Posted by MaggieMae_CA on 4/27/05 11:02am
Msg #34315
***theft of intellectual property***
Maybe this is a question I should ask of Harry. Yesterday someone asked a question about contact information on iMortgage. I responded to the posting and told her to click on the Signing Services tab and I posted the contact information.
Ernest_CT left a posting that Premier Members who provide such information to non-premier members are committing ***theft of intellectual property***.
I thought the purpose of the message board was to provide information. I thought the contact information for the various signing services was public information. Did I do something wrong by providing contact information and telling the original poster where to look for the information?
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Reply by jojo_MN on 4/27/05 11:40am
Msg #34321
if she wants that access, she should pay like everyone else. That's one reason I upgraded!IMHO
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Reply by MaggieMae_CA on 4/27/05 11:48am
Msg #34326
When I signed up, I signed up as a premier member and have always been able to access the signing services tab. I didn't know that non-premier members could not access the information. I've read postings all the time with title company/lender/sign service names and their contact information on this board. I did not know this was a taboo.
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Reply by Jay on 4/27/05 11:50am
Msg #34327
I think you are absolutely right!
Now they can blast both of us.
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Reply by ColleenCA on 4/27/05 11:53am
Msg #34328
Re: I think you are absolutely right!
As a non-premier member, you can view all of the companies on the signing services tab and their star ratings, but you can't view the contact info. Most are easy to look up however so I really don't see a difference.
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Reply by Roger/OH on 4/27/05 11:59am
Msg #34330
Not a big deal
Info on many companies is exchanged freely among posters on this and other boards all the time.
Just because a company happens to be on NotRot's list doesn't make its contact info proprietary; it's available from a variety of sources.
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Reply by MaggieMae_CA on 4/27/05 11:59am
Msg #34331
Re: I think you are absolutely right!
This is why people post Anon on this board. It's like you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I've noticed that some postings are completely ignored by members and never responded too. I can't believe someone doesn't know the answer????"
Postings range from providing valid and timely information, notary stories on the business, put downs, whining, bashing and digs.
I can't believe SS and title companies actually come on this board, read the postings and actually hire some of the most negative people I've ever encountered.
If the shoe fits, wear it. If the shoe doesn't fit, then you know what I'm saying doesn't apply to you.
Golly... Gee... Wiz... I don't know what I should or shouldn't say here.
I posted a message under feedback and hopefully Harry will respond and let me know what information I can and cannot provide to posters.
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Reply by Ted_MI on 4/27/05 12:18pm
Msg #34337
Re: A partial response
MaggieMae,
I have been reading this board rather religiously for about six months or so. I really don't share your perception about postings being ignored and never responded to. My impression is that the vast majority of posts are responded to. Posters should realize that maybe if they are not getting a response it is because they haven't indicated what state they are from and their question requires a state-specific response.
As to why certain companies would hire very negative posters, it is probably because they are very knowledgeable and do a very good job. Let me speak a bit from my own experience. I have done a fair amount of work with one company, mostly HELOCs. Let me tell you I bitch about this ; I bitch about that. Now am I polite? - yes., I am. The reason I do it is their perceived failures make my job more difficult. A recent example - I was not provided work numbers for certain borrowers; that made it difficult to contact them. Now do they still send me work? Yes, they do; actually the amount has been increasing. Now why do they do that? Because I do a good job; I know what I am doing.
Now having said all this, am I going to pat myself on the back? No, because I sincerely feel I have an awful lot still to learn.
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Reply by HisHughness on 4/28/05 1:03am
Msg #34529
Re: I think you are absolutely right!
MaggieMae_CA whines:
***Golly... Gee... Wiz... I don't know what I should or shouldn't say here.***
You know, Maggie, it generally isn't a matter of what one says on this board that gets them in trouble; it is the things they don't hear that cause them problems.
You asked a question. Ernest answered it from his perspective. He wasn't rude, he wasn't blunt, he wasn't discourteous. He was simply stating an opinion based upon his experience. As it happens, I disagree with Ernest, as do several other people on this board on this question. But Ernest has a perspective, and he presented it, because you asked for it. Then you complain about getting the answer.
It is behavior such as yours in this instance that has driven many of the veteran signing agents off this forum. I -- and many others whose expertise formerly was available to agents such as you -- just could no longer tolerate the demanding, whining goldbricks and neophytes who have taken it over.
I would suggest you go back and read Ernest's post, then post three words to the man: "I'm sorry, Ernest."
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Reply by HisHughness on 4/28/05 1:08am
Msg #34530
Re: I think you are absolutely right!
Maggie, I see that you have made your amends with Ernest. The preceding post was written before I was aware of that.
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Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 4/27/05 12:07pm
Msg #34334
First of all I did not even think of that list when I had asked. I had been to iMortgage's website by using a search totaly unrelated to NotRot. I tried to input my info and for some reason the website wasn't working. When clicking on the contact us link you were required to put in a password. I came here and used the message boards search feature and found no contact info. So I asked if anyone had it. I didn't even check the list after the info was given, therefore I did not know that there was info that wasn't available to basic members for that particular company. It's not hard to find info by means of google or other search's. Every once in a while you come up dry. I was in no way, shape, or form trying to gain access to restricted information. I have seen several posts asking for contact info for different companies and different reasons in the last few months that I have observed these boards.
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Reply by MaggieMae_CA on 4/27/05 12:13pm
Msg #34335
Sarah... From the various postings I've seen on the message board (disclosing contact information on various companies), I really don't think either one of us did anything wrong. Ernest_CT left the posting about the ***theft*** and I wanted to get some feedback.
