131581
how do i get started in michigan as a loan signing agent are there alot of jobs in the michigan area like wayne oakland and macomb conties please help
Re: help in michigan Posted by Dorothy_MI of MI on 7/7/06 5:58pm Msg #131588
Rhonda, It will be very hard to get started in Michigan as a loan signing agent. Read todays newspaper about the real estate business in Michigan and the refi business is not far behind it. Four and one half years ago when I started really all you needed was a seal, a car, a cell phone, a fax and still breathing to get work. Today is a whole other story. Usually the last week of each month and the first week of each month are good bread and butter times for me. Not this past month. In fact, I'm leaving here shortly to go on my first signing of this whole week and it's already Friday. I got one from one of my regulars for tomorrow, Saturday and that is all the work so far for July and Monday will be the 10th, 1/3 of the way through the month.
You don't say if you have any experience at all in loan signings. If not, this definitely would not be the time to break into this business. Thanks to the NNA and their wonderful seminars telling people how easy this business is and how lucretive, we now have a very large pool of notaries chasing a rapidly deminishing pool of work. If a signing service can choose between an experienced loan signing agent and someone who has never done one before in their life, who do you think they will call. I'm not trying to be mean or hateful, just telling the realities of this profession. And if you are thinking that you will be able to just do this nights and/or weekends and supplement your income, I can tell you it will probably be a NEGATIVE cash flow.
To really make a success of this business you need to be available 24/7, willing and able to accept last minute assignments, be willing to almost eliminate all social life, work every waking hour that you are not doing signings, preparing for signings or preparing docs for shipment on marketing, marketing, marketing. Do you have any background in this field? And be prepared to go 3 to 4 months before you get your first call.
I live in the center of Oakland county and there are over 200 notaries within 20 miles me and that doesn't even cover Oakland County. Do you have a reliable car because if you go into this you will put a LOT of miles on your vehicle and gas is still in the $3.00 gallon range. There is a lot to consider before you even think seriously about going into this profession at this time. The first few months I can guarantee that you will be shelling out a lot more money than what will come in your mailbox.
Re: help in michigan for dorothy Posted by rhonda whaley of MI on 7/7/06 6:06pm Msg #131590
I have been a notary for 5 years just never really thought about the loan signing business until recently, my sister lives in Knoxville TN. and she makes alot of money there and only been doing it for about 6 months I just thought the same opportunity was in michigan since michigan was a bit larger than knoxville. but thanks for the input
Re: help in michigan for dorothy Posted by Dorothy_MI of MI on 7/8/06 10:02am Msg #131736
Rhonda, although the Detroit Metro area is a LOT larger than Ktown, it also means that it was very attractive for the NNA to set up seminars here. That perhaps has not happened in Knoxville (not enough population to make it that profitable for them). Go to "Find a Notary" button and put in your own zip code and it will tell you how many members of NotRot are within 20 miles of you; then type in your sister's zip code and see how many are in her area. This will give you an idea of the amount of competition you will be facing. Of course, that does not list every signing agent in the area, just the ones who've signed up with NotRot.
I understand that you've been a notary for 5 years, but unless in that 5 years you've done at least some loan documents you are still a newbie. Notarization is just a very small part of the job we do, albeit an extremely important part. Can you read and understand a HUD? Can you understand an adjustable rate note or heaven forbid a "pick a payment plan"? Do you know what a 1003 is? Can you explain the TIL and the difference in the interest rate? Do you have a business plan? Do you have reliable transportation? Do you have a computer with high speed internet access? Do you have a fast laser printer? Cell phone, Fax, etc.? Do you have a credit card with a decent available balance because unless you have a nice nest egg you will be needing it to purchase your tools of the trade. Are you willing to make the sacrifices to make this business a success? OR, are you just looking to pick up some "pin money" doing this evenings using your employers phones, time, computers, printers, paper, etc.? If your answer to the final question is yes, then you really are not serious about this business or profession and are just viewing it as another get rich quick scheme and we won't be seeing yuur name on the board very much in the future.
Those of us who have been here for any length of time, see people come on all the time. They post or reply to almost everything, really gung ho and when the reality of this business sets in, they move on to something else. To be a success in any business, the most important ingredient is tenancity! And patience! And being able to take rejection and let it roll off your back!
As I said earlier, these are just some of the points to ponder.
Reply by Brenda Stone on 7/17/06 1:24pm Msg #133627
For the Newbies.. Things to carry with you/ADDING TO 33325
For the Newbies.. Things to carry with you Posted by PJM/MI of MI on 7/17/06 12:31pm Msg #133611
You may not be in Journal state, but keep one anyway. I write down the returning tracking #'s in my journal because I seem to get called for a tracking # when I am driving down the road. A roll of tape. Some companies allow the borrower to have monthly payments deducted from their account and a voided check needs to be attached to the document. (Stapling isn't acceptable). And most people don't know where a roll of tape is.. unless it's close to Christmas time. Legal size mailing envelopes. A cashiers check or even cash needs to be sent back in a secure envelope.. not floating loosely with the docs. (After sealing, I tape it shut, too). Pens of black & blue colors. Some lenders REQUIRE a different colored ink than your state. A listing of all of the companies you have done business with ..and phone numbers. A COPY of your Notary commission, bond and insurance. You'd be surprised how often you may need to show this. (Some borrowers are skepitcal of us.. bear with them). BLANK pieces of paper. You may have to have the borrower write a little note to the title co or lender, and often times, they can't find a piece of paper either. HELPFUL HINT: If you have another "side" job, do not solicit it while at a closing. You'd be amazed how many times loan officers, signing agencies and title companies call the borrowers to find out how the closing went. I know of two instances where notaries have been "fired" for soliciting another business. Good luck to all of us!
Reply by BrendaTx on 7/17/06 1:41pm Msg #133634
More Things to carry with you/ADDING TO 33325
One thing I carry that I find invaluable is a full sheet Posted by hcampersFL of FL on 7/17/06 1:39pm Msg #133632
magnifier. I bought it at Office Depot for $7 and change. It really helps with the older folks who have trouble seeing the fine print. I have had to us it on occasion myself. Sometimes the print is just hard to read. I also carry a mini stapler. I attache the voided check with this instead of tape unless other wise instructed.
Reply by BrendaTx on 7/17/06 1:55pm Msg #133639
Re: More Things to carry with you/ADDING TO 33325
My NSA briefcase contains... Posted by Lee/AR of ? on 2/3/05 9:13am Msg #19302
8 each blue & black pens, a calculator, business cards. envelope slitter, couple binder & paper clips, magnifier sheet so people who forgot their glasses can read the docs, 1 plastic 2-compartment legal-size folder to hold docs & b's copy, a 12 compartment thingy with every 'extra' doc I might need--i.e. Loose acks, jurats, sig/name aff, a/k/a, etc., a plastic-sleeved sheet of paper w/every area UPS-FedEx Drop box location, 1/2 dozen sheets of notebook paper just in case b needs to make notes, State Notary Handbook (it is small) , little bitty stapler, a plastic-sleeved really good generic explanation of Docs & TIL, a hard-topped mouse pad (for 'notary-stamping' on rough surfaces), a prepaid phone card, a pair of footie socks (for muddy paths/white carpets/fussy b's), small flashlight, 3 desks (OK...just legal sized hard plastic things)...oh, yeah & my Journal & Stamp. Whole thing weighs 5 lbs--exclusive of docs. Ain't nothing I'm not prepared for...cause it's all happened and I've used every fool thing in it at some signing or another... BTW, you should see the look on people's faces when they realize that they don't have a clean, smooth, flat surface in their house & I pull the 'desks' out of my briefcase!
Reply by Brad/AZ on 4/3/07 2:30pm Msg #183548
Re: More Things to carry with you/ADDING TO 33325
I also carry a small copier in my car. Most lenders I work with want a copy of the primary ID's (driver's licenses usually). If this isn't common to your state then don't bother, but I generally do it for every loan in addition to all of the patriot act documents some lenders are requiring. If their secondary ID is NOT a social security card then I make a copy of it as well. I prefer not to use SSC's becuase I record both ID's in my journal.
Reply by BrendaTx on 7/19/06 2:11pm Msg #134093
Slow down in Business - Surfers or Signers - add to #33325
Slow down in Business Posted by ewing2surf of CA on 7/19/06 11:31am Msg #134029
My records go back to 1999 and July was my slowest month every year. However you are aware that this is a rare business opportunity.
My friend who owners a Surf Shop tells me he sells more surfboards on days that the surfs up. That analogy applies to our business in a way. In the beginning there were lots of waves (loans) and very few surfers (loan Signers). The local swimmers (veteran notaries) became surfers (loan Signers) and were able to pick and choose the best waves (loans). It was easy to get very good at surfing when there was so much opportunity. Some of us got 4-5 good waves a day!
Then a certain Surfing Association moved into the area and started marketed surfing to other swimmers most of who had never seen the Ocean, that worked well enough so the Association took surfing inland and to distant shores. It was a success and they gave surf lessons and sold thousands of surfboards.
Now the storm is clearing up and the waves are getting few and far between but the Surf Association is acting like the storm that was creating all the good surf is still raging and continues to teach surfing to swimmers and NON-swimmers who are unaware of the dangers of the ocean as well as the gradually dropping surf.
The masses now crowd the calming ocean shores waiting for leftover waves that may never come. Each with a surf lesson and a shiny new surfboard. Frustrated that a few veteran surfers keep paddling around them catching the few good waves left and leaving the rest of them to fight for the scraps.
Most of those shiny surfboards will end up in the garage but what will become of all those surfers?
Reply by BrendaTx on 8/12/06 12:05pm Msg #138398
Adding to 33325 - From One Newbie to Another - Great advice
Re: How to get started Posted by Michelle/AL of AL on 8/11/06 10:49pm Msg #138341
Hi Erica,
I'm a newbie and figured it might be helpful for you to hear from me.
