Posted by BrendaTX on 4/23/05 8:13pm
Msg #33583

Question for New Notaries

I am curious about the way things are done for new notaries just getting their commission.

Did you not get a little handbook with your commission?

If you do not have one, try searching online for your handbook and print it out. Read it. It is essential that you know the rules in these books so that no one can ever convince you to do something that you should not.

For instance, the other day I had a guy ask me if he brought me his wife's TDL would I notarize a document for him that she had signed that morning. See...notaries do this all the time where he's from.

Answer: No.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/23/05 8:34pm
Msg #33586

Brenda
Problem is that quite a few states do not have an adequate handbook.

I wish all states would require stricter notary education and exams to become a notary.

Reply by BrendaTX on 4/23/05 8:43pm
Msg #33590

I agree totally, Sylvia. The Texas Handbook is quite slim. However, I am very curious about this.

I talked to an Indiana notary at length one day and her main complaint about her NNA course was that the course did not cover enough certificates.

She felt that NNA did not do this so that the ones in the class would purchase another coursebook. I don't know about this and don't understand this problem with notaries not knowing how to get their basic forms. I am not being critical or judgmental...I just want to know what's up with this.

Like I said, the Tx HB is very slim, but it does cover the basics like statutory forms, ID, Venue, and the no-no things.

Reply by Brijoe_WA on 4/23/05 10:01pm
Msg #33601

Well I know that in WA when I got mine they do not issue a handbook,and there are not any requirements to be a notary, just pay the money. There are no tests, no background checks, just a simple form to fill out and send in your money. Its been a few yrs since I recieved my comission, so things may have changed, but I pretty sure they havent.

Reply by BrendaTX on 4/23/05 10:06pm
Msg #33604

Thanks, Brijoe. I am just totally amazed by this.

Reply by Maryann - CA on 4/23/05 10:16pm
Msg #33605

In California, as of July 1, 2005, you will have to take a notary training class by a state certified instructor with state certified ciriculum in order to become a notary. The California notary laws just changed again this month......the state of California notary handbook is about 50-60 pages and changes all the time.......

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/23/05 10:18pm
Msg #33606

California has an excellent handbook, and so does Florida. But very few states do.

Reply by Maryann - CA on 4/23/05 10:20pm
Msg #33607

from what my instructor said, more states are going to required training and certification in order to become a notary. does any know how one of the terrorists got on the plane that went into the WTC - the notary didn't verify identity!

Reply by Brijoe_WA on 4/24/05 1:44am
Msg #33616

I have done search after search for some sort of handbook for WA, what I found is WA does not have one.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/24/05 2:13am
Msg #33617

Re: Question for New Notaries- Brijoe

Brijoe
Click on my link to go to my profile and e-mail me. I do have a 19 page booklet for Washington Notaries Public I will be happy to e-mail you.

Reply by Indiana Notary on 4/24/05 12:16pm
Msg #33635

In Indiana, you don't take a test, there is no handbook and there's about 2 pages of legislation that address what a notary can do or should do. For example, most you can charge for Notarizing a signature is $2.

That's pretty much it.

I too wish there was a guidebook out there that might show me the various "loan documents", how they should be properly completed, and other pertinent information.

Reply by Julie-MI on 4/24/05 1:45pm
Msg #33643

I doubt the SOS is in the business of helping notaries to complete mortgage documents. This is what a title company is for.

My state changed its notary laws last year, the first changes since 1846. I pity the notary of 1846 that did not have a drivers license or social security card to check the identity of the signer! Especially those that were not "locals."

After four years reading posts relevant to this subject, I cannot fathom how much education is needed.

The notary id's the person(s), give them the oath or affirmation or acknowledges their signatures. Add the venue and the date, sign your name and stamp/seal/emboss if necessary. How much education do you need? I could not begin to see how it takes 60 pages in a handbook to be a notary. Or that a California notary is better than a Michigan notary.

It's all in the conscience of the notary--how many times have we seen our fellow CA notaries up in arms at their own personal closings where the mobile notary didn't journal properly or follow procedure? Then they say they are going to report them to the SOS. Well, I have never seen any follow up to these stories.

My state gives me the basics because that's all that is involved (unless you live in LA). The notary has to have personal integrity not to backdate or actually see the signer. You can have all the education, but unless the state's make breaking notary laws a huge crime it still boils down to the individual.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 4/24/05 12:46pm
Msg #33637

Thanks for the info on the new Handbook. I got one in January but it is already out of date. I just finished printing up the new one.... great update Maryann!!

