Posted by ItsMe123 on 4/12/05 2:18am
Msg #31092

Letting a bad business decision go--heck-even supporting it

Hi All, Hope everyone finds themselves happy and well. I have been real busy with my new business and have not found the time to say hello and as they say, there is no time like the present. I came in to say Hi and of course "surfed" just a little of the board.

One post really caught my attention. This particular post and the replies to it really surprised me. I will in advance apologize to calling the poster out (as the post itself, regardless if I remove the identifying information, will reveal the poster's identity) but will not apologize for my opinions on the post and what I think about the poster's business decision and the effects decisions like this have. I do hope all who respond to my post are able to understand the difference between one questioning a business decision and one launching a personal attack. This is business--on a business forum---and on this business forum I am going to seriously question one's ability to make a sound business decision. I am also going to question whether or not they should be in business, specifically whether they have a right to be in business.

Here's the post

"I am a new notary who just accepted an assignment. Problem: don't have a laser printer or DSL yet. The docs were sent by e-mail and I need to know if I could convert my Lexmarkx63 to do the work need. Please hurry with answer as I have appointment in about 1 hour."


Now what we have here is just this------Someone decides to be a notary/signing agent. They saw some ad in the paper or heard it on the radio and said--"wow maybe I could do that." They are more than aware they are not prepared and lack the proper equipment to do an assignment but they do nothing at all about it, instead they wait for the phone to ring. I can only hope they put more time into educating themselves for this business then they did in preparing their home office for it but I think I already know the answer to that (just pure speculation). The phone rings, someone asks if they can do a closing. There is no doubt this signing was scheduled and contracted out as email docs--the signing was in an hour. They knew well and good the documents were coming by email and they didn't have a chance in hell in downloading them, printing them and having them ready for the homeowner to sign. They did not care whatsoever. Instead of being respectful to the other members in the lending industry that have put forward the proper effort, preparation, and financial investment into their business (yes someone has already put out the cash for this loan to get to the table ---credit pulls, processors, abstractors---nothing is free) and instead of having any respect at all to their peers, the notary/signing agents now or formerly in the business that have established the business to the point that caused this person's phone to ring, they without regard say, "yes, I can do it". No respect at all to the homeowner who has set this time in their day to sign a large loan that puts their home up as collateral and deserves to feel confident in the people they are working with, no respect to the escrow officer that puts in effort, no respect to the SS that will definitely take a hit on their integrity as this loan has no chance whatsoever of being done on time--who cares about the marketing efforts they put in for this contract with the title company or the lender. Who cares about the marketing efforts of the title company guaranteeing to the lender that this will close smoothly----regardless of their efforts, it is out of their hands. Who cares about the commission only LO who the customer will place fault on when the end of the transaction goes bad---the closing is the last thing the customer will remember about the loan experience--forget any referral business out of that loan. Nope--can't say we aren't prepared and at least allow the chance of the job being passed to a prepared professional notary/signing agent that will only say they can do it when and if they can do it. But hey-----that notary/signing agent "professional", a profession now that someone is going to pay them in exchange for a service, will demand that 50,100,150 dollars--whatever it is --because "darn it, I took the assignment at the last minute, had to go to Kinko’s to print, used MY money to get the docs, and it closed"

Just can't say, "No I am not prepared for this transaction" because they might not call again instead they decide I can do it somehow---I will post at NotaryRotary and then sit and wait to see what others tell me what I should do as the hour ticks by---Those people on NotaryRotary better be nice and if they aren't well, I just say they are mean to "newbies" My Goodness---Unbelievable.

Now instead of drilling home the importance of preparation and how such a decision affects the notary/signing agent part of the lending industry and how it reflects of some of you work so hard to command the air of professionalism you strive for in this industry--Instead of telling that person to call whoever hired them and tell them what a horrible business decision they made and fess up-------NotaryRotary posts instead educate this person about pay ---PAY???? Yep, make sure you get that edoc money--above all else, no doubt. And I quote from the post

"ask the scheduler whether the docs will be overnighted or if they will be edocs (because, above all else, you need to charge more for edocs than overnighted docs)."

When one shows such a lack of preparation in their business and has no regard how their lack of preparation may affect the other business' in an industry especially in an industry where one's actions are interdependent on the other players in the industry --when they fail to realize that they themselves are representing the notary/signing agent profession to others in the lending industry and to the customers of the lending industry----when they fail to prepare but demand a place---do you want them to represent you when you have done all the preparation, when you have done all the education?---do you want the other players in the industry to see you as a peer or someone who has no vested interest at all in the industry?---Do you instead want to make sure you tell them they can get an extra 25-30 bucks because the documents came by email?-----well when no one says anything and only tells another how to increase their pay, that is what you are allowing to happen.