1) There's a lot of good information to be obtained from the seasoned professionals on this site so it's important that you read the postings, Search the archives, Read the postings, Search the Archives and Search the archives and listen to what's being said. Try not to be too sensitive when some make comments that offend you or hurt your feelings. Definitely don't take it personally. They are not singling you out. NotaryRotary is not for the tender-hearted. If you are tender-hearted then the best thing to do is use the Search button and read and learn from others but don't ask questions.
I think I can safely say that every day/night someone new types the same question you typed "How do I get started in this business?" The answer is always the same - the answers you received.
2) Don't buy any printers, business cards or other equipment; don't join any other notary associations; don't sign on with any website builders until you've searched this board for suggestions, otherwise you will waste your money. I promise you that you will. Last month I don't know what got into me. I went into a store to purchase a PCL6 printer because after researching NotRot (NotaryRotary) I knew it was what I needed. But lo and behold, when I got home and set the printer up I realized it had everything except PCL6! I'm still scratching my head trying to figure that one out. I must have been hoodwinked or bamboozled.
Finally, 3) I check my profile at least once a week and believe it or not I always find something to improve or a correction to fix. Your profile on this site really is your billboard or business card. Keep tweaking yours until it's perfect.
Good luck to you - your sister newbie.
Reply by hcampersFL on 10/30/06 7:10am Msg #156085
Re: Adding to 33325 -Check list of compter needs for working
Checklist Posted by David Kral of MN on 10/30/06 4:02am Msg #156073
1 Duo Core processing is nice 2 Large harddrive 40GB on the lower side 60 to 80gb 3 Built in CD burner nice(might get DVD if you are going to use that) 4 Several USB ports(parallel port is nice too). 5 Wireless nice(I have a printer with a wireless print server and a wireless router) 6 Extra would be a 12 cell battery nice but you can order it later 7 Ethernet port nice
I get them from Best Buy. I like Compaq Presario. I buy the warranty plan. On the last two the screens have cracked at the hinges and BB has replaced them rather then send them in. I have bought about two in 10 years and had about four. I like the ability to walk in a drop it off. I bought one for a realtive for around $550.
You can usually find a good lappy on sale at BB especially during the holidays. Black Friday is coming!
I do not recommend taking your laptop out of your home/office. If you lose it, it has sensitve data.
Other things:
Good printers: Brother 8220(sale rebates (OfficeMax))<====Frequent coupons Brother 1020(sale/rebates(OfficeMax)<==Frequent coupons wireless print server(bought on sale near Free after rebate(BB--they dont do rebates any more)) wireless router(Bought on sale around $10.00 after rebates) External hard drive(I use it to back up Quicken and my other computer files, Excel, Word, etc.(( Buy on sale around $20.00 after the rebates)) Bluetooth(syncs my Palm((after rebate $10.00((Circuit City))) USB Flash Drive 512(after free after rebate$0.00(Circuit City) QuickBooksSimpleStart(($5.00 after $75.00 rebate awhile back((CircuitCity)) Norton AntiVirus--Free after rebate(It is good for about a year, but rather than pay, I just pickup another free after rebate copy the following year. So....it is always free.) (Use office supply store coupons, price match and sometimes these products are filler items when you are purchasing paper.)
[Around $400.00 for the other stuff. Order over the internet and do free instore pickup. The printers were over $50.00 each so they shipped for free to my home.)
Now if I could only get toner....free after rebate!
Reply by BrendaTx on 2/9/07 6:43am Msg #174858
From one Newbie to another…Sharon Nunley
From one Newbie to another… Posted by Sharon Nunley of OH on 2/7/07 9:41pm Msg #174608
Although I have been a signing agent for a short time, it has been a very successful "short time" for me. Success does not come easy, however. Many, many hours (ask my husband and son!) have been invested in equipping myself with the knowledge to make my career work for me. One must have a passion for whatever one's career choice is. A passion will motivate you to seek every given opportunity to gather as much knowledge as possible to make you successful.
After pouring over many books, websites, blogs, etc, I have gained a wealth of knowledge that cannot be taken away from me. I have gleaned knowledge from those who have been in business much longer than I, and I appreciate and respect their knowledge and their willingness to share.
Following this website has taught me a very valuable lesson; “do not wait for someone to hand you a fish. LEARN to fish!” And that, dear newbie, is the basis of true success. Knowledge builds confidence and confidence brings business. Business gives success and success is very rewarding.
Many thanks to the notaries who have and are willing to help us who are just beginning, but I warn you, my newbie friends, these notaries only help those who help themselves!
So…as I step down from my soapbox remember this. Your success will ultimately depend upon you. Be strong in your passion and your dedication, believe in yourself and enjoy what you do, and you will be fine.
Reply by BrendaTx on 2/9/07 6:44am Msg #174859
Re: From one Newbie to another…Sharon Nunley
Okay, I added the message to #33325.
Reply by Laura Vestanen on 3/18/07 6:36pm Msg #180513
History of the loan industry and how it affects NSAs today
This text was copied from posts by Charles CA in March 2007.
Please ignore the misspellings. Charles is HIGHLY intelligent. English is his FOURTH language.
Read and learn! LV
The programs to buy and sell loans were introduced by the Federal Government sortly after we entered the Great Depression. A lot of people lost everyting they had in the depression. It used to be that mortgages were renewed ach year. Once a year you wold go sit down with your banker and you would discuss your crops or you business and see how everything was going and then your banker wuld renew your mortgage for another year. Back in those days everything was hard money and the bank literally financed your property from the assets of the bank wich ws actually the savings of their customers. When the run on the banks ocurred there were no deposits and so the banks had to call their loans because they had to pay that moneyack to their depositors, if they were not able to then they were bankrupt (the origin of the term). Ther federal governement stepped in and bailed out what it could. Out of the depression we got a lot of excellent deals like the FDIC and HUD and FannieMae and Freddie Mac. That was the beginign of the secondary mortgagemarket.
Traditionally the federal goverment through its programs ran the secondarymortgage market. The banks would make property loans based on the criteria set by the secondary market. Traditionally one had to have a down payment which was cushion in case one defaulted on the mortgage and when the bank acumulated enough mortgages it would package them together and send them in to the federal government and then in turn would sell them to large corporations, historically nsurance companies and then the federal government would get its money back and make it available to the banks to lend more. For many years that worked very well.
Well enter the modern age and there were some very spart individuals who said well if the feds can do this we should be ableo do it better and so there was a new secondary mortgage market based on stock corporations and traded on the stock exchanges around the world. The lenders were not banks and they became very aggressive in their lending practices bcause of the increasingly greater funds available as the stocks grew in price. The banks still made loans but they wold not make loans to people wo cold not afford it those went tothe aggressive companies who made up products like the 80/20 loan, the 125%LTV loan, the various ARMs and some even more creative products. The business changed and to cover their potential financial losses which were considerable there was the rise of PMI or private mortgage insurance, wich insured the lender in the case of defaults. So now the scene was set, corporations were overextended and didn't pay much attention to the paper they were buying from the lenders and the lenders were under pressure to invest the ever-growing pot of funds that was being set in their laps. Lenders started telemarketing and trying to palce more and more loans and as the pol of traditional loan customers started to have all the loans they cold use the lenders went to non-tradtional markets: people who really didn't have the funds nor the personal parctices consistent with good fiscal management. LOs started to go to SISA (Stated Income and Stated Assets loans) and then would lie on the applications, after all it was "stated" and not "verified" and one cld state whatever they wanted. Of course a lot of people never read the small print about actually having told the truth. As the discoveries were made that the loans weren't worth the paper they were written and becasue of the slowing economy the major players started having an increase in defaults. New Century was one of the first casualties but others followed and as the defaults increased investor confidence decreased and the stock prices fell and the margins got worse and very soo what turned out to be a house of cards is now collapsing.
The fallout is going to be extensive right now we are seeng the finger pointing goingon but eventually the fingerpointign is goin to turn to prosecution and soon a lot of people willl be reaping the rewards of what they sowed. And so it goes.
That is where PMI comes in. Private Mortgage Insurance is paid by the borrower and protects the lender in case of default. Interestingly enough there seems to be no lack of buyers for these foreclosed homes at least on the West Coast, I understand that the heartland has a different situation. The REO brokers in California are making a lot of money right now and the trading is ot and heavy. REO=Real Estate Owned and means the foreclosed upon real estate owned by the lender. For federally chartered lenders there is a ratio of loans to foreclosed homes that they must maintain and so some have incentives to sell quickly. Just as an aside even with the meltdown in the sub-prime mortgage area the appreciation for real estate has maintained its pace on the West Coast. The only thing that has changed is that homes are on the market longer than they were last year. People will tell you that prices are dropping but that is not correct. What has happened is that there was so much pressure on home sales last year that some people still are suffering from whiplash and continue to adjust their prices up but they are not selling for the original asking price. One has to be careful because there are real estate agents who are not particularly comfortable with the appraisal process. When you get a CMA from a real estate agent it is a Comparable Market Analysis which basically means that they look at the MLS and see what is on the market and tell you that is what your home will bring. The fallacy in this market is that the market is nflated and the true comparison should be in the sold listings and most real estate agents are not ambitious enough to go looking for recent sales. So if you are askiong your agent to determine a market value for your home you really shoujld ask where his price came from. If you compare apples to apples you will see that in Southern California the market continues to appreciate at about the same rate as last year.
Reply by Laura Vestanen on 4/2/07 7:54pm Msg #183435
If you're a newbee and take $50 signings, PLEASE read
SD/CA of CA posted the below on 3/30/07 2:41pm Msg #182957 VERY solid, practical advice. Read and learn!
If you're a newbee and take $50.00 signings, as I did, PLEASE read further.
I log ALL costs related to my notary business and after 3 years I figured it was time to find out where I was at financially. I also include all auto expenses (mileage) in the cost.