Reply by To SarahBeth-ssnotary on 4/24/05 1:30pm
Msg #33642

Hi Sarah, I did just download the CA handbook from the Secretary of State Website, it is dated Jan. 2005. You are suggest this is currently out of date. Is that possible? This would only be 4 months old and I can't imagine the state has time to update every 4 months?

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 4/24/05 3:50pm
Msg #33655

Oh no not suggesting that at all, I got mine the first week of January and it was the 2004 handbook. Tho I knew the jurat rules had changed I looked at my blue handbook and it was 41 pages long. Somebody had said that the new one was 50-60 pages or so. I thought it would just be smart for me to print up the new one and go thru it since it was obviously not the same one I had.

Reply by To SarahBeth from ss notary on 4/24/05 3:55pm
Msg #33656

This is very interesting, I printed the CA handbook this morning from the as I stated earlier CA Secretary State website and the page count is 35, what am I missing here? Confused?

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 4/24/05 4:06pm
Msg #33657

The page count in the blue book will be different than the page count printed from the Sec. of State site due to page size and font size. It will still have all the same content.

Reply by To Sarahbeth from ssnotary on 4/24/05 4:11pm
Msg #33658

No, the only reason I mentioned page count was because you appeared to use it in comparing the 2004 to 2005. I have the blue book from 2004, now as I mentioned I printed the Jan. 2005 from the website. My question is, is the current website handbook the latest issue or do you know? The page count is of no importance.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 4/24/05 4:24pm
Msg #33661

I couldn't say that it's not the current one. It should be. It's certainly more current than the one I had.

Reply by To SarahBeth from ss notary on 4/24/05 5:51pm
Msg #33671

Ok thanks, I work for the goverment myself and don't think they would revise a handbook more then once a year if that.

Reply by Melody on 4/24/05 6:18am
Msg #33620

Brijoe_WA

What county are you in?

Reply by Brijoe_WA on 4/24/05 11:33am
Msg #33632

Re: Brijoe_WA

I am in Spokane county. Why do you ask? Are you in WA?

Reply by Melody on 4/24/05 1:52pm
Msg #33644

Re: Brijoe_WA

Yes. Post your email address and I'll email the WA regulations to you.

Reply by Brijoe_WA on 4/24/05 2:59pm
Msg #33650

Re: Brijoe_WA

[e-mail address]

I actually already had them sent to me. I just havent been searching in the right place. E-mail me anyway I would love to chat.

Reply by Victoria/FL on 4/24/05 9:00am
Msg #33622

I received my commission 8 months ago. I attended the 3 hour required class (and then later that day the NSA class) from the NNA. They provided a Florida-Approved workbook and reference guide which covers the general aspects of being a notary (role, identification, how to complete certificates, etc.) and also references Florida Statutes which pertains to the topic covered. They also suggested purchasing the Florida Primer and reading the governor's website. I thought the training was a good introduction on becoming a notary, however in order to completely retain the information, a person would definitely need to take initiative to read the Florida Notary Law again, and again, and again.

I think the problems lies in the fact that there is not a notary test in which you are held accountable for actually knowing the information. For instance, in class we were divided into small groups and asked to role play. In my group of 3, the other two people clearly did not understand how to complete an acknowledgment. They didn't understand whose name to fill-in under "this day by _____". So here they go off after class ready to notarize without even knowing the simplest of notarial acts.

If the state would require testing as a requirement to obtain your commission, I think there would be a lot less mistakes. It wouldn't be a bad idea for experienced notaries to take a test every two years as well.

I've been signing up with several signing services and I'm surprised then when they want to qualify me by asking the most basic questions, " How do you explain the HUD!", "where would find the loan's interest rate?", "if a borrower had questions about their loan, what would you do?" Maybe these questions seem basic to me because I used to be a loan originator, but I wouldn't dream of conducting a loan closing until I was completely familar with loan documents. I guess they've been burned too many times by inexperienced notaries thinking they could jump into this "earn BIG MONEY" job without fully understanding the basics.

Am I rambling? The bottom line is that more people need to take the inititative to educate themselves and not rely on the little training received.