As I have stated before, my post will without doubt result in flaming posts directed at me---some will not even look at the business aspect but instead go direct to the personal level—they will read all of this but fail to think any of it through in a business sense. They are the ones who refuse to look at the notary/signing agent function as a business, a integral third party vendor business in the a multi-billion dollar lending industry. Not just a little part time gig you try to schedule around getting the kids to soccer or getting the oil changed. You want to taken seriously and respected as an important part of an industry--well make your peers act the part and you will.

Those of us who think business minded and look for professionalism in this industry need to respond very assertively when we see posts like this in our business forums, although like myself, we often choose to scan what someone has said in response to a poor decision, agree with one says wholeheartedly and then see the flames that follow. However, when we do just sit by, we are allowing, even supporting, the notary/signing agent business to not be taken seriously by the other players in the industry. There is no way if others in the lenders industry scan our profession boards we can be taken seriously. Who cares if the --she's mean" or she is "one of the rude ones" or my all time favorite "someone is always new sometime" follows when a bad business decision is called out for what it is. Isn’t it better to show those entering our industry how to run a responsible reliable business and be called mean every once in awhile rather than tell them how they could have earned an extra $30.00 and not comment on horrible preparation? If I am investing a hundred thousand dollars or more, American pension dollars no less, and my recouping my investment in the event of foreclosure is dependent on a set of documents being signed correctly, I do not want to put my trust in an industry that chalks the mistakes of those new to the industry on their business forum up to "everyone starts somewhere" and the "you have to be new sometimes" comments-- that is nothing but excuses, the business world doesn’t do excuses. Let’s tell it like it is---you need to prepare and educate yourself. Don’t work in our business until you do and most certainly don’t look for our support until you do. We will answer every question you have as you prepare to work in our business but don’t tell us you have a signing scheduled in an hour and now is the time you have decided to educate and prepare yourself. If you choose to do that then you need to call the people that are PAYING you to train you—tell them you have no clue what you are doing and you have none of the equipment to do the job. Do you think an appraiser goes on an internet forum an hour before an appraisal is scheduled or due, announces he’s “new” and proclaims he doesn't have MLS ability in that county or do you think he might ask someone about getting setup before he/she takes the work? Do you think a lender looks for licensure to close/fund loans in a certain state before they contact a customer or do you think they do that an hour before close but still tell the customer they are prepared? Do you think an abstractor calls a local title company and asks how to do a title search when they are driving to the court house? Get professional—get prepared—don’t make all of us look like fools. I bet that Kinko’s employee was impressed. How can you say there is ANY integrity in that homeowner’s data when you have a community college dropout trying to figure out how to download and print your docs during the eleventh hour before a close. I have to chuckle –I think of some of the people here who have put no effort at all into preparation and complain that they might have to give their SSN to a SS but yet they have no integrity at all for a borrower’s financial information.

The notary/signing agent business that has tried and struggled to assert itself as a reliable value-added part of the lending industry. This business has proclaimed over and over again "we are a very important part of the lending process and deserved to treated and paid for the value we add to the industry." However it is the same business that shelters and even coddles those that enter it with no preparation at all---no education in the industry; entering it with overall laziness and lack of any effort to properly educate themselves in the industry coupled with what I can only describe as a half thought out idea to make a few extra bucks a month. This laziness and the coddling only functions to decrease the overall value of the notary/signing agent business to the lending industry. Those who read our profession boards who contract out loan signings have every reason to doubt the competence of those they hire. They see the ridiculous posts and how they are answered—directing one with no respect at all to their business just being told to make sure they get that extra 30.00 dollars. Faxbacks are for a reason, the confidence level of the others members of the lending industry is non-existent when it comes to the notary/signing agent business. I even read a post where a notary was thinking of calling a borrower that had a closing scheduled at three in the afternoon and asking if six would be ok for them since her garage sale was scheduled until five. Other posters told her ok—do it. Now what would you think if that was you borrowing all that money? What would you think about the people involved in the transaction? More and more very large wholesale lenders are no longer allowing mobile closes----they will only allow an in house close. Gee, after some of the posts it is no wonder why, Guess they are just mean.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/12/05 7:48am
Msg #31102

""ask the scheduler whether the docs will be overnighted or if they will be edocs (because, above all else, you need to charge more for edocs than overnighted docs)."

