Posted by Confusion, NY on 4/18/05 1:41am
Msg #32388

Journal Entries for Loan Signings

When conducting a loan signing, after the borrower(s) have signed the specified document (such as an affidavit/jurat or where an acknowledgement is made), do you normally ask the borrower to sign your Journal after EVERY acknowledgement/affidavit/power of attorney? Do you record the state fee as well for EVERY ack/aff/pot?

ALSO, are our regular state notarial fees assumed to be included in an agreed signing/closing fee? For example, if I were to accept a signing for $75...and I have notarized 5 documents, is my $10 state notary fee included in that $75?
(In NY it is only $2.00 for an aff. or ack...5x$2.00=$10.00).

Any help/feedback with this is more than appreciated. Please note also that it is NOT required in New York State to keep a Notarial Journal, I do it for my own protection (same with E&O Insurance...not required).

Thank you to who reply.

Reply by Ernest_CT on 4/18/05 11:17am
Msg #32435

Always have your journal signed FIRST, that way if the borrower stops the signing you still have your journal entry.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 4/18/05 11:35am
Msg #32438

I always have the journal signed at the end. I personally won't sign someone's journal before the process is completed either. To me, the signing of the journal says that the process has been completed and all things are done. I wouldn't expect for someone to ask me to sign a journal stating that the documents listed are signed and completed. I don't ask my signers to do that either.

It's the same as if an electrician or plumber came to do some work. I wouldn't sign the work order stating the work has been completed, until such time as the work is in fact completed. IF the work isn't completed, then the work order must reflect that as well, before I would sign it.

If the signer's refuse to sign the documents, I make a note to such in my journal and have the signers sign the journal with that annotation. I've never had any problems getting a signer to sign the journal, even when they refused to sign all the documents.

Reply by HisHughness on 4/18/05 12:00pm
Msg #32442

Ernest cautions:

***Always have your journal signed FIRST, that way if the borrower stops the signing you still have your journal entry.***

I agree with Ernest. Texas does not require a signature in the journal, but does require that the notarial transaction be journaled. The function of the journal, from the viewpoint of the state, is not to verify the completion of a closing. It is to record each time the notary stamp is used. Having the journal signed first just makes sense to me from any number of perspectives, not the least of which is the possibility the SA may simply forget to have it done if the signing is delayed till the end of a closing. At my age, you'll sometimes even forget to go to the bathroom; forgetting a delayed journal signature occasionally is a given.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 4/18/05 12:40pm
Msg #32453

Hugh stated: "It is to record each time the notary stamp is used. Having the journal signed first just makes sense to me from any number of perspectives, not the least of which is the possibility the SA may simply forget to have it done if the signing is delayed till the end of a closing."

Well, having the journal signed before the stamp is applied doesn't meet your definition either. You stated that the journal documents when the stamp is used... past tense. How can one sign a journal stating that a notarization has taken place (past tense) when in fact the signature to be notarized hasn't yet been applied to the document?

The possibility of the SA forgetting to get the journal signed is a stretch, imo. That is along the lines as the SA forgetting to get the DOT or mortgage signed or forgetting to notarize the signature. A part of the process is ensuring the journal is an accurate representation of the notarial acts performed. Therefore the completion of the journal is just as important as getting the documents signed, signatures notarized, and signers identified.

Reply by HisHughness on 4/18/05 3:52pm
Msg #32494

PAW contends:

***Well, having the journal signed before the stamp is applied doesn't meet your definition either. You stated that the journal documents when the stamp is used... past tense. How can one sign a journal stating that a notarization has taken place (past tense) when in fact the signature to be notarized hasn't yet been applied to the document?***

Give it up, Paul. Even as anal as you are, I can still out-anal you every weekday and twice as much on weekends, not to mention leap years. I can have the borrowers sign up front the same way I can administer the oath to them at the outset when they haven't read a single affidavit. If they run across an affidavit that is incorrect, they either correct it or they don't sign it; either way, the oath remains good. If they sign the journal up front, and there are no notarizations entered for them, the signature is simply surplusage in my journal. It implies nothing.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 4/18/05 5:17pm
Msg #32510

You do it your way, and I'll do it mine. That's all there is to it. Nothing about being anal, just different strokes for different folks. If everybody did it exactly the same, it would be a dull world and we wouldn't need attorneys.