Reply by Brendatx on 4/24/05 9:14am
Msg #33626

*The bottom line is that more people need to take the inititative to educate themselves and not rely on the little training received.*

That's a very good way to look at it IMHO, Victoria.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/24/05 9:39am
Msg #33628

Re: Question for New Notaries- Victoria

Victoria
You can go online to the Governor's site and take the class online and there is a test.

http://notaries.dos.state.fl.us/education/index.html

I still think "live" classes are the best, but with the online class (free) there are a series of questions to answer.

Reply by Victoria/FL on 4/24/05 4:39pm
Msg #33666

Thanks - this is helpful.

Maybe you should post this link to the Florida Signing Agent Board.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/24/05 5:17pm
Msg #33670

Re: Thanks - this is helpful.

Good idea

Reply by Stephen_VA on 4/24/05 9:07am
Msg #33624

Virginia publishes a handbook that pretty well covers the bases. In addition, the oath you take to become a notary requires you to say you have read and understand it, for what that is worth. You have to have 2 people vouch for your character and meet with the clerk in person to be appointed.

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/24/05 9:12am
Msg #33625

**In addition, the oath you take to become a notary requires you to say you have read and understand it, for what that is worth.**

In Texas, this is true as well. Thanks for the info.

Reply by Art_MD on 4/24/05 10:17am
Msg #33629

In MD you fill out a form, give 3 reference. Goes to SOS who forwards it to your state representative for where you live. A couple of weeks later, you get notification of your appointment. Go to county clerk, pay $20, take an oath and you are a notary public. At that time you get your handbook.
Fast, simple, and DANGEROUS !!

Art

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 4/24/05 12:08pm
Msg #33634

In CA for new notaries you must take a 6 hour course, and pass the exam. Then fingerprinting, and background check. Pass all of that and you recieve your commision. In order to renew you must take a 3 hour refresher course.

In answer to the original scenario there is a narrow exception. There's Proof of Execution by a Subscribing Witness. Requirements are the gentleman must be personaly known by you. He must take an oath saying that the principal requesting that he have the document notarized, and that the principal either signed or acknowledged signing the document in front of the subscribing witness. If the subscribing witness is not personally known by you they may bring a witness that must be personally known be the notary and the subscribing witness. No satisfactory evidence is allowed. The subscribing witness must sign the document and the notary journal.

When I took my course there was a couple that just couldn't grasp this even tho we role played it a few times.

Reply by Sonya on 4/24/05 12:44pm
Msg #33636

I look at this differently.....

Yes my State has a handbook (it is a small one) & a ton of Compiled Laws -- does every Notary read them? NO
Does the SOS care that some of these Notaries do not follow the Law? NO
The SOS in my State will not take complaints about other notaries -- they tell you to go to the Prosecuting Attorney and file a complaint. I don't believe most of the Prosecutors know how to proceed with a complaint about a Notary ( Prosecutors are back logged with other crimes). So it is a vicious circle.
I know of a few Notaries who have broken the Law. And these Notaries know that they can get away with it. I believe that they break the Law for the $$.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 4/24/05 12:47pm
Msg #33638

Re: I look at this differently.....

what state are you in Sonya?

Reply by Sonya N. Armfield, esq. on 7/21/05 3:04pm
Msg #53683

Re: I look at this differently.....

Maryland

Reply by ERNA_CA on 4/24/05 2:52pm
Msg #33648

Re: I look at this differently.....

It happens a lot I am sure. Many just follow the instructions of the SS and forget their responsibility as a notary. Notarize what ever is required regardless of it it is in appliance with the law or not. Others keep in mind at all times their responsibility as a notary. I was at a signing last night, was a resigning, Borrowers told me the notary at the first signing did not complete their copy's of the RTC, did not want them to look at anything not even make sure their interest rate was correct. Just sign and get it over with. Scary.

Reply by Dorothy/MI on 4/24/05 4:47pm
Msg #33668

Re: I look at this differently.....

Erna, but the most of what the first notary did (or did not do) does not fall under the Notary umbrella, but the signing agent umbrella. So they could have followed the notary laws to the "T" and still been a rotten signing agent.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 4/24/05 9:44pm
Msg #33700

Re: I look at this differently.....

I wonder as they were not called back to do the resigning?

Reply by Cyndi_AL on 4/25/05 9:24am
Msg #33759

As far as I know, Alabama doesn't give them out. I've never gotten one and I've gotten commissioned twice. I am due for a renewal this week, so we'll see. I did print out the guidelines for notatires from the state, but even they seems very vague.