Yes, I posted that! As others had replied she/he should have a laser printer there was no need to repeat it.
And although I do not advocate getting docs printed at Kinko's, it had been suggested, and the poster needed to know that if they are edocs he/she needs to charge accordingly.
They already realized they need a laser printer.

Reply by Bobbi in CT on 4/12/05 8:05am
Msg #31107

Good post. I meet more happy lawyers ...

I hear from more happy to get the work back at our higher fees lawyers because of incidents like this. It seems the lenders and title companies want perfect, professional packages without hassle the first time - assign it to a lawyer.

Granted, lawyers make mistakes, too. They don't, however, ask for answers to competency test questions on public message boards. I belong to a number of private boards (non-attorney memberships) and groups where lawyers often have similar gripes or questions, but only their other lawyer friends know about it.

The novices do need to learn and need experience. Unfortunately, more and more customers are complaining that they don't want their loan to be the one the NSA practices on. No slam at any one individual. Just do alot more homework before you jump into this industry.

Reply by Joan-OH on 4/12/05 9:12am
Msg #31112

You are a brave Signing Agent to post this.....

....braver than I. I DO agree.

I remember my first calls two years ago. A title company called to see if I was available and to interview me. I was honest and said "I have studied and studied, became certified, have the necessary HP laser equipment, E&O etc, but this will be my first job, I want you to know that and I may have a few questions on the documents" They thanked me profusely for the honesty and elected to go elsewhere. It was the end of the month and they didn't have time to babysit me. They respected me for my honesty and I respect them for not taking a chance on someone elses loan.

Edocs are last minute. You don't get the time to review the docs before going out and it is not a good situation for the first time signer. Overnight docs for the beginner gives a signing agent time to review and ask questions before getting to the table.

Joan-OH

Reply by CYNDI_AL on 4/12/05 9:28am
Msg #31113

I am trying to get started in this business and I have been reading the posts here "getting educated" before I even think about going out for a signing. I really appreciate your post as it has helped me tons. (Believe it or not! lol). It has really given me something to think about and the more I think about it, the more I want to do this. Yes, the money is always nice, but there are so many other things involved. Thanks for bringing those things out in the open. Thank you.

Reply by ssnotary on 4/12/05 10:53am
Msg #31125

Whew........I'm exhausted....a bit lengthy in content. Thanks!

Reply by Reginald Wilks on 4/12/05 10:54am
Msg #31127

123

I read your post around 3:30 am this morning at first I was not sure what you were doing. After I slept on it I realized you are correct. If we do not correct the person making bad business decisions and posting them on this site we are as much at fault for the business decisions as he/she is. I think that's why we feel we are getting a bad deal on our fees and other things like not getting paid. If you read the IC it tells exactly how the Company pays.
I think if you asked the ss they would tell you when to expect your check. I think that is why some of us think we are not going to get paid but if you go back and read your confermation you will see.

Therefore IMHO we should start trying to incourage others to make better business decisions instead of always suggesting trying to get more money from the ss. That way we can build our profession into a more realiable and professional business rather than a cut throat dog eat dog job.

Reggie
Kansas

Reply by Angee/VA on 4/12/05 11:02am
Msg #31131

ItsMe123...I couldn't agree with YOU MORE!! You made many great points about how not being prepared as a Notary Signing Agent effects many, many people and puts our industry and personal business in jeopardy in the long run.

I think that those of us that understand business in general and who respect and want the mobile notary and signing agent business to continue in a professional and progressive manner will completely understand your post-very well stated!

Reply by CaliNotary on 4/12/05 11:46am
Msg #31136

Is it wrong....

that I was physically aroused by this post?

Very well said. Unfortunately it's likely to go right over the heads of those who need to understand it the most. I see it's already inspired a response thread telling us to stop complaining and that we need to be nicer to each other.

I'm going to continue doing what I'm doing. Yes, some people are going to think that I'm a big a**hole for it, but I've got a thick skin. I can't revolutionize the training in this industry, but I can do my little part by being as blunt and as clear as I can when I post. I've seen enough positive responses to my posts to make me feel that I'm on the right track.

Except of course when I give the wrong answer. Then people are just mean for pointing it out to me!

Reply by Jon on 4/12/05 12:35pm
Msg #31165

Re: Is it wrong....

CaliNotary......giving wrong answer......say it ain't so!!!!!!

Whomever said you were wrong is rude and disrespectful. They have no business being on a public message board!!!!!!

Don't worry Cali, we got your back.

Reply by Reggie on 4/12/05 12:58pm
Msg #31180

Re: Is it wrong....

One more comment about this thread If someone would like to learn there is an information item put out by National Notary Association I don't think it's a book but it is longer than a pamphlet so, I don't know what to call it.