Reply by Stephanie_CA on 4/18/05 12:38pm
Msg #32451

When I come across a doc in a loan package that requires notarizing, I enter the info in the journal; if I receive the docs far enough in advance, I will enter as much as possible in my journal prior to the appt.; so I add the time of each notarization in my journal - complete the line - I complete a line per sig. - I continue with the signing...when all docs are signed I have signers sign each line. Then I have each signer give me a thumbprint.

On Saturday, I handled a signing $95.00, 6 docs requiring notarization, 9 sigs.
In CA, it is $10.00 a sig, the $95.00 included my services as a Notary Public, making sure all docs were properly executed, a courier (returning docs. in a very timely manner), and travel.
The fee was a "bundle fee", so to speak.

Reply by Confusion, NY on 4/18/05 1:28pm
Msg #32476

thanks Stephanie CA...

That is what I figured, all Notary Public services were included in the agreed signing fees.

Thanks again for YOUR response.

Reply by ZLee_Califia on 4/18/05 2:57pm
Msg #32489

Shortchanged by $20.00 - Thoughts for the Day

"9 sigs" = $90.00 @$10.00 per signature. That doesn't even factor in the "labor" in preparing the docs, i.e., dowloading, printer, car, packaging and sending. According to the payment of $95 you are paid a whopping $5.00 for anything other than sigs.

Had you gone on your own, you could've charged $90 plus travel, plus labor....[Figured it at $25, but it may have warranted higher mileage]...My car mechanic just made $250 for $16.00 worth of parts plus computer car check of $70.

The SS company is coming out way ahead on these "bundle fee" jobs, especially if the Lender gets up to $250 to get the docs signed. JMHO

Z

Reply by CaliNotary on 4/18/05 4:06pm
Msg #32496

Re: Shortchanged by $20.00 - Thoughts for the Day

"Had you gone on your own, you could've charged $90"

"The SS company is coming out way ahead on these "bundle fee" jobs, especially if the Lender gets up to $250 to get the docs signed"

And how exactly do you propose she had "gone on her own"? The reality is that she would have received $0 if she had turned down this job. If it were that easy to cut out the signing companies and title companies and just do straight notarizations on real estate documents, don't you think some of us would be doing that by now?

I don't know which lenders are getting $250 for doc signings, but the vast majority of signings I do show a notary fee of either $125 or $150. I'm sure there are exceptions, but this seems to be the standard fee.

I try to run my business within the parameters of the reality of how things are done these days, not in some idealized fantasy world where the concept of the middleman and markups don't exist.

Reply by Stephanie_CA on 4/18/05 6:22pm
Msg #32521

Re: Shortchanged by $20.00 - Thoughts for the Day

The Loan Docs were overnighted FedEx - No printing of edocs.
The signing took slightly over 30 minutes, mileage 7.60 round trip.

By the way, I don't just go on my own charging $10.00/sig.
I am fine with the fee that I received, I don't want you to be concerned about me.
Thank you.

Reply by Toni/PA on 4/18/05 8:31pm
Msg #32541

Re: Shortchanged by $20.00 - Thoughts for the Day

Zlee...unfortunately your humble opinion, in this case, has no real basis for what it's like in the practicing Notary Signing Agent business-an auto mechanic and a notary agent are two completely DIFFERENT businesses. If you think the NSA fee schedule works like the example you just gave then you should go into the auto mechanic business to make that type of money.

Reply by Confusion_NY on 4/19/05 2:38am
Msg #32577

Re: Shortchanged by $20.00 - Thoughts for the Day

I'd say Stephanie made out pretty well on that deal. overnight docs, and close traveling distance!!