I took all income and all costs and found that 2/3 of my income was expenses. That means that for a $50.00 signing my profit was $16.67. Not good.
Now if you figure the minimum time it takes to do a simple signing, here's what you get. Pre-sign time: 1/2 hour minimum. Travel to site: 1/2 hour minimum Signing time: 1 hour minimum Travel home: 1/2 hour minimum Invoice/ship: 1/2 hour minimum Minimum Total: 3 hours
You're making less than $6.00 per hour.
Go to McDonald's, they pay more and there's less stress.
Reply by Tim_Mphs/TN on 4/28/07 3:02am Msg #187664
Update to Famous Message 33325
I have been working my way through the Famous Message # 33325 and wanted to post some observations about it. (I have already emailed this to Brenda Stone, as I believe she was the source of most of that message. She said to go ahead and post it here.)
"Item2) Purchase Monica's book at amrnotary.com." I have been all over their website. They are now a SS and there does not appear to be any kind of link to any book for sale by them. They do have a link to Just Point and Sign's website, where you can buy their book(s) and audio tapes, but those are not by any Monica -- different person entirely and a different (more expensive) version of NR, IMHO.
"Item 6) Consult the SBA's website." This is great! I have bookmarked it and will be returning to it to mine the info there. Thanks!
"Item 9) Read the link in my profile about what I did to get started." This makes more sense as part of Brenda's How to Get Started article. It needs a link in the message (or a URL to go to) for it to be useful to those who don't know it was Brenda being referred to and how to get to that profile.
"Item 19) Contact wildsignings.com for info on their training course. They sell a book." The domain name is not functioning at all. According to whois.net, that domain is not registered to anyone and is available for purchase. In other words, this item is no longer valid and should be edited out.
Item20) about the forms and efanniemae.com -- Efanniemae.com is another great site that I will go back to and gather info and insights and samples. On the parenthetical comments about nbsigning.com, this domain name is still registered, but it is not active -- it will not come up when entered in the address bar -- so, that one needs to be edited out, too.
Finally, one overall observation. The message concludes that you will be successful if you do all this. I believe it would be more accurate to say you will be successful IF you read the books after you buy them, interpret them and adapt them to your state's laws and your own style of work, and put them into practice. Simply buying the books and visiting the websites and doing the research will not make you a success -- those are precursors to actually doing the work. Of course, YOU know this -- but it should be stated much more clearly in the Famous Message # 33325, IMO.
Reply by Stella Gonzales on 5/3/07 7:23pm Msg #188699
Re: Almost everything you need to know to become successful
This is good stuff. Thanks for taking the time to share with us "newbies".
Reply by BrendaTx on 5/4/07 12:12pm Msg #188799
Dressing Professionally - by kcg/IN - adding to #33325
Dressing Professionally (Long) Posted by kcg of IN on 5/4/07 11:18am Msg #188783
I did some in-house closings for a local company recently and they had so many they brought in another notary - she was as bright and shiny as a new dime dressed in her Dockers, a bulky brightly striped sweater and her new Reboks. The LO's kept looking at her strangely. It occurred to me that some of the young notaries have never worked in an office situation and honestly do not know what "dressing professionally" really means. I'd like to offer some suggestions.
When you go into a financial institution, you will note that everyone working there is in business attire. As a signing agent, when you go into a borrower's home you are representing a financial institution. Often, you are the ONLY human the borrower will ever see and it inspires confidence in him/her when you look as though you actually work in the industry and are not the pizza-delivery person.
Footwear: If your footwear are held to your feet by a thingy between your first and second toe it is NOT a shoe, it is a flip-flop. I don't care how many sequins, plastic flowers or pictures of Spiderman are on them....if they slap the soles of your feet when you walk, they are NOT business shoes. Also, if they bear the name Nike, Rebok or any other athletic company, again they are NOT business footwear. You may see people scurrying down the street dressed in business attire and tennies, but I can almost guarantee that they are either carrying their business shoes or they have a pair under their desk at work.
Slacks: Business-attire slacks are not normally folded on shelves under the the Lee's or Dockers banner. They are hanging up in the section of the store where you will find tops and jackets to match. You don't have to spend a lot of money on them......JC Penney's, Kohls, etc., have an array on sale almost every day of the week. You can get a polyester blend that you just wash/dry and put back on without the need of an iron (Iron - def - a flat metal thing that, when plugged in can be used to take wrinkles out of clothes). There are other materials that business slacks are made of but they do NOT include anything held up by a string. Those are usually almost always sold in the Pajama/Loungewear section and that is just what they are. Not appropriate
Tops: T-shirts are unacceptable. Doesn't matter how much you paid for that diamond-studded shirt that says "Spoiled", "B$$CH" or "I'm With Stupid" ....it's a T-shirt. Invest in a couple nice tops or blouses to match those ever-so-lovely polyester blend slacks or skirts. No, this is not the outfit you would wear to meet friends at the mall or the local bar but hey, you're working - representing a financial insitution, not playing. Also remember that you are NOT auditioning for Girls Gone Wild or to play a CSI agent on tv running from lab to lab solving crimes with your boobies hanging out. No need to have Mr. B's eyes glaze over while he concentrates more on your cleavage than the papers and Mrs. B would appreciate it also.
Grooming: Along with lack of deoderant, greasy hair and armpit hair hanging out, nothing says "I'm simply NOT into personal grooming" more than chipped fingernail polish. Look at your nails before you dash out the door.....if the polish is chipped, fix it BEFORE you go to your signing. If you have no polish on and your nails have dirt (eww) under them, CLEAN them. Your hands are on display constantly during the signing. Remember, you are going for that professional look, not the grunge look. 4-inch decorated nails? Well, I won't even go there.
Makeup is a choice.....if you have lovely skin and can get by without wearing it and not have people (as in my case) say..."oh, you look so tired" or "oh, don't you feel well", then you're fine. I personally feel it completes my look - also I don't scare people when I'm wearing makeup.
If you are clean and have used your deoderant, then there is no reason to douse yourself with so much perfume that the borrowers pass out or have to fumigate when you leave. Some people have allergies to perfume - be considerate.
Don't wear clothing to try and show off all your tattoo's. Most of the borrowers are middle-aged or older......they are NOT impressed. In 10-20 years when EVERYONE on this planet has tats, then it'll be a different story. Also, ease up on the "bling" - it's pretty distracting for the borrowers.
Perhaps if we can all dress professionally, the companies we work for can stop sending pages of instructions on HOW to dress. And can concentrate on getting those docs corrected before they send them to us.....and can concentrate on paying us in a timely fashion....and.........
Reply by BrendaTx on 5/28/07 9:18am Msg #192332
All of the VA Crespa questions - by Shannon Va- +'d to33325
All of the VA Crespa questions Posted by Shannon_Va of VA on 5/26/07 11:40pm Msg #192242
I have to chime in here....I dont post alot here.....and there are a few of you out there who private message me with questions...so here are some of my answers and I thought I would share my thoughts with everyone....
First let me start by saying I have been in the title business for 16 years, since the day I graduated high school...literally....I have well over 1000 closings under my belt, as well as being a title examiner for most of those years...I have worked as a title processor and escrow officer, and most recently I have opened my own title agency......so with that said...this is not to be considered legal advise in any way...just my experience and take on the whole thing...
To become CRESPA certified...there is no 'test'....it is a tedious pain in the butt process that goes something ike this...... FIRST, you need to become a licensed title producer..check out experioronline.com or prometric.com...testing info and test guidelines there...NO STUDY MATERIAL ($59)..... AT THE SAME TIME you send in a request to the State Police for a criminal background check, there is an app on there web site (15.00) SECOND.....you pass and send to the state an application for your license, along with that background check ($35 i think)...see the virginia bureau of insurance web site...... ...when you get your license you then.... THIRD.....you need to be appointed by an underwriter within 180 days...lawyers title, chicago title, southern title, who ever...just someone..... FOURTH...you need to be bonded, yes, yes you do.....(as a notary signing agent, VA does not require a bond, but to be crespa certified, you do)....a surety bond, not a fidelity bond...($500) FIFTH...when you receive the original bond, you send in the original, yes the original, along with a copy of your title producer license and a copy of your e&o insurance which must be a minimum on $250,000.00....once they receive all of that good stuff you will get a letter telling you they have it on record..then SIXTH...you fill out an application for the bar association ..www.vsb.org....and send it in ($15.00)... You will get back a pretty certificate in about 2 week....and Wa La....your certified.....
Seems like such a pain for that little price of paper......
Now if you do all of this, you are now able to be a full fledged settlement agent in Virginia
MY POINT OF VIEW...for those who care.... As a settlement agent, i do not care if you have this to do a notary closing for me, but what i do care about is that you have e&o insurance...... I dont think having the certification is necessary just to sit and witness signatures and notorize some papers....you arent explaining the docs line by line, you are simply saying...this is your truth in lending, please sign here, this is your note, please sign here......Now I go more into it than that, but is a fine line you walk so you must be careful....but the state feels you need to be
But I have found signing companies will call me because I am certifed, and I have others who really dont care......
Please feel free to email me if you want, just click my profile link......
Reply by BrendaTx on 9/4/07 6:41am Msg #209232
First, learn the basics of signing. Added to #33325
This is a very good post (and to the point) by a long-time successful signing agent:
Posted by Bob_Chicago of IL on 9/3/07 9:30pm Msg #209216
First, learn the basics of signing. You must be very familiar with the notary laws of your state and also with the loan dox that you will be presenting to the bwr for signature.
Make sure that you have the proper hardware and software to perform your job efficiently, quickly and at a reasonable expense. I find that most of the jobs that I am doing now are e-mail.
When you get a call get as much info as you can Where will you be meeting the bwr, what time, how will you be receiving dox, when will you get them, how big is the loan pkg, is it one loan or two?????
