Posted by Margaret/Florida on 4/18/05 5:32pm
Msg #32516

Email from signing agency re: New Fla Law Effect 5/1/05

Here is an email I got from NotaryPro

I already am doing this because I had heard that this was going to be a new law.


As you may already know, the State of Florida requires two witness signatures on every deed of conveyance they receive for recording. Starting May 1, 2005, the State of Florida will also require two witnesses on every MORTGAGE they receive for recording. Please keep this new law in mind when making signings at the end of April.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 4/18/05 6:41pm
Msg #32523

I do not believe this is accurate. I just called Notary Pro to validate the information and was told that it "is a requirement of a lender". However, when I read the exact message as posted by Notary Pro in their newsletter, I was told that it someone will have to get back to me about this.

Of course, it is too late right now to call our Count Clerk for verification, but trust me, I will be calling him immediately after my morning assignment to verify the accuracy of this statement.

Reply by Margaret/Florida on 4/18/05 6:52pm
Msg #32525

Thanks PAW, This is already a requirement for most of the lenders I deal with, so it won't effect me too much. But if this will be a requirement of the county clerk, then all Florida Notaries need to know. I searched the Florida Notary website with no answers.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 4/18/05 7:21pm
Msg #32526

There's only a couple of lenders that I am aware of that "require" it. Usually, when I am told that two witnesses are needed and I explain how the witness requirements are for deeds that convey property ownership and not for placing liens on existing property by their owners, they usually drop the "requirement".

Reply by Margaret/Florida on 4/18/05 7:31pm
Msg #32527

Do you do any for Nationwide Title and Appraisal (Citi-Bank) or Navy Federal Credit Union. Citi-Bank has Affidavit of No Leins and the Affidavit of Continuous Marriage and Mortgage that need 2 witnesses

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/18/05 7:46pm
Msg #32528

I do a lot for Navy Federal and have never had witnesses on a mortgage.

Reply by Mysti_FL on 4/18/05 10:54pm
Msg #32560

I also do Navy Federal and didn't have to worry about witnesses.
Mysti

Reply by PAW_Fl on 4/18/05 7:50pm
Msg #32529

I do lots of NASCO/Citibank HELOCs and never have two witnesses except for deeds. I'm looking at a Citibank mortgage right now... Even if there are "lines" it doesn't mean that witnesses are "required". I have never had two witnesses for them.

I've also done NFRES/NFCU without witnesses. Again, mortgages do not require them, so I don't do them.

Reply by Margaret/Florida on 4/18/05 7:59pm
Msg #32531

What about the other documents they want witnesses on, what do you do with those?

Reply by Margaret/Florida on 4/18/05 8:04pm
Msg #32534

My signing instructions tell you need two witnesses on the NFCU

Reply by PAW_Fl on 4/18/05 9:47pm
Msg #32549

I went back and looked at my closing orders & instructions and there is no mention of witness requirements. I also looked at an equity HELOC through SigningZ which made no mention of witnesses.

Reply by Dee-FL on 4/19/05 7:11am
Msg #32584

I always thought that in the State of Fla. you had to have only 1 witness and it could (if needed) be the notary. Most of the lenders that I have worked for have always told me this. Let me know.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 4/19/05 7:26am
Msg #32588

Documents (for recording of real property) other than those that convey ownership of property do not require witnesses per FL statutes:

Florida Statutes Chapter 695.03

Acknowledgment and proof; validation of certain acknowledgments; legalization or authentication before foreign officials.--To entitle any instrument concerning real property to be recorded, the execution must be acknowledged by the party executing it, proved by a subscribing witness to it, or legalized or authenticated by a civil-law notary or notary public who affixes her or his official seal, before the officers ...

