Posted by ALG Solutions - Lucia Giamanco on 4/30/05 9:00am
Msg #35014
Closing Issue!
Good Afternoon everyone,
We are a closing company and last month we had our first major issue with one of our notaries, what happened was that when I called her to schedule a closing the closing was suppose to take place part in Cocoa Beach and then she was suppose to come to Orlando (which is quite a drive) to sign with the husband! I asked her what the fee would be for her coming to Orlando and she said $225, I checked with the title company and they gave me the OK to schedule it.
Our policy is that whever there are ANY changes to a closing, ANY type of changes, that we are notified by our closer right away, she didn't do that and the next day we found our that she never came to Orlando, that the loan officer got the husband to come in Merrit Island which is a lot closer to Cocoa Beach than Orlando and they signed everything.
So, she didn't make the trip after all, but she still wants to be paid the $225?!!?!? that fee was agreed when she was suppose to make the trip and it included the travel time and miles, now that she didn't make the trip ...why would we pay her that fee!?!??!
Here are the facts:
1. She did not make the trip
2. She didn't let us know in the day of the closing that she will NOT make the trip
3. She was suppose to call us (According to our policy) to let us know if it closed or not, and she didn't, we called her the next day and then is when she told us that she never came to Orlando
What exactly are we suppose to do here?
If anyone know we would greately appreciate it.
Thank you,
Alexandra
| Reply by sue on 4/30/05 9:05am
Msg #35015
you are to pay her. Did the loan close? Was it correct? That is what you pay her for. Are you taking less money from your client? If she worked something out that was acceptable to the borrowers then there should be no problem. Would you be willing to pay additional if the loan was a 45 minute loan and the borrowers took 2 hours to sign? Would you be willing to pay additional if the LO didn't do his job and the notary took her time up by allowing the borrowers to call the LO to go over details that should have been taken care of before the notary's arrival? If you don't like what she did, don't hire her again but pay her for the loan package she correctly (I am assuming) completed.
| Reply by ALG Solutions - Lucia Giamanco on 4/30/05 9:16am
Msg #35017
Hi Sue,
Here is the issue we are having here: We pay our closers $125 for one closing and we are very well aware of the fact that not all closing are the same or take the same amount of time. For us to charge the title company extra for something that didn't happen is unethical. We charged the title company for a double closing (two - trip closing) which we usually pay $175, so for her to not aknowledge that we think it is unprofessional. She knew she was not going to come to Orlando for the closing shortly after she spoke with the loan officer, but she did not inform us of that fact until the next day which is against our policy.
She did a two trip closing for us which we pay $175, the fact that she is trying to charge us for something she didn't do, and that is coming to Orlando to sign at the Title Company with the husband is not our fault.
Tx,
Lucia
| Reply by BrendaTX on 4/30/05 11:48am
Msg #35043
I agree with sue. You should pay her what you agreed on.
If I were the notary, I would have adjusted the fee myself if it was justified. I adjust my fees downward frequently post signing, if such as this happens.
If the notary does not adjust the fee herself, and you are unhappy about that just don't use her again.
If an SS/Title company/lender does not treat me fairly, that's what I do...I just don't accept further jobs.
| Reply by ssnotary on 4/30/05 9:44am
Msg #35021
If the details you stated are indeed true, clearly her fee should be adjusted. Unfortunately she appears to be dishonest, which is sad for other notaries who are prompt and honest. I also would suggest never using this notary in the future. However with this said, the notary most likely has a version of events as well. Tough spot!
| Reply by ALG Solutions - Lucia Giamanco on 4/30/05 9:50am
Msg #35023
Well, we already decided not tu use her anymore not just because of this issue but she was ver unprofessional with one other closing that we used her for, and another signing agency also had issues with her as well.
We are indeed very disappointed mostly because when I called her to ask if she was available for this closing I also asked her what her fee for coming to Orlando was and she paused to think about it and the told me $225, and now she is trying to change that by saying that her company fee for that was $225, which was not what she said when we scheduled it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lucia
| Reply by ssnotary on 4/30/05 10:15am
Msg #35029
I'm sorry, this indeed is unfortunate and clearly continues to trouble you. Try to put it aside and move on, don't allow this to ruin you days.
| Reply by Mysti_FL on 4/30/05 11:06am
Msg #35035
Re: Thank you for posting
Let me start by thanking you for posting your information here.