Try to get the person calling you to quote the first price. Ask how much can you pay? gives you a better starting point than if you make the first offer.
As was stated , this is not a great time to get into this business. The best days are behind us, at least for a while.
Good luck.
Research this board using the search button. There is a wealth of info here but you need to learn what is wheat and what is chaff.
Reply by Laura Vestanen on 11/11/07 5:35am Msg #220678
Important for NSAs in Illinois, Maryland, So Carolina, Mass
Copied from message 220613 by Dave Heine of FL. Other messages in that thread are also helpful.
Ok, you asked how we do closings in Illinois. We can go to our underwriters website and search for title companies/attornies in that area. We can call them and set up closings through them, just like when they have closings in our area we they can call us. Some title companies are picky and want other title companies to do the courtsey closing.
As far as is it an underwriter thing, no, I Illinois, Maryland, South Carolina, and Mass it is set by state laws or in regulations by the Department of Insurance that we can not use notary signing agents or signing services.
Understand that if we choose to skirt the law, and there are those that do that, since the underwriter and the law in particular has set the "practice", not following the guidelines sets me up for "malpractice" and if I have to buy back that loan or laons, I really do not think that A) my underwriter is going to be happy as it sets me up for a title claim, B) the state will more than likely take sanctions against my license (which is reported to all the other states I am licensed in and they will also take some kind of sanction) and last but not least would be C) my e&o carrier will not be happy as they will have to pay the claim, then come after me and also the company for the loss.
So all in all, it is not worth it to lose my licenses over to not follow the directions of my underwriters and the law.
In Illinois, you fall under the Division of Financial Services, and per state la you need to have an independent escrowee license.
This is from the DFS website:
The Act also requires the certification of Independent Escrowees. These independent escrowees receive deposits, in trust, of funds or documents for the purpose of effecting the sale, transfer, encumbrance or lease of property held until the title to the subject property is in prescribed condition.
The state looks at the fact that you receive the DOCUMENTS and therefore fall under the licensure act. This is from an ALTA publication in 2003 and is still relevant in Illinois:
However, the Department of Financial Institutions of the State of Illinois has asserted that signing/notary companies advertising and operating in Illinois must be certified as Independent Escrowees, although at recent date, there were no such Independent Escrowees licensed in Illinois . An Independent Escrowee is defined as a person, other than a title insurer or title insurance agent, which receives deposits in trust of funds or documents for effecting a transfer or encumbrance of real property “to be held by such escrowee until title to the real property that is the subject of the escrow is in prescribed condition.” Several cease and desist orders had been issued against signing companies based on the Department's interpretation of the applicability of the requirements for an Independent Escrowee.
Reply by BrendaTx on 11/15/07 2:47pm Msg #221476
Before you think about starting - by CJ in CA - add to 33325
The problem is . . . Posted by CJ of CA on 11/15/07 2:24pm Msg #221468
Things were VERY busy these past few years. Everone was becoming loan officers, title agents, brokers, notaries, signing services and appraisers. Notary companies were cranking out signing agent classes and making a lot of money by promising a pot of gold to everyone. That was how THEY made money. Everyone was busy and making money. Then the mortgage crises happened. Everthing came to a screeching halt. Suddenly, there was this huge loan machine and no one borrowing money anymore. They could not borrow money because their houses values went done and the subprime loans (100% financing, neg am, PPP and adjustibles) were all yanked off the market. So now everyone was was involved in loans is sitting at home twiddling their thumbs, and trying to figure out how to pay the bills. Many compaines went out of business: Loan companies, mortgage brokers, title agencies, signing services, etc. Many of the hundreds of thousands of people out of work are becoming notaries becuase they remember how busy we were. But if no one is borrowing, then there is nothing for us to sign. I used to do between 100 and 70 jobs a month. Now I am lucky to do 20. It's kind of like selling 8-track players: if the market isn't buying them, it doesn't matter how many you have to sell or how good they are. Lots of companies closed down without paying their back invoices, so we wound up working for free.
The notary classes are trying hard to stay in businsess too, so they are still running their ads that say notary work is "lucrative" with "flexible" hours, you can make $100,000 in your "spare time", and "pefect for stay home moms".
1. Lucrative if it is busy, which it is not. 2. Flexible means "whenever the borrower wants you", which can be anywhere from 5:00 am to 11:30 pm. 3. $100,000 per year? Only if you worked 24 -7. But who gets 2:00 am jobs on a consistant basis? That is a lie. It if were possible, I would have been doing it. I was plenty busy. 4. Spare time: That's like saying, "raise a two-year-old in your spare time. You are on call 24-7, even when you go out of town. there is no "spare time" 5. Work from home? I was NEVER home. I worked from my car. It was more like living in my car. I am glad my kids were grown, my daugher at home liked to do her homework and my husband is a foodie, so he didn't mind cooking every nigth after work.
But now I am home with LOTS of time on my hands.
THEREFORE, it will be very hard to find someone to "Help" you get into the business. Any business that can be had, they are not going to show you how to take it from them. They don't hate you, its just that no one can afford to share the little bit that is barely there.
I am not trying to be mean, I am telling you the truth. I used to to 1/3 of my business before the 15th, and 2/3 after the fifteeth. I was gone every day. I had no life, and my husband complained that he felt like a bachelor. I was gone days, nights, weekends and holidays.
But here it is, the middle of the day. I've done my laundry, my chores, my gardening, and now I am going to look at the library books I got yesterday. Yesterday I ran all my errands since I had nothing else to do.
Reply by MistarellaFL on 8/16/08 11:36am Msg #260310
NSA Professional Standards
NSA Professional Standards Posted by MichiganAl of MI on 8/15/08 10:00am Msg #260165
Renee Kovacs and I have been working on starting our own Michigan network over the last month. I won't get into it any further or post any links because frankly, I think we've all seen more than enough advertising and link posting lately. But part of the project includes setting standards for what we think an NSA should be/could be. This was put together through input from many individuals and other state networks. Just some food for thought:
Provide clear & accurate loan document presentations at signings - Describe to the borrower the documents being signed and point out the terms of the loan. Understand the difference between this and UPL. An "exceptionally professional" loan signing agent is NOT just a notary who points & obtains signatures.
Guarantee the accuracy of our services 100% - Should our work ever contain an error or omission accountable to us, correct it and resolve it IMMEDIATELY and at our own expense.
Value our profession - understand how undervaluing our service and professional skill impacts the industry as a whole. Place a respectable value to our business, our services, our knowledge & professionalism, and our industry as a whole.
Understand & uphold the GLBA, the Privacy Act, and proper business ethics - All information pertaining to a borrower is to be held in accordance with these Acts, which INCLUDES our absolute abstinence from marketing anything, in any way, to any borrower or signer at any time, for any reason with the SINGLE exception of notary services (where appropriate). This includes but is not limited to mentioning ANY affiliations we may have with products (such as Mary Kay, Avon, etc) or services (such as Money Merge Accounts, Pre-Paid Legal, Real Estate, etc).
A WRITTEN Privacy Policy.
Have the appropriate hardware & software needed, and the skill to use them - Including a laser printer, have high-speed internet service, available fax service, and are reachable by phone and/or e-mail at any reasonable hour. Maintain accurate business records, have an organized process, and conduct ourselves as a Small Business owner rather than a Notary with a hobby.
Complete familiarity with our own state Notary Public Act - Knowledge of the laws governing Notary Publics allows us to be exceptional in our field, and prevents us from ever submitting to any person's attempt to intimidate us into performing an illegal act. Never compromise the laws by performing illegal acts, including but not limited to falsifying a date on our notarial certificates, accepting less than satisfactory identification, or participating in something we suspect could be illegal or unethical.
Strive for same-day return shipping of loan packages - Understand our clients' need for expediency AS WELL AS accuracy. Return all packages the same day whenever the appointment time allows for it. Understand that this is one of our clients' most frequent complaints of the notary loan signing industry and as an exceptional NSA, we view same-day shipping as a crucial part of our service.
Know when to ask a question, and whom to ask - Understand that it is always better to ASK for direction than to risk doing something wrong. An exceptional professional knows when to ask, and also knows where to go for the correct answer, and does not fail to ensure that they understand precisely how to provide accurate service at all times.
Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/31/09 4:28pm Msg #290599
The Client/Vendor Relationship -- a MUST see video!!
Here is the true skinny on Presentment work aka Honor/Dishonor work aka Notary Acceptor aka Notary Mail Forwarding work
Note re business potential - Only notaries in a small handful of states are permitted to handle this work even though a seal is rarely used. So business opportunities for US notaries are few and far between. CA, WA, and AZ are among the many, many states forbidding this work.
All of this work involves using UCCs - the Universal Commercial Code. UCCs are international commerce codes.
There are no set rules or procedures for how to use UCC codes. But some smart people have come up with some strategies that seem to work for lots of people.
These strategies are passed around via internet "radio" programs, emails, CDs, DVDs, and word of mouth or email.
That's why most of the people who call us about this work have absolutely no clue what notaries are and are not permitted to do - in general as well as in a specific state.
Unfortunately for us, the people using the UCCs and Presentments to fight foreclosure are in a panic so they make little sense because they are in an emotional state, not a rational one.
Here's a website pdf outlining the usual process - http://famguardian.org/Subjects/Taxes/ChallJurisdiction/NotaryCertDefMeth/RespondingToPresentments.pdf
I personally know one very honest and good man back east who is using this method to fight foreclosure on his house. Basically, he has been using the Presentment process as a stalling mechanism while he assembled, sued, and now conducts his ongoing court case against the lender. His court case has been going on for many months.
He has proof the lender falsified documents so there is every chance of him winning.
I wish him all luck.
Other people using Presentment to fight foreclosure use the UCC codes to demand copies of documents the lender says they don't possess. (The borrowers have the copies and just want the lenders to show the court the docs with illegal activity or promises that were later broken.)