THE MODEL NOTARY ACT September 1, 2002. You can go to NNA site and copy it and study it and learn from it or you can bad mouth the NNA and not get anything out of it. It's up to you.

Reggie
Kansas

Reply by Jon on 4/12/05 2:50pm
Msg #31220

Re: Is it wrong....

A word of caution about the Model Notary Act, it is based on the NNA opinion of what a notary should or shouldn't do, not notary law. Much of it is sound practice, but you need to know your state rules so you don't inadvertantly violate them.

Reply by Ernest_CT on 4/12/05 8:38pm
Msg #31337

Echoing Jon

The NNA's Model Notary Act is very nice. It also doesn't match the laws in most states. You MUST know your state's rules and regulations! Studying your state's Notary Manual (or Notary Handbook) is not just for preparing for your commission. The more you study it the more you will find.

One of the reasons people are told to include their state's two-letter abbreviation when choosing a name to use when posting here is so that other notaries can give advice / opinions that are relavent to that state.

Reply by Stephanie_CA on 4/12/05 1:35pm
Msg #31196

Re: Is it also wrong....

that your post put a smile on my face?

Reply by Ted_MI on 4/12/05 2:19pm
Msg #31207

Re: Geez, Cali.........

you mean to say that you can give it out but you can't take it? LOL

Reply by Larry on 4/12/05 2:52pm
Msg #31221

CaliNotary - in response to an earlier post.

In regards to the Felicita posting you stumpled through...

I wasn't being a jerk. But you sure as heck are! Must every post you make be just anotner opportunity to force your bile into this potentially brilliant place. Well, go be unhappy in your own private hell, you obviously living in one, there are those of us who can live without name-calling. I know there are some of us who like it too.

You are so very very SAD!. How is it that you got to be so very piitful? Who hurt you?I know I didn't! You must be so put upon in life, because all adults know that behaviour like yours, this causeless lashing out, is because YOU HAVE BEEN ABUSED. Go take care of yourself before you damage someone else.

Pity I feel... and sorrow... and embarrassment that you actually call yourself "CaliNotary." You represent neither the great state of CA nor the great tradition of public service that is being a NOTARY.

You are so text-book - why don't tell us about that while you puke your ugliness. So we can gain a perspective on how truly ugly your life is! probably not - that would be too insightful and honest.

Along with our protest over low fees we should protest people like this person CAliNotary who give us all great cause for emabarrassment. Public Service does not have room for this type of sophomoric bs. We come from a long tradition of service.

Remember that the bottom line is trust. When you advertise that you play frisbee with people work - the word "trust" does not immediately pop up.

I cannot imagine inviting you into my home. You horrify me.

I read your posts and I see truly useful information, but this cannot be all for you - and then you punctuate it with your typical coarse RUDE comments. I wasn't a jerk at all, with you stinking up this room with your noinsense, there is very little room for anyone else to be one. YOU EMBODY IT! USE SOME SELF CONTROL

I am leaving this room forever - I don't need to participate in your jaded notes any longer - the information here is useless when coupled with the poison spewed by these vipers.

Best to all of you except that stinkpot.

Okay - now I'm a jerk too,

Happy?

Reply by CaliNotary on 4/12/05 11:07pm
Msg #31367

Re: CaliNotary - in response to an earlier post.

This is so very amusing. Thank you for the chuckle.

Reply by CaliNotary on 4/12/05 11:02pm
Msg #31366

Re: Geez, Cali.........

Heh. But of course. Isn't that how it goes in here? The most insulting posts towards me are usually coming from those who complain that people are too mean on this board. I figure I should just join the "everybody is mean but it's ok when *I* want to get something off my chest" club.

As a matter of fact, I think your post gave me hurty feelings. RUDE!!!

Reply by BrendaTX on 4/12/05 7:07pm
Msg #31310

Re: Letting a bad business decision go--heck-even supporting

Michelle,

Thank you for saying this.

I have also heard this from the title company's side.

Brenda

PS - I am a little jealous about CaliNotary's response, to be honest. This is the second time this month he's showed his attraction to another woman who is not me.

Reply by Ernest_CT on 4/12/05 8:50pm
Msg #31342

Well said! It is obvious not enough people ...

... are taking the NSA business serious enough. Doubt it?r Just take a look at the increasing number of faxbacks required, the notes added to each package warning us to check ID and have the signers sign their names as they are typed. The signing services feel it is necessary to include such instructions because of the shoddy work some people are doing.

Bobbi's right. If things continue to erode, the signing services will be using lawyers instead of notaries.