For me, reading about the bad stuff that happens is almost better than hearing about the good. I use that to my advantage as a form of self-training/education. I certainly don't see the consequences of what I do (or don't do) unless someone tells me. Without feedback, I don't perform as well as I might.....of course, this is just me. It also allows me to "hear both sides of the story". If anyone gets on here to complain about you as an agency, I have some place to refer for the "complete" story, which again, helps me.
With that said, my opinion is that you are completely within your rights to adjust the fee. The confirmation was for 3 services: signing here, signing there and travel. If one of the services(travel) was not included, then you should pay for only two services regardless of what you negotiated with lender or whomever. Since the signings did take place, I would either adjust travel only (assuming they had mentioned a travel amount) or at least deduct the lesser amount possible.
Bottom line: If I ever open an Agency, I will be sure and give all of my notaries feedback (yes, I come from the Corporate world!!! LOL)
Mysti
| Reply by Anonymous on 4/30/05 11:39am
Msg #35039
Hi Alexandra, Sorry for your problem. It is people like her that give notaries a bad name. I live in Brevard county and do signings all the time. If you get any i my area, please let me know. My email address is [e-mail address] Thank you and sorry for your problems. Jimmy
| Reply by Anonymous on 4/30/05 11:39am
Msg #35040
Hi Alexandra, Sorry for your problem. It is people like her that give notaries a bad name. I live in Brevard county and do signings all the time. If you get any i my area, please let me know. My email address is [e-mail address] Thank you and sorry for your problems. Jimmy
| Reply by ALG Solutions - Lucia Giamanco on 4/30/05 11:47am
Msg #35042
Thank you for your reply, if you'd like you can sign up with us at:
http://www.algsolutions.com/becomeapartner.html
Have a great day!
Alexandra
| Reply by Todd on 4/30/05 11:52am
Msg #35044
Did the confirmation state that the "Fee" was based on going to Orlando also? If not, you have to pay her.
Aren't you supposed to be keeping in contact with the Lender with any changes? What are you getting paid for?
Why are you coming on this board and posting this type of information? You don't sound like you have any business sense.
| Reply by ALG Solutions - Lucia Giamanco on 4/30/05 12:02pm
Msg #35047
Todd,
1. The confirmation email stated very clearely that she was going to be paid that fee because of the travel/mileage that she was suppose to have.
2. We keep in contact directly with the Title Company in this case, in other cases we do keep in touch with the lender also, depending on who sent us the order for the closing.
3. She did not annouce the title company that she was not going to come to Orlando nor us, our policy is that WE need to be notified directly if ANY changes occur with our closings. She did not notify anyone untill the next day when we had to call her back to find out what happened with that closing, we had to do that twice because she failed to call us and let us know what was going on.
5. I don't think that my business sense is the problem here.
Our company has specific policies and in ALL of our confirmation emails that is stated very clearely.
Alexandra
4.
| Reply by Todd on 4/30/05 12:10pm
Msg #35051
Well, if.... "Our company has specific policies and ALL of our confirmation emails that is stated very clearley". {end of quote} Why are you coming on here asking what you should do?
I find your business sense questionable.
| Reply by ALG Solutions - Lucia Giamanco on 4/30/05 12:14pm
Msg #35054
The ONLY reason I posted our issue FYI, was because I wanted to know if anyone has come accross something like this before!
As far as what we did, we already adjusted her fee based on the service that she actually provided!
If you're not interested in my posting stop replying! and leave my business sense alone, you sound like a 2nd grader!!!!! picking on what is NOT the issue here!!!!!
Alexandra
| Reply by CarolynCO on 4/30/05 12:28pm
Msg #35060
As someone else stated, I guess I also have too much corporate world in me as well. IMO, the notary is trying to double-dip -- charging for travel that was agreed upon and the trip was never made.
As for why the SS is posting here -- they have just as much right to post and make a complaint as we, as SAs, do when we complain about SSs. I personally find nothing questionable about this SSs business sense. What I do find questionable are the ethics of the notary.
| Reply by ERNA_CA on 4/30/05 12:41pm
Msg #35067
Re: Closing Issue! I agree with Carol, works bouth ways nm
| Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/30/05 1:32pm
Msg #35086
You shouldl have called me to start with! LOL
OK - was the $225 to include the signing that was done in Cocoa Beach as well as the Orlando signing, or was the $225 just for the Orlando signing?
If it was, then the ethical and moral thing for her to have done would be to call you and say "The husband is coming to Merritt Island and my fee for that is........." so it could be adjusted accordingly.