In these cases, the lenders just don't appear in court because they know they are guilty as heck. After several no shows, the borrowers are awarded the win and get to keep their home.
Lots of the people who want notaries to do Presentment work are nuts, I'll grant you that. Especially the so-called Constitutionalists who want to get out of paying their income tax.
Other people just want to right a wrong, like the people I have spoken with.
I spoke with another fellow here in the west several times. He is fighting a big box store for bait and switch selling. Basically he is using the UCC1 codes to get the store to admit to wrongful activity so he can return the item and get his money back with all interest charged on his big box store card reversed.
What's great about this type of conflict resolution is that it levels the playing field for the little guy because the UCC1s can be used entirely away from the courts and attorneys. UCC codes require that businesses respond to consumer complaints in specific ways over specific time periods. When attorneys are used, it's usually a matter of whoever has more funds for lawyers is the winner. With UCC code use, anything can happen. It is all about behavior, history, and proof on paper.
"Leveling the playing field" is music to this old flower child's ears.
As I said in a previous post, only notaries in a small handful of states are permitted to handle this work even though a seal is rarely used. I refer all notary service inquiries to a highly experienced and professional notary in PA. Since almost all of the work is handled via postal mail, this works fine.
flower child skinny Now everyone knows how old I am.
Hope this helps, LauraV
Reply by Robert/FL on 11/12/09 11:51am Msg #310790
Re: True skinny: Notarial protest / certificate of dishonor
*** Not intended to be interpreted as legal advice. I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in any state and may not give legal advice or accept fees for legal advice. The below information is for purely informational/research use only. Any questions should be directed to legal counsel***
WHAT A PROTEST IS
The only legitimate use of a protest is to have evidence that a negotiable instrument was presented to the proper person or authority for payment and that payment was refused. When payment on a check or promissory note is refused, this is called dishonor. A protest is simply a certificate that dishonor has occurred.
WHAT A PROTEST IS NOT
Many tax evaders and anti-government groups believe that they can use protests as way to get out of paying a debt, avoid taxes, void their social security number or birth certificate, and other actions. The UCC defines negotiable instruments as a "promise to pay an amount of money", such as a check/draft or promissory note. What these anti-government groups don’t understand is that protests are only used for negotiable instruments, not general correspondence. Negotiable instruments do NOT include letters or demands.
For example, the IRS will send someone a notice stating that they owe $500,000 in taxes. The person sends a letter to the IRS demanding that they provide records stating exactly how they came to that amount. When the IRS ignores the letter, the person will try to secure a notary protest saying that the IRS refused to give information, or refused to "perform", and therefore dishonored the "transaction". However, the use of notary protests is not to protest refusal of information or refusal of "performance". It is only used to protest refusal of payment. Notaries should refuse to get involved with any sort of protest involving tax or foreclosure evasion.
THE PROCESS OF PROTESTING
The process of protesting a negotiable instrument begins with the drafting of that instrument. In most cases, this instrument is either a bank draft (i.e., a check) or a promissory note. In either case, one person has promised to pay another person a certain amount of money. In the following example, we will use a check, as this is the most common form of negotiable instrument. With a check, the drawer of the check (the signer of the check) gives the check to the holder (the person being paid), and the holder takes that check to his or her bank to deposit or cash the check. If the check is legitimate, the bank will process it and credit the funds to the drawee’s account. When the drawee presents the check to the bank for payment, this is called presentment.
Presentment may be done by the drawee of the check or any other person. It does not have to be done by the notary, and presentment in and of itself is not a notarial act. In the “old days”, notaries were usually the ones to perform the presentment, but it is certainly not required. However, it doesn’t hurt either, because when you, the notary, present the check, you have personal knowledge of the facts which means that you will be able to execute the protest with more reasonable certainty.
When the holder makes presentment of the check, they will endorse the reverse of the check, thus making it payable to the bank where the check is being deposited or cashed. The date that the check is deposited is considered the day that the instrument was presented. The bank then subsequently presents it to the bank of the drawer. The drawer’s bank (the bank stated on the face of the check) is called the “drawee”. When the drawer’s bank (i.e., the drawee) sees that there is insufficient funds in the drawer’s account, the bank will stamp the check with “NSF”, indicating “No Sufficient Funds”, and the instrument is therefore dishonored. Dishonor occurs when a bank refuses to honor a check.
A check stamped with “NSF” is almost always acceptable as proof that the check was refused. However, if the drawer wants additional documentation to that effect, or, if the check was foreign and the “NSF” stamp may not be sufficient for use overseas, the drawer can obtain a protest from a notary.
A protest is simply a certificate of dishonor given under the hand and seal of a Notary Public. The protest may be drafted by the notary upon information satisfactory to him or her. In most cases, a notary who is presented with a check stamped “NSF” will accept the stamped check as sufficient evidence that the check was, in fact, presented to the bank and that payment was refused. However, it is entirely in the notary’s discretion whether or not the evidence presented is satisfactory. If the notary himself performed the presentment, he will be entirely sure that the statements contained in his protest are true and correct. But as stated above, the notary is not required to make the actual presentment, but the notary should have reasonable evidence that the check was presented and dishonored. If the notary executes a false protest because he was not satisfied as to the evidence presented, the notary may be held liable.
In most states, the only statutory requirements for drafting protests are taken directly from the Uniform Commercial Code, which requires that protests include the following information:
1. The protest must identify the instrument; i.e. it must either include either a photocopy of the check, or an exact transcription of the check, with all information on the face and reverse of the check, including endorsements. It is easiest to simply photocopy both sides of the check onto a legal size page and draft your protest on that same page. 2. The protest must certify that presentment was made. 3. The protest must certify that the instrument was dishonored by nonacceptance or nonpayment. 4. The protest may certify that notice of the protest was furnished to all parties involved. After drafting the protest, the notary should draft a notice of that protest and send copies to the drawer and holder by certified mail. The notice should include the same information as the protest.
Quite simply, this is all a protest is. It’s a document certifying that a negotiable instrument was presented for payment and payment was refused.
The Oregon Secretary of State provides a simple example: John Jones (drawer) writes a check from his account at Wells Fargo (drawee) to pay for a refrigerator he bought at Sears (holder). Sears deposits the check at its bank, Citicorp, which presents it to Wells Fargo for payment. However, Wells Fargo, noting that John Jones is overdrawn, denies payment of the check (known as dishonor). Sears eventually gets the NSF check back and tries to get John to pay up. If John doesn't make good on the check, then Sears (or Citicorp on behalf of Sears) can request a notary public at Wells Fargo to protest the dishonored check. The notary attaches a certificate of protest to the NSF check (notice of dishonor) and sends it to Sears (as protester) and another original to John Jones. Sears presents the protest with the dishonored check to civil court and takes action against John Jones.
Promissory notes will even more rarely require protests. Most promissory notes contain language that if the signer of the note fails to make timely payments and defaults under the terms of the note, that the holder of the note can demand all remaining payment in full. If the signer refuses to pay it, the holder can obtain a protest to certify that refusal. In this case, the process is the same as with a check, except the “bank” in this instance is the signer of the note, and the “endorser” of the check is the holder of the note. In this case, presentment should personally be made by the notary so that the notary has personal knowledge of the refusal.
Protests are authorized notarial duties in: Alabama, Arkansas, California, Colorado, District of Columbia, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Maryland, Maine, Minesotta, Mississippi, North Carolina, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Nevada, New York, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont, Washington and Wisconsin. Many of these states do not have protests listed under their notary statutes, but instead place them under the "Uniform Commercial Code" statutes. In most states, the statute regarding protests is:
A protest is a certificate of dishonor made by a United States consul, vice consul, or a notary public or other person authorized to administer oaths by law of the place where dishonor occurs. It may be made upon information satisfactory to that person. The protest must identify the instrument and certify that presentment has been made, or, if not made, the reason why it was not made, and that the instrument has been dishonored by nonacceptance or nonpayment. The protest may also certify that notice of dishonor has been given to some or all parties.
Reply by John_NorCal on 10/24/09 10:22am Msg #308550
Believe in yourself!
Those who think of themselves as a commodity can only compete on price to differentiate themselves from the next signing agent. Believe in yourself that you are providing a valuable service. Your professionalism and attention to detail will set yourself miles apart from the signing agent who is willing to take low fee offers just to get the job. That is the signing agent who will point and sign and be out the door in minutes. You are there to provide a valuable service to the client at their convenience in a place convenient to them. Remember that and respect yourself for that.
Reply by John_NorCal on 10/24/09 12:52pm Msg #308560
Forgot to add.....
You will have many, many requests to do signings for $50.00 and even less. Taking these types of fees are a disservice and an insult to you and your fellow signing agents. When presented with these requests, just remember the words of Nancy Reagan.......
"Just say NO!"
Reply by Laura_V on 10/29/09 11:25am Msg #309126
Our fees + their relevancy to state of industry
Posted by Julie/IL of IL on 10/23/09 4:16pm Msg #308482
Now let me say this. After I read [a post by LauraV about old dogs + new tricks] I was baffled. Same questions and thoughts that all of you have already posted. I don't "normally" reply to too many topics on this forum as there are already so many helpful posts, that its really not necessary for me to. Unless I can add some advise that hasn't been mentioned. Anyway, maybe this isn't directly pertaining to this particular post, but it did get me thinking.
Many of the posts I read daily are about low pay, no pay companies. As well as the posts about lowered fees and somebody's taking these closings for this or that. I can't remember who posted in this thread about hardly being able to get companies to pay $125. I definately think these posts are helpful but I think the one thing we are forgetting is that obviously the "industry" is in the crapper. We are all fighting for work and trying to set fees to keep us afloat. But it WILL come back! The industry will rebound. Maybe not as fast as we'd like, but it will. Signing agents are still going to be needed for a long while. And when the industry comes back, companies will call. They will have no choice. It may or may not be as great as it was 5 years ago, but companies are not going to want to call 10-20 notaries to find the cheapest when they can't keep up with the orders coming in.