However, the statues do require two (2) witnesses for deeds that convey property:

Florida Statutes Chapter 689.01 How real estate conveyed.--
No estate or interest of freehold, or for a term of more than 1 year, or any uncertain interest of, in or out of any messuages, lands, tenements or hereditaments shall be created, made, granted, transferred or released in any other manner than by instrument in writing, signed in the presence of two subscribing witnesses by the party creating, making, granting, conveying, transferring or releasing such estate, interest, or term of more than 1 year, or by the party's agent thereunto lawfully authorized, unless by will and testament, or other testamentary appointment, duly made according to law; and no estate or interest, either of freehold, or of term of more than 1 year, or any uncertain interest of, in, to or out of any messuages, lands, tenements or hereditaments, shall be assigned or surrendered unless it be by instrument signed in the presence of two subscribing witnesses by the party so assigning or surrendering, or by the party's agent thereunto lawfully authorized, or by the act and operation of law.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 4/18/05 9:35pm
Msg #32548

Florida is not a witness state. I have never had instructions that told me to have witnesses present or sign any documents, other than deeds. Even though there are places for witnesses signatures, I have not had them sign nor present at the signing. I have been asked on one occasion to sign as a witness as well as the notary, but that was only time.

Reply by Becca_FL on 4/18/05 9:59pm
Msg #32552

I always witness the mortgage.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/18/05 10:12pm
Msg #32554

Just checked the statutes, and upcoming bills etc, and there is nothing about witnesses being required on mortgages.
Seems, it is probably a Lenders requirement, it is not a State requirement.

Reply by Dee-FL on 4/19/05 8:41am
Msg #32602

Wow, really. All of SS that I work for have given me instructions that there must be a witness present at the signing or I may witness the doc.

Reply by BK_FL on 4/19/05 8:12am
Msg #32596

Along these lines I just had an Ameriquest mortgage rejected for not having 2 witnesses on the mortgage. I tried to explain it was not a Florida requirement, but they insisted it was. It boiled down to being the closer of this file wanted it, but they will never admit that. Went back out to resign the mortgage and not for free. I never had this issue before with Ameriquest.
Even when I do state the Florida statute and everything they still don't believe me! And thank you Paul for providing this several times as I have several print outs!
BK/FL

Reply by Becca_FL on 4/18/05 8:29pm
Msg #32540

Huh?

Paul, Sylvia & Margaret,

When I read the first post in this thread all I could say was; where the heck have I been? I consider myself to be pretty well informed especially when it comes to my profession. I have not heard about a state requirement for witnesses on mortgages either. Ditto to what Paul & Sylvia said re: NFCU & NREIS. I have never used a second witness.

Let's all meet back here tomorrow and report what we have found out. I too will be calling the courthouse to find out what is going on and if the rules have changed.

Reply by Melody - nonFL on 4/18/05 10:22pm
Msg #32556

Yikes! My sympathy to FL NSAs if that is the case! n/m

Reply by PAW_Fl on 4/18/05 10:51pm
Msg #32559

Re: Yikes! My sympathy to FL NSAs if that is the case! n/

Save your sympathy for when we really need it. I think someone at Notary Pro is over zealous, over anxious, completely misinformed, or is taking notes from the NNA. (Or all the above.)

I'm sure if it was indeed the case, there would have been lots of warning flags all over the real estate, financial and settlement sectors down here. And since there hasn't been a peep about much of anything in those areas, I'd bet it isn't true.

Reply by Happy_in_Fl on 4/19/05 3:02am
Msg #32579

While we're at it-

Is it only "scuttlebutt or for real" about one of the Notary Bills before Florida Law makers- is for Journal requirements and thumb- prints- etc etc?

Any thing further on that?

Reply by BMoon/FL on 4/19/05 6:09am
Msg #32581

Re: While we're at it-

I heard that the bill died again. Do you journal? I have kept one since I began in 2002 and use it to keep up with notarizations, mileage, etc.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 4/19/05 6:59am
Msg #32582

Re: While we're at it-

It's still in committee. That's where it dies every year. I don't think this year will be any different. But, you never know what the state legislators will do.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/19/05 7:41am
Msg #32592

Re: While we're at it-

And this year it includes raising our fee to $10 per signature instead of $10 per notarial act, so it will probably die again!