Just for curiosity was her initials HZ?
| Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/30/05 1:42pm
Msg #35091
Re: Closing Issue! - PS
I live in Brevard county, and have been in this business for several years.
I am also a certified notary instructor, and I teach those classes that notaries in Fl have to take to get their commission, so I am familiar with, and adhere to, all Fl notary laws.
You can click on my link for my information.
| Reply by ALG Solutions - Lucia Giamanco on 4/30/05 1:43pm
Msg #35094
Re: Closing Issue! - PS
Thank you for letting me know,
Alexandra
| Reply by ALG Solutions - Lucia Giamanco on 4/30/05 1:42pm
Msg #35092
Re: Closing Issue! for Sylvia_FL
Hi,
The $225 fee was because she had to travel to Orlando, when I asked her how much she would charhe for coming that was what she told me, we usually pay $125 for one closing and $175 for two trip closing.
She was suppose to call me directly and tell me she was NOT going to come to Orlando and revise her fee, which she did not! Our policy states very clearely in all of our confirmation emails that the closer has to call us with any changes.....which she didn't!!!
No, the initials are different.
Alexandra
| Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/30/05 2:02pm
Msg #35104
Re: Closing Issue! for Sylvia_FL
So - the $225 was to cover both trips?
This, was not really enough to start with (if she had gone to Orlando), it is about 60 miles from Cocoa Beach to Orlando, that is a 120 mile round trip. But as she had agreed to $225 then it is her problem if she hadn't charged enough to go to Orlando.
Merritt Island is about 22 miles from Cocoa Beach, so about a 44 mile RT there.
So, if it is $125 for the one signing, a second one , with that mileage should have been around $60, so for the two $185 would have been a fair fee.
Now, depending what you put on your confirmation would determine if she can legitimately claim the full $225. Did you make it plain on your confirmation that the $225 was including a trip fee to Orlando? If you had sent a confirmation for $225 for the signing without stipulating the trip to Orlando, then you may have a problem paying less, as it is what is in writing that counts.
But, she definitely acted unprofessionally and should only be getting paid for going to Cocoa Beach and Merritt Island and not Cocoa Beach and Orlando.
| Reply by ALG Solutions - Lucia Giamanco on 4/30/05 3:07pm
Msg #35117
Re: Closing Issue! for Sylvia_FL
Well, I asked her when I called her what her fee was going to be for that and that is what she told me.
The original confirmation that had all the Title Company info in it (because she was suppose to go there at their office to sign with the husband) had the agreed fee of $225.
When she knew that she was not going to come there she was suppose to let me know so I can let the Title company know and adjust the fee.
Alexandra
| Reply by Lee/AR on 4/30/05 3:20pm
Msg #35119
You do not state all time frames.
The SA set the time aside for this... perhaps turning down other closings. Someone other than SA 'changes' things (perhaps at 59th min. of the 11th hour; perhaps not, but a factor)... SA accomodates the change... Do you know how long the first half took? "Time" could have been a very important factor. Why would/did the LO want/get the change? I would guess that it was OK or very important to the Borrower...or he wouldn't have done it! Are you going to bill the Title company any less? Only SA fault I can actually determine here is the failure to call you... but time could have been a factor here, too. Is someone there at midnight??
| Reply by ALG Solutions - Lucia Giamanco on 4/30/05 3:35pm
Msg #35124
Re: You do not state all time frames.
We could NOT charge the Title Company more because she never make it there. It would have been unethical for us to do something like that!
The Title Company was expecting her there! that was where the closing with the husband was suppose to take place!
The time was in the afternoon, and she was very well aware of it, at the same time not every single closig takes the same amount of time. She never kept in touch with any of us, not us, not the title company, we and the title company are not going to police our closers, she should have called one of us and let us know what was going to happen, she only spoke with the loan officer who didn't call anyone to tell anything either, but since she ws hired by us and we only dealt with the Title Company (in this case) she was suppose to get in touch with us and let us know what was happening!
Alexandra
| Reply by Lee/AR on 4/30/05 4:03pm
Msg #35128
Re: You do not state all time frames.
Take a deep breath! 3 more times. Sleep on it. When you are calm, less excited & able to 'discuss' this WITH HER (not here) in a reasonable manner, do so. For every story like yours, trust me, there's a notary who has a horror story, too. It goes with the turf. One thing to keep in mind, the LO has been working with the B for a long time to get to this point; B's have a tendency to think the LO knows ALL and is the last word on everything, after all-- s/he 'represents the bank'. I believe if you approach the notary in a reasonable (key word here is 'reasonable') manner, she will agree to reduce her fee (as time DOES NOT seem to be a factor.) What you need to accomplish is a 'meeting of the minds' WITHOUT banging your heads together. And you also need to listen to her side of the story with an open mind.
| Reply by BrendaTX on 4/30/05 7:44pm
Msg #35161
Lee, you are so correct...as usual. n/m
| Reply by Simone E. Lewis on 4/30/05 9:01pm
Msg #35169
Alexandra, do you have any documentation in your policy that you will deduct from the Notary’s fee if they do not call-in, if they change the signing location, they signed in black instead of blue, they didn’t fax-in… etc
You are so right, she did not follow instructions by not calling in. I see both side of the story and as Lee suggested sleep on it for the weekend. It is unfortunate and it is troubling you, but this is the nature of this business. Never take it for granted that they will do as you expect . That goes for all parties involved.
Silvia figured Merritt Island is about 22 miles from Cocoa Beach, so about a 44 mile RT difference of $40.00. Now it is up to you, do you want to be right or do you want to be stress about this decision to deduct her fees, if it was not written in your policy. I would pay and never rehire her again. Hopefully, the loan closed.
| Reply by Barry on 4/30/05 10:43pm
Msg #35187
Alexandra,
The key here is whether the husband was the one who re-arranged the schedule or the notary. If it was the husband, she should be entitled to the fee unless you had a written direction to her that any change of venue or time was to be approved for a renegotiated fee prior to the closing.
If the notary pulled a fast one contrary to your written directions, follow through with what is on the written direction for a penalty, if any is indicated, unless the notary crossed out that part, wrote "disagree" and initialed.
You have to cover yourself from the beginning to keep this type of thing from happening.
If you did not cover yourself on this one, learn from the mistake, correct for future signings, pay the notary the fee, and stay clear of that notary if you believe that notary acted in a deceitful manner.
I have a good relationship with all my accounts, and these situations are worked out from the beginning so there is no misunderstanding of each other, and I've maintained the same accounts for all the time I have been performing loan signings.
You may contact me at [e-mail address] if you have any signings in the Broward & Palm Beach county areas of FL. I work most of Broward, and the southern end of Palm Beach.
| Reply by John_NorCal on 4/30/05 11:42pm
Msg #35192
I have to agree with Alexandra. If a charge was quoted and agreed to for extra mileage, and that trip did not take place, that charge was not earned. The notary should expect to have her fee adjusted. Simple as that, it cuts both ways.
| Reply by Alexandra/ALG Solutions on 5/2/05 8:11am
Msg #35261
closing issue for Barry & Brenda
http://www.algsolutions.com/closingagreement.html
Good Morning,
The above link is on our website and it is our closing agreement.
In all the confirmation emails sent to her the fact that she was to contact the Title Company and let them know when will she arrive there was very clear, very clear was also that she was to call us with any changes. If she would have called us and told us that the husband was in Merrit Island and therefore she was not going to come to Orlando anymore we would have informed her of the change in fee right then and there, apparently she knew about this shortly after she took the order from us because the time for the closing was kept the same!
The Loan officer apparently was the one that managed to get the husband in Merrit Island, but we only deal with the loan officer if the closing order comes from the mortgage company, if it comes from the title company we only keep in touch with the title company. In this case we and the title company had no idea of what was going on! I usually try to get in touch with my closers before they go out there to make sure they got the E-Docs (in some cases they don't and I am forwarding my copy), and in this case I was calling her and got no answer several times, !!!!! I finally got a hold of her the next morning! me and the Title Company both, it was very agravating because we never had this happen before with any of our other closers.
Barry, as soon as we have something in that area we will call you,
Thank you,
Alexandra
| Reply by Linda on 5/2/05 2:08pm
Msg #35338
Re: closing issue for Barry & Brenda
There's always three sides to every story. Yours, there's and the truth.
Coming on here and posting does know one any good (JMHO).
Try to be reasonable and rational about this -- sounds like you are going off the deep end over this.
Just one of those lessons that we learn in life.
Like Sylvia said -- she didn't charge enough to being with.
Get a grip!
| Reply by Nicole_NCali on 5/2/05 4:29pm
Msg #35363
LO get desperate at end of month
Here is an aside, sometimes the LO is so desperate for the close, they will run inteference. I have had LO call me and try to pursuade me to divert away from the title co instructions. Just be aware of this in the future. Also, some LO will even try to divert the sa away from the ss for special attention, by offering the sa more money or direct business for all future loans.
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