With that being said....We, as business owners, need to do what's best for us. Title companies and SS's are as well. When the time comes, these companies will have no choice but to pay what we charge because they will hopefully be too busy to continue to "shop" around. Our company does not work for SS's for many reasons posted on here. We have no problem getting what we ask for because that is what we deserve. Do some companies shop for cheaper, sure. And when that person takes a job for less than what we'd take, we get the next call at our fee. We won't bend. And hopefully soon you all won't have to either.
I guess what I'm saying is do what you need to do for "now." Hang in there. This is far from over. IMO Sorry for rambling =) Happy EOM for all!
Reply by Laura_V on 11/25/09 11:57am Msg #312196
Re: What is a good rate to set and keep?
Re: What is a good rate to set and keep? Posted by Marian_in_CA of CA on 11/25/09 5:47am Msg #312166
There really is no perfect rate for everyone. It all depends on multiple factors:
1. Your Experience and Knowledge 2. Your Business/Personal Expenses 3. The amount of competition in your area 4. The availability of work in your area 5. Your coverage area 6. Going through signing services or getting direct work 7. Individual circumstances of each signing assignment 8. Your office setup/technological capabilities 9. You marketing efforts 10. Your reputation.
What most of us CAN tell you, though, that $50-75 is generally way too low for anyone, on average, to conceivably accept in order to make a profit. That doesn't mean we can't occasionally accept it. But to make that a "standard rate" may make it difficult to be successful as a business person.
Now, personally... I don't really care if someone charges $65 because that's what they were told they'd be paid. That's their own business decision. I don't really understand how one could make a profit and run their business at that amount... but I won't chastise anyone for doing it. I also will not accept a signing service that tells me, "We pay $65 for this job and that's it." Well, my answer is usually the same, "I appreciate your thinking of me, but I won't be available to take that appointment."
I've taken lower paying loan signing jobs before (though never under $75), especially for ones that were super convenient or easy, but they are the rare exception rather than the rule. It meant my expenses for the job were much lower, and I could accept a lower fee and still maintain the profit margin I need to remain in business. I could not do that all the time, though. If I did, I'd be losing money and this would just be a really expensive hobby.
They key to all of it is to do a LOT of research and planning. You need to have a solid grasp of your expenses and the cost of a loan signing. Then you have to incorporate your profit margin and price yourself accordingly in order to remain competitive in your market. And that includes doing research on the other notaries in your area who offer this service.
One NSA might be able to easily charge and receive $150 a job, whereas another might find that $100 is difficult, if not impossible to get. Still others can't seem to get more than $85-$90, especially those who live in urban areas that are saturated with notaries. The good part about that, often enough, is that jobs will also be really close by, so expenses are often lower.
This was true when I live in the San Fernando Valley of Los Angeles. Most of my appointments were within 5 miles of my home, often much less. I had to charge less because there would be another notary, literally, right around the corner that would also do it. But, in that instance, it worked okay because my expenses were lower.
Now that I live in a more "rural" area of sorts, the jobs I get calls for are much more widespread, often 10-30 miles away or more. That's time, mileage and all of the associated expenses that increase what I have to charge. What I could have charged $95 for last year now often needs to be quoted $110-$150 or more simply because I'm now in an area where it's necessary. And, I'm in the SAME county... just 90 miles north. But those 90 miles have a significant impact on my expenses. Signing services, especially, have trouble grasping this idea for some reason.
Even notaries in the same area will have different expenses. One notary may need to pay for childcare in order to make appointments at certain times, when another doesn't have that expense. Another notary might feel the need to charge $1 a page for fax backs because they stand at a manual fax machine... where another notary has a nice quick sheet fed scanner that scans the docs within moments and sends the fax via email to a email fax service.
Also, notaries must take in to account the simple cost of being a notary. Notaries in California, for example, will have a higher average cost on this than many other states. It costs us a TON of money just to maintain our commissions. That money has to come from somewhere. So, notaries in California would logically be charging more than others. And yet...many of them don't.
I've always said... and I will continue to do so:
If you don't have a business plan and you can't recite off the top of your head the general average cost of a loan signing in a given area as well as the profit margin you need... you aren't ready to be taking work.
Example: Today I was asked to do a signing in California City, which is an hour's drive away. Now, on a map, it looks closer but what most people don't realize is that I have Edwards Air Force Base in the way, and the only way to get to California City is by driving around the base. And, for those of you familiar with the Mojave Desert... that's kind of a big area.
So, I'm looking at two hours in my car. plus signing time. Signing services get really upset when I tell them my minimum price for going out to Cal City is $175. They just don't get it. Now, I know there are other notaries in the area that would charge less to go out there. I don't mind if somebody else take the job $80... go right ahead. But... after you factor in mileage, gas, time, printing, and everything else... where's the profit? What's the point of taking the job?
Reply by Laura_V on 1/5/10 6:34pm Msg #316828
A perspective on our business Posted by JanetK_CA 1/5/10
I'm going to take a risk of being slammed for being negative, but I've been wanting to comment on a certain attitude about our business for some time in the interest of maintaining some perspective.
Lately, I've seen lots of people referring to the "slowdown" or "slump" in our business and I think this is possibly misleading and potentially harmful for long-term planning for those who haven't been around for long. I don't consider myself an expert nor do I have time to research this or elaborate on this, but others will probably chime in their 2 cents.
It seems to me that, to a large extent, our business is driven by interest rates, especially where refi's are concerned. The lower the interest rates, the more attractive it is for borrowers to refinance. For some time now, we have seen historically low interest rates. This also makes it more attractive for people to buy homes, impacting purchase deals, as well. But at some time, it is as inevitable as all business cycles are, that rates will eventually start going back up.
To oversimplify a bit, the "refi-mania" that caused the boom in the loan signing business in the early part of the last decade (sounds weird to say that...Smile) was the aberration, NOT the norm! When people here talk about things getting back to "normal", I suspect that they sometimes have things backwards. What we are calling a slowdown may really be more like getting back to normal. Unless someone is moving or getting out of an ARM, they don't have much incentive to refinance again. Add to that that the numbers of signing agents (competing for a smaller volume of work) has increased - sometimes to a great extent, even after considering attrition - and it looks like current conditions may be closer to the new "normal" than the times we look back on with fondness... Wink
It also seems like more and more of our colleagues here are pursuing this as a part time activity. So the business has changed. I just think this is something that we all - especially newer people - need to keep in mind when setting long term plans for ourselves and our businesses. This will vary by market and by individual (we all have different needs and skills), but I believe that those who see the big picture and plan accordingly will be much better off in the future.
Reply by Laura_V on 1/12/10 10:05am Msg #317707
Post by Les CO re the current state and probable future of..
Post by Les CO re the current state and probable future of our industry.
A long response to those that replied to my "shooting" post Posted by Les_CO of CO on 1/11/10 10:52pm Msg #317686
Just in case you haven’t noticed….This business is changing! In the old days any Title Company wanting to do business nationwide, or just out of their area, had to find another Title Company, that would do a “Courtesy Closing,” for them, or find a ‘Mobile Notary Signing Agent’ to do the job. They did this through a Signing Service, or through their own efforts. The Title Companies arranging these signings themselves found it involved time, some personnel, equipment, and TRUST. Just acquiring and maintaining a “Notary Data Base” was/is a daunting task. Then there was the scheduling, notification’s to the Notary/borrower, problem solving, follow-up, and doing all the things necessary to close. This all takes time and personnel. No one works for free. (Except maybe some NSA’s). These ‘signings’ were managed by the large-to-medium sized Title Companies “in house.” They had the personnel, equipment and/or the income/cash flow to accomplish the task and pay the costs. They STILL got their “closing fee/escrow fee” (say $350 to $500, plus costs) along with their other fees for title insurance, endorsements, etc. They simply added to the closing costs, (usually on the HUD) a ‘remote closing” or “notary fee” of whatever the NSA charged, which the borrower paid. The smaller Title Companies that did say 1-to-4 out-of-area closings a day couldn’t afford the personnel to do these ‘remote closings’ in house, so they mostly used a Signing Service.
I believe that it was First American that started to change this scenario. Someone at First American realized that some of these SS’s were making a pretty good profit on what they do, so perhaps they (First American) should start their own in-house SS, and look to it as a profit center? They did! Hence… FASS! First American took the Notaries off the HUD and paid FASS, and FASS paid the Notaries the absolute minimum they could, keeping the difference as profit. Then other low-ball companies like Nations Direct sprung up, with the NNA churning out thousands of new, supposed NSA’s on a weekly basis there was plenty of fodder to choose from. Nations Direct pays $40 to $50 per signing. Unless it’s an emergency at the EOM, or the signing is very rural, the: “They met my fee.” means you work cheap! Or you’re being disingenuous. Nations Direct will NOT pay MORE than they charge, and they will not schedule a job at a loss. They simply turn it back to the Title Company. (In the “service” business, you get what you pay for!) This makes the ‘escrow officers’ at Title scream, but the escrow officers (closers) still aren’t…the Boss! (Or the accountant!)
Seeing that this low-ball tactic works, some of the struggling Title Companies, say “Why don’t WE too use these ‘remote signings’ as a “profit center?” Let’s take the Notaries off the HUD, bundle their fees into our bundled services, closing fees, pay them less keeping the difference? It WORKS! No more pay the Notary $150-$200, recognized on the HUD. Now it’s pay them $100 (or less) and keep the difference.
The little guys still can’t afford to pay the overhead to have an in-house ‘remote closing dept.’ so many still use a SS. But if you haven’t noticed lately very few SS’s are listed ‘On the HUD.’ Because they (Title) like to pay out of their ‘operating’ account, and monthly. Less paperwork, and Title still can make a little extra something from each ‘remote signing.’ This is why these undercapitalized SS’s are now trying to pay after they get paid, 60 to 120 days out, using YOUR money as working capital.
