Posted by Victoria/FL on 4/16/05 7:27am
Msg #32173

Did they think I wouldn't notice??

I just finished printing documents for a loan closing this morning...and lo and behold, it's for TWO loans, not one! Of course I left a message on the SS voice mail and sent them an email advising that my fee is more than the confirmation, but I know that I won't be able to reach anyone today to receive a new confirmation with the updated fee.

Do you think that the SS didn't know that it was for two loans, or were they trying to get a bargain by slipping in the HELOC all in one package (the pdf file came directly from the lender)?

In any event, I'm going to go to the closing and speak with the SS first thing Monday. Do I hold the loan package hostage if they don't agree to my new fee? Just kidding, I wouldn't do that.

Any advice or similar stories? How would you handle? By the way, it's a fairly new signing service and I've never done a loan with them before.

Reply by Roger/OH on 4/16/05 8:13am
Msg #32178

Packages some from the lender/TC, not the SS, so they often don't know if it's a piggyback.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/16/05 9:36am
Msg #32185

SS don't often know it is a piggy back (or a 1st and a 2nd) and you should have no problem getting paid - the SS will let title know that they need an extra fee for the 2nd loan.
Sometimes even title companies don't know until they get the paperwork to prepare the HUD.

Reply by Ernest_CT on 4/16/05 4:28pm
Msg #32236

Lest anyone think that you weren't kidding, ...

... Victoria wouldn't seriously think of holding onto the documents until she got a confirmation of an increased fee! Doing so would be illegal and unethical. Our first responsibility is to the laws of our state. (OK, somebody is going to argue that our ethics are our first responsibility. [sigh] You could successfully argue that. So sue me. [wry smile]) We're also responsible to the borrowers not to play silly games with their lives.

We can always blow the whistle on the signing service, if all else fails. But we've got to deliver the goods as we promised.

Reply by Victoria/FL on 4/16/05 8:48pm
Msg #32264

Re: Lest anyone think that you weren't kidding, ...

That's exactly why I put "Just kidding, I wouldnt' do that." I surely didn't want to get jumped on by the whole board!

Reply by Ted_MI on 4/16/05 9:03pm
Msg #32267

Re: Similar story? Well, to some extent

Victoria,

I was retained to handle a signing yesterday for a first and a second (at least that is how it was billed; it was a refinance and a HELOC). I am in the northern suburbs of Detroit. This was a considerable distance away, way out in the boonies!! That I was aware of.

I was told by the ss rep that the first was sixty pages and the second was thirty pages. Ahh as it turned out, unfortunately not!! I don't know what the breakdown was, but the entire package was 205 pages. And that is not counting the borrowers' package. And this was my first double. Whoopee!!

I was able to push the time back from six to seven to avoid most of the rush hour traffic. But I relied on mapquest to my peril and got somewhat lost. So the trip there was an hour and fifteen minutes long.

The husband was a good ole country boy (maybe an itinerant Texan, who knows?). But I tell you the wife came off initially as a real jerk, seemingly disposed to read everything, even though she had been advised of the cancellation period (in this case four days because of the Sunday). But I guess she came to her senses and even manifested a sense of humor now and then during the course of the signing.

I realized that if I did the notarizations and the entries in my journal I would never get out of there. But still the signing took two hours and fifteen minutes. And it wasn't like I was unfamiliar with the documents.

And the notarizations and the entires in my journal took an hour and fifteen minutes this morning!! And it wasn't like there were any distractions. There were just so many of them!!

Well, I guess the only plus to all this (other than all the experience I inadvertenly acquired) is that the signing service is reputable and does pay, I understand.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/16/05 10:17pm
Msg #32273

Re: Similar story? Well, to some extent

Ted,
It is never a good idea to do the notarizations later. (In Florida we have to do them at the signing).
Suppose you had done several signings, and on the way home were involved in an accident (not a bad one, but one that would prevent you from being able to notarize the docs later).
This could create a problem. The notarizations need to be done at the time of the signing.


Hope they paid well for a 1st and a 2nd.

Reply by Ted_MI on 4/17/05 7:27am
Msg #32301

Re: Sylvia

Sylvia,

Yes, I agree in principle. Normally I do them during the course of the signing. That way I don't have to worry about not getting around to it at a later time (or as you suggested getting involved in an auto accident).

Nope, the pay wasn't that great. I accepted it upon the representation that it was about ninety pages and also because I din't have anything scheduled that evening.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/17/05 7:30am
Msg #32302

Re: Sylvia

Don't you just hate it when they tell you it is only about 90 pages and it is double that!

Reply by Ted_MI on 4/17/05 7:43am
Msg #32304

Re: Sure do

Sylvia,

Sometimes I wonder whether the people at the signing services have any idea what they are talking about. Presumably you would think that they would have some experience working with these title companies and lenders and could be able basically to give you a decent ball park estimate (as to the size of the packets).

Sometimes I think they just throw out a number (or numbers) rather than just acknowledging that they really don't know.

By the way, I had done a single refinance for the same ss (and title company) several days earlier, but that only involved one borrower, so that made it quite a bit easier.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/17/05 8:14am
Msg #32306

Re: Sure do

No, the people at the signing services do not know the number of pages to a package.

When I call someone for a signing on most of the ones that come through me I can give the signer a good idea of the package - as they are usually Wells Fargo reverse mortgages, but when it is a different type of package I really can't tell them much only that it is a refi with a particular company. But I would never tell them something I didn't know. I work as a signing agent too, and so like to treat my signers the same way I like to be treated by the companes that hire me as a signing agent.

Reply by Margaret/Florida on 4/17/05 9:34am
Msg #32312

Re: Sure do

Thats exactly why I love working with title companies. All the title companies I work with tell me at the time they call how large the package is and if it turns out to be larger they have no problem paying extra for the larger package. I charge 35 for 1st loan and $15 for the second loan package. $50 will cover any size package I get

Reply by sue on 4/17/05 5:59pm
Msg #32362

Re: Sure do

same here except I don't ask them. I know my title company's clients so I know what's coming - I know who does Chase, I know who does H&R Block, Suntrust, Countrywide, Wilmington Finance, etc. After a while, you know the package. Naturally there are always some odd ones thrown in but 90%+ of the time I know what's coming.

Reply by Deborah Weikel on 4/18/05 5:15am
Msg #32392

Re: Sure do

Did I read this correctly? You charge $35 for the first loan and $15 for the second loan to a title company? That seems awfully low to me. Anyone else out there think this is very, very low?

Reply by BrendaTX on 4/18/05 5:42am
Msg #32393

Re: Sure do

eDocs prices.

Reply by HisHughness on 4/18/05 6:09am
Msg #32395

Re: Similar story? Well, to some extent

Sylvia notes:

***It is never a good idea to do the notarizations later. ***

There is no statute in Texas requiring the notarizations to be done at the table, although the paralegal who passes for the notary public legal department in the Office of the Secretary of State says that's the way it should be done.

My view: The entire signing agent approach was established to serve the convenience of the customer (and in the process put more cash in the pockets of lenders and TCs by virtue of generating more loans). With the certainty that a signing will run 3+ hours against the remote possibility that I might be involved in an accident that would impair my ability to complete notarizations, I'll come down on the side of not inconveniencing the borrower every time. I've delayed completing the notarizations only two or three times, but it was fully warranted in each instance. Of course, if there is a statute that addresses the issue, then the SA should adhere to the law.