Maybe Ernest got up on the wrong side of the bed and that's why he said what he did (we all get up on the wrong side of the bed at times), or maybe I am in some kind of violation. I would like a straight answer from Harry so I know what's up.
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Reply by jojo_MN on 4/27/05 12:15pm
Msg #34336
Just to clarify...I don't think it is "theft" as you can get the info on their websites. I was just stressing that we should support this website. Sorry if I offended anyone.
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Reply by Ted_MI on 4/27/05 12:21pm
Msg #34339
JoJo,
I don't think it's intellectual property either. That is a definite reach.
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Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 4/27/05 12:22pm
Msg #34340
I just wanted to clarify what had happened so that nobody would assume that either of us did anything wrong. We all know how important integrity is in this field. I too would like to see Harry's answer on the question.
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Reply by John / FL on 4/27/05 12:33pm
Msg #34341
Maggie -
Don't sweat it. You did nothing wrong. The previous posters were right on in that a business's contact information is hardly proprietary, particularly when it is available from so many other sources.
Now, if you were to make all of the contact info for each firm on the site available, they might have something to complain about.
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Reply by MaggieMae_CA on 4/27/05 12:39pm
Msg #34342
Thanks John/FL
I agree. Thank you for seeing where I was coming from.
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Reply by Stephanie_CA on 4/27/05 12:59pm
Msg #34346
Just the other day I did post info for a company from the Signing Services tab, indicating that it can be seen on that tab once the company is clicked on.
I thought nothing of posting it at the time, although it is an interesting point.
Prior to becoming a Premier Member, I knew more infor was available to members with the premier membership. I never asked anyone on this board for any additional info, but rather went on the net and researched until I found the info.
Indeed this infor is a benefit of upgrading to a paying membership. Is it right to provide this info to non-Premier Members?
I never really thought of it until now, with this thread.
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Reply by Ernest__CT on 4/27/05 1:04pm
Msg #34348
Posting here so all can see what was posted on Feedback
The Feedback Forum is available only to Premier Members; Basic members cannot see it. The following two posts have been copied and pasted so that everyone can see that MaggieMae_CA and I are being civil and respecting each other's opinions. MaggieMae_CA is a valuable member of the Notary Rotary community, in my opinion.
I have never suggested that we not share information, especially contact information. My concern is strictly about copying from a members-only section of Notary Rotary (or anywhere else, for that matter) and posting it in a public space.
----- MaggieMae_CA's post -----
Harry, Yesterday someone asked a question about contact information on iMortgage. I responded to the posting and told her to click on the Signing Services tab and I posted the contact information.
Ernest_CT left a posting that Premier Members who provide such information to non-premier members are committing ***theft of intellectual property***.
I thought the purpose of the message board was to provide information. I thought the contact information for the various signing services was public information. Did I do something wrong by providing contact information and telling the original poster where to look for the information?
----- my reply -----
Please see message 34062 on the General Discussion Forum.
The data on iMortgage has clearly been copied and pasted from the Signing Services area available only to Pemier Members.
There may have been other instances of copying and pasting NOT by this user! It message 34062 that caught my attention.
MaggieMae_CA has asked good questions and provided good answers, in my opinion. It is not my intention to show disrespect for her or seek to have her banned. My sole concern is with the wide distribution of data for which some of us (including MaggieMae_CA) have paid.
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Reply by MaggieMae_CA on 4/27/05 1:14pm
Msg #34353
Re: Posting here so all can see what was posted on Feedback
I respect Ernest as well and have even offered to send him a box of delicious See's candy. I was posting the question because I don't want to be in violation of anything. I do want to be able to get feedback from members who know more than I do and I don't want to be blacklisted by people because I don't comply with ethical behavior.
Ernest... Check the "Feedback" for the message I left you on the See's.
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Reply by Jon on 4/27/05 11:40pm
Msg #34521
Re: Posting here so all can see what was posted on Feedback
OK, what do I need to do to get some See's sent to me????????? 
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Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 4/27/05 1:50pm
Msg #34361
Never heard of the Feedback Forum - how do you access it?
I'm a premier member but can't find anything about a Feedback Forum. Is this something new?
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Reply by Charm_AL on 4/27/05 1:52pm
Msg #34363
Barbara...
when you login
instead of clicking on general discussion, click feedback
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Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 4/27/05 1:59pm
Msg #34365
Thanks! - It was too obvious I guess :-) n/m
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Reply by Stephen_VA on 4/27/05 1:40pm
Msg #34358
I would say that it is rather bad form to post that information into the public forum. However, that information is most certainly not intellectual-property. Copying the layout and formatting may violate some copyright, but the information is publicly available and factual in nature making it outside of copyright protection. (A lawyer will tell you that anything can be fought in court, so what I'm saying is meant to be the general interpretation) This site is packaging that information and presenting it in a novel way, that is what can be protected.
That being said, I would not devalue this site by publishing that information because I recognize it on a personal level more than I recognize it at a legal level.
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Reply by monica on 4/27/05 11:33pm
Msg #34519
Depends on what steps the individual takes to keep the information private according to my information. If many people had access to it and it was freely spoken about in groups of people it would not fly as theft of Intellectual property.
You would have to have a do not disclose agreement with the party that included a spelling out of what the actual intellectual property was and he would have to have this with everyone who was a premier memeber of this board. Everyone in my office signs ones along with a do not disclose and people that we train or use as closers and send out from our office signs ones as well because they are privy to information from being in our office.
Not an attorney...and cannot give legal advise, but have been around this block.
Monica
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