I once thought/said that “As long as there were Title Companies that do not have a ‘brick and mortar’ presents in a State they do business in, they will need us.” Us being… PROFESSIONAL Notary’s… specializing in doing ‘remote closings,’ just as they are done in a Title Companies office, but at the borrowers convenience.
I’ve changed my mind. I now think when interest rates tick up a bit, and things slow even more, there will be MORE cutting of fees paid to Notaries, and MORE, and MORE deadbeat SS’s. Until the work environment for our jobs becomes so poor, and risky, that the only ones left in this business will be the hopeful part-timers. The “Professional” NSA”s will be gone!
Yes, I know that there are millions of sub-prime ARM’s out there waiting to adjust, but until someone (in government?) finds a way to put (qualify) these people in 30 year fixed low rate loans, it’s not going to help us. And with our government borrowing hundreds of billions of dollars a month more than they take in, zero interest will not last. Interest rates will go up.
Yes…there still may be a need for the “Professional Notary Signing Agent.” If in the interterm things don’t get so ‘flakey’ that some elected official passes some law to regulate this business, either stopping it totally, or denying the unqualified from participating. Thereby ridding us of the unworthy, non-bondable, unregulated SS’s, and ignorant, unqualified notaries. Perhaps then, if we can get through it, we will again be paid by the borrower, a just fee, reflected on the HUD?
Maybe a few of us old timers will stick? I must admit that I am now a “Part- timer.” I’m old…Semi-retired…(as many of us on this board are) but I’m still knowledgeable, and professional in my duties. I also bring a lifetime of experience to completing ‘a signing,’ and I think I do it well. Yes, I ONLY work for those I trust and respect. I say “No!” to those that IMO are degrading/destroying our business, or the ones that are just thieves. Luckily for me, this job is a vocation…not a necessity.
Someone said in a recent post that we are really “In the driver’s seat!” I agree. We can’t individually effect the enormous changes in the credit/housing markets, but we CAN at least choose for whom we work! JMO!
Reply by Moneyman/TX on 12/4/10 1:11am Msg #363878
Better is not always cheaper & Cheaper is not always better
Originally Posted by Moneyman/TX of TX on 9/27/10 4:38am Msg #354256
This is a response to a notary advocating accepting low ball offers from SS or TC.
--------------- Npross, respectfully, I have to point out what I think may be some major flaws with your jeans theory. ( Msg #354241 )
{* $150 vrs $75 is a 50% discount -- a 20% discount would be $120}
You are assuming that both places: 1) have the exact same pair of jeans for sale at vastly different prices 40-50%+ difference in price* (and both will provide the same quality, comfort, level of 'service' and 'knowledge') 2) are in fact located next door to each other (so the travel is exactly the same) 3) and that both pair of jeans are one size fits all
A knowledgeable SA, with a high level of skills in multiple areas including, but not limited to, customer service, attention to detail, professionalism, willingness to see that the borrower(s) questions are answered to their satisfaction, the knowledge and people skills to ensure that their job performance has actually added to, rather than lowered, the borrower(s) overall opinion of the company they have chosen to trust with, what is for most people, the largest single monetary transaction they have ever or may ever make is one kind of SA.
That SA knows that what they bring to the table is worth what they are asking people to trade for the fee they are charging.
Women aren't willing to pay $2K+ for a real Prada bag because it will hold more than a brown paper bag one might find at a local grocery store checkout counter. There is something to be said for quality and reliability.
Now a notary that may show up 'when they get finished with the kids basketball game', show up in sweats, doesn't even bother to view any ID, shoves the papers in front of the borrower while impatiently holding the corner so they can yank it out and replace it with another one, all the while repeating "sign there” or "initial here", doesn't have the slightest clue what a HUD or TIL is, and couldn't explain the difference between an APR and a Note Rate when the borrower(s) asks so they say something like "you got 3 days to call your lender and have them tell you the difference, now sign here so I can get back to my kids pizza party". The kind of notary that is in such a hurry they miss signatures, don't ensure the borrower(s) even sign the docs properly or even at all, partly because they don't know what they are doing (lack of knowledge)and partly because they just don't give a rip. After all, it's only XX and that's beer money anyway (never mind that when all the true expenses are added up the signing cost them out of pocket XX-$5 or $10 and they realize this is their true profit after page 80 of the 150+ page doc set). The type of notary that when they rush out of the borrower(s) house the borrower(s) are literally thinking, "WTF have we done? This company (the lender) cannot be as good as we thought."
Now that notary, masquerading as a SA, doesn't know the first thing about being a SA, business or real profit margin. They are the ones stealing from their 'full time' employer using their computers, printers and paper to subsidize their "other" job. (I leave the morals question on that section alone) They have no idea what a professional fee for the truly important job of a SA should be. They think the $50-65 is awesome pay for only 30 minutes of work (oh yeah, they bought into that lie as well) Now THAT notary is worth less than the $5-10 "profit" they "earned".
The quality of dollar store furniture is a far cry from that of furniture from Ethan Allen. Again, there is a reason for the price difference between the two.
I learned a long time ago that in sales, you get what you ask for. If you ask for one price (normal fee) then quickly accept a 50% discount or worse offer that amount even before the buyer has said a word, you will get just what you ask for, the blue light special pay for your full service quality.
Travel to the X number of closings I would have to accept at the lower price to earn the same for the number of signings preformed at my regular fee not only add cost to my auto and other fees (been stated on the board many, many times over) but one other thing that I don't think I have every added is that quite literally the more time I place myself behind the wheel and on the road statistically increases my chances for accidents or worse. Former life insurance agent thoughts seeping in a bit. Yeah, I know, some will think, that's just crazy, tell that to the guy or gal you read about in this morning's local paper that died in an auto accident yesterday. I'm sure they too thought they would make it home as well.
As for me, I turn down the bargain hunters which has literally opened up times that I have accepted other professional offers that I would not have been able to had I been answering my phone as if was the Blue Bat signal sale phone. I would have had to accept anywhere from 5-6 bargain basement offers to make (profit) what I did by knowing that what I offer is worth what I charge. After all, the borrower is STILL paying the same amount if I go or if the less than 'chatty Cathy' in sweats shows up.
I'm not saying that my description of the notary above is a description of all people that accept the lower fees. I am saying that some of these middle man companies couldn't care less if it were as long as they accept the low fee and they make their $100-$150 for making a phone call and sending a few emails.
Defiantly, everyone has to run their own business their own way. I guess my issue is that anyone that tells me they are making true profit accepting the $50-65 signings is not truly adding all the true costs in the equation and some have even been on this board touting the "great" revenue of the $50/signing and don't understand others that say they don't make any profit on the $50/signings. Only to expose themselves later on in the thread as a thief that is stealing from their "day job" because they are using others computers, paper, printers, toner, and other material. Or that she bragged about the great pay of 6 or 7 of them in one day, but forgot to acknowledge that they were all in one office 2 miles from her house and all she did was show up, the docs were already printed and several of them were back to back. Yet she was trying to convince others that they should accept these offers even if they had to travel to 6 or 7 different homes in several different counties because they could make a profit.
I'm not saying you are doing this, but for the ones that have done just that while trying to convince others they should be accepting these ridiculously insulting offers, get real! Anyone could make "good" money if they were stealing everything necessary to work this business on a daily basis. Duh!
Times are tough, but if you think consistently lower your fees is the answer, let’s ask some of the mom & pop businesses that Wal-Mart put out of business with that strategy how that worked out for them. Maybe we could even leave some of our business cards at their checkout counter......on second thought, probably not.
Reply by Lee/AR on 4/12/10 8:16am Msg #331310
You are an Independent Contractor...not an employee...
So drop the employee mentality. It's your business and you must include and calculate every one of your expenses before you can quote a fee that includes materials, your time/labor and PROFIT. And review these on a regular basis. If what they 'offer' is not sufficient, negotiate! If they cannot meet your fee, turn it down! Many seem to look at this as 'extra' income and fail to understand that their 'regular income' is subsidizing the 'extra'....for a net loss. If tempted to accept a lower fee than your homework tells you is profitable for you, ask yourself this question: Is a bank my favorite charity?
Reply by BrendaTx on 6/2/12 9:03am Msg #422444
Buddy's Lessons - For New Notaries 101
ADDING TO #33325
To all the Newbee's Posted by Buddy Young of CA on 6/2/12 12:01am Msg #422437 The reason seasoned notaries get a little put out by newbee's questions is that we hear these questions on a regular basis.
1. How do I get work? 2. Give me your client list? 3. How do I become a signing agent? 4. How much do I charge? 5. Can you set up my business for me? 6. How soon can I expect to make a 6 figure income?
I'm only going to say this once and all newbee's questions are going to be directed to this message.
The only advice I recieved was "sign up on a place called notary rotary" you've done that so you've taken the first step to building a business.
1. Read message 33325
2. Write a profile here on notary rotary.
3. Familarize yourself with loan documents. You can do this by becoming certified. There are several places online who offer these classes and certification. Experienced Notaries don't need to be certified because they know loan docs inside and out.
4. Order business cards here on notary rotary. They have very high quality cards at a reasonable price.
5. Pass out your business cards to all the real estate offices, banks and title companies in your area.
6. Go to signing central and sign up with all the 3 star and above rated companies. This will take weeks.
7. Reread message 33325
8. Go to the begining and read everything written on this forum. You will get a wealth of information.
9. Building a business will probably take at least a year, so in the meantime move back in with your parents.
10. By the time you build your business you will be antediluvian, and suffer from dotage.
11. Reread message 33325.
Any seasoned notary feel free to add anything I left out.
Buddy
Reply by bygrace/PA on 6/21/12 6:33pm Msg #424283
SS&TC Research Our Industry-We are Certified for God's Sake
SS & TC Research Our Industry-Your Certified for God's Sake Posted by bygrace/PA of PA on 6/21/12 4:01pm Msg #424262
I agree with Buddy all the way. I am a CNSA/TEA (LLC) and I also have another LLC as a Business Consultant.
Let me offer this piece of information in Industry Analysis by Sharon Olsten author of Modern Competitive Analysis:
By lowering prices just a little the business can increase its market, thus increase its own profits. The business may well believe that it cut prices in this way without upsetting the overall industry but, if enough businesses (thats you CNSA) yield/submit to this temptation (behavior), the market price willl drift down and the industry will be threatened (e.g. lowball fees offered to most of us "Certified" Notary Professional). Intense (rivalry) amongst firms/companies (CNSA/TEA's vs CNSA/TEAs) in an industry reduces "average profitability"
Total profits in an industry are greater with coordination than without (aka the CNSA/TEA collective consciousness)
In closing, Let's not forget about Geographical Location, Costs of Living, Cost of Supplies/Material, CEU's, Gas costs, Safety of the Notary (especially late night signings) etc. LS Prices/fee charges, $$$ Premium Fee Charges for Late night signings are especially appropriate for (our---not their) Profession.
Keep in mind that a fee in Wyoming for CNSA's (will not) work for say a NY CNSA's. It is for the Professional who is "Certified"--->that's right your not just any Notary.... to know their Industry and worth and set fees accordingly.
***SS, TC etc....just need to do a little more homework on their end about our industry.....wouldn't you say----btw, this last remark only applies to the SS, TC, etc companies who has succeeded and try to continue to drive down our CNSA/TEA Market with low fee assignments in order to eat like fat rats!! (You know who you are....even if you do show up in this forum as a trojan horse bashing other CNSA's like a spoiled brat)
I too have been successful with re-negotiating SS,TC Contracts to "match my company fee schedule" per my LLC Operating Agreement. I know my worth and for all the SS, TC companies that continue to pay me well .....my company thank you and respects you as well because of it. As any customer service department would have it....I'll keep applying those discounts to your company for repeat business. I love it, when the relationship works!!!!!....Blessings All
Reply by bygrace/PA on 6/21/12 6:37pm Msg #424285
Decide if you are a Checker, Poker or Chess Player
Thanks LEE/AR and thanks for the #33325 thread(just read it)....I don't know what's worst....being offered lowball fees by a SS, TC etc company or reading some of these threads where CNSA verbally wrestles another CNSA.... lets keep our eyes on the "end game". You must really "mind your business".
You must decide that you are either one of these 3 types (a Checkers player, Poker player or a Chess player)
If you said Chess Player....Congratulations...you read the rules to Chess and more importantly you can "apply" the knowledge(not all can apply what they learn)....you are truly a Professional.
Reply by SheilaSJCA on 8/23/12 11:07am Msg #431661
Tipsabout using signing central and NR forum from NJDIVA
Best move you could have made for yourself and your business Posted by NJDiva of NJ on 8/23/12 10:29am Msg #431657
We are very fortunate to have this site. I've learned so much here and continue to learn on a daily basis. I remember as a kid my grandfather always saying "you learn something new everyday." He's absolutely right when it comes to this forum especially.
Though some of us here tend to come off as ruff and gruff, just know that many of the "long timers" here didn't have this forum and had to work hard and learn through trials and tribulations what most newbies are lucky enough to be handed on a silver platter.
The orange search button is your best friend. Before posting, perform due diligence. Investigate whether or not it's already been answered. It's very frustrating (especially to many longtimers that have provided the answers over, and over, and over...you get it) when once a week or so the same exact question is asked over and over...you get it...lol
A sense of entitlement has no place here. Saks 5th Avenue would not go to Neiman Marcus to ask how to start/run their business, where to get clients or what they should charge for their products (services). Keep in mind that this is a very competitive business you have made a choice to undertake. Besides, all those answers can be found with the Orange Search button. Very importantly do not undercut or defame this industry by pricing yourself so low as not to be able to maintain a viable business. Very rarely will I go below $XXX. Don't believe these lowballing companies (thieves) that try to tell you it's too much. They just want to make as much off you as possible. If you're gullible, ignorant, desperate enough to do so, then don't waste your time and don't ruin this industry. It's getting worse and worse with these companies. If they don't want to raise their prices, why should we have to give them part of OUR pay.
Go to the Signing Central tab. That's where you'll find companies. Try to stay away from the companies that are 3 1/2 stars or lower. I don't consciously work for anything under 4 stars. The others have low ratings FOR A REASON! Give them the benefit of a doubt and chances are you'll get...well, um, ugh, (sc******d). And if you do, by all means PLEASE come on and let us know. Though you may get slammed, many will appreciate you having to learn the lesson rather than them. After all, you've already been forewarned.
Okay, okay, so I probably offered WAY more info than you inquired about, but many times people come on and end up getting slammed. Just trying to deter you from getting your feelings hurt right off the bat.
Please know that when I say YOU, it is meant in the third person to everyone new to Notary Rotary. It is nothing personal to the poster.
Welcome to you and wishing you much success in the business.
Warmly, Cheryl
Reply by BrendaTx on 9/27/12 10:15pm Msg #436222
Sequence of events - Lender to NSA by Deborah Breedlove
Adding to #33325 - Great stuff!
Re: Quick closing 123 Posted by Deborah Breedlove of KS on 9/27/12 6:40pm Msg #436193 Sequence of events - lender sends docs to title, title prepares Hud and affadavits, title sends Hud back to lender for approval, title waits for Hud approval, title waits and waits and waits some more, title finally gets Hud approval, title sends docs to NSA. If a SS is involved, title sends docs to SS, then SS sends docs to NSA. Sometimes there is a problem along the way and they have to start the process over. Sometimes the docs are ready to go, but are just waiting to be emailed or uploaded.
Reply by Janice Stephens on 10/19/12 12:36pm Msg #439211
Re: Almost everything you need to know to become successful
Does anyone have updated information? I've been to the web sites listed and most of them cannot be located. - Thanks
Reply by BrendaTx on 10/20/12 1:46pm Msg #439375
Don't work for Low Ball, No Pay Companies
Keywords: Good companies; finding companies to work for; finding work; find work; find clients; getting started; newbies; new notaries.
ORIGINALLY POSTED BY: 101livescan on 10/20/12 - Adding to Msg #33325
Surviving Signings, Not working for Low Ball, No Pay Co's
Posted by 101livescan of CA on 10/20/12 8:33am Msg #439343 This is for new people on this board. You can go to Signing Central and sort the companies by star rating. The companies with 3.5 to 5 stars are the only companies any of us should be working for.
Three star are a huge gamble. Two, one and less, don't even go there. Some of these companies aren't even around any more, but listed just in case they rise from their graves!
You never know when they will resurrect themselves. Hopefully they've moved on to their original gigs, whatever those were.
Now, if you can just remember not to accept work from the 1-3 star companies. There are so many, how do you track them all.
What do you think of the policy of asking them, how many stars do you have on NR, and that just might be illuminating. Otherwise you gotta have a pretty good memory to recall all the companies out there which do not pay, never intend to pay, and outright out fox new notaries.
I had a call from Firma Signing Solutions yesterday. My first clue I shouldn't take the assignment: Low fee, $75 for edocs. I immediately informed the scheduler that is too little compensation for the scope of work, only half of what I normally get for signings. She hung up.
Got back to my smartphone and browsed them on NR: 2-star company! Shoulda known, right?
These companies have negotiated low fees with their clients to get the work, but then keep most of fee for themslves and try to get notaries to work for peanuts. As you know, some of them never pay up, or deduct partial fees if you make one misstep.
It's just that simple. Hope this helps you all in strategizing about your business model and how to stay in business by getting the better paying job$.
How an awesome day. Heading out for four closings this morning, then wine tasting fund raising at the SB Harbor this afternoon. At last, it's cooler here on the central coast.
I have been contacted several times to provide an updated link to a free loan document package because the one I put into the #33325 thread seven years ago quit working.
Over the years I have developed ESP and uncanny internet research techniques to find such items....here is how I located the link above..it was very hard. I went to google.com and put in the search term >sample documents mortgage< The link appeared on the first page.
If this link is broken in the next decade - try google.com!
[I find it quite amusing that folks get rather indignant about dead links and will take the time to write the poster of such information with a reprimand and request for a fresh link rather than look to themselves to find answers.]
Reply by HisHughness on 11/25/12 4:23pm Msg #444571
Re: Sample Loan Document Package
I use Internet Explorer. I would appreciate if, instead of just assuming that everybody knows what you are talking about, you would post directions on how to get to google.
Reply by BrendaTx on 11/25/12 7:45pm Msg #444574
LOL~! n/m
Reply by BrendaTx on 2/4/13 6:32am Msg #453869
Key Tools for Maximizing NSA Success (adding to 33325)
[[[[Read the entire thread that begins with Msg #453753]]]]
Posted by 101livescan of CA on 2/3/13 10:02am Msg #453753 Five-star profile here with contact information to attract signing opportunities Answer your phone (for only 4 and 5 star companies) Get confirmation via email and confirm with borrower before printing Have the latest and greatest technology in smart phone, PC, printer, scanner, and GPS Knowledgeable, accurate, competent, prompt, professional and wear business attire only and be neat and clean. You might get asked to remove your shoes..be prepared and do it... Be kind, considerate and pleasant Stay focused on the task Review packages before you leave the signing table, as well as looking at every page for completed signatures, initials and that the names are signed as they appear on the documents. Report back to vendor on successful completion or (?) ASAP Drop the package back to TC or lender ASAP.
Don't work for losers and make sure you check out any new companies on SC.
This at least works for me.
Please feel free to add to this list if you care to.
Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain
