Posted by dan/ca on 4/24/05 7:58pm
Msg #33680

customer id verification

when recording an id verification in your mojo, what kind of notorial act would it fall under?

Reply by BrendaTX on 4/24/05 8:00pm
Msg #33681

Dan, do you mean jurat or ack?

In Tx if it starts out "Subscribed and sworn to ____" That is a Jurat.

Reply by dan/ca on 4/24/05 8:07pm
Msg #33682

it starts out " i, the undersigned, hereby certify that"

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/24/05 8:09pm
Msg #33683

If this is a form where you are saying you checked the signers ID and you are the one signing it, then it is not a form you put your seal on, so would not need recording in your journal.

Reply by dan/ca on 4/24/05 8:12pm
Msg #33684

this is a form requireing borrower's name, date of birth, photo id and notarization.

Reply by BrendaTX on 4/24/05 8:38pm
Msg #33687

Dan, perhaps a CA notary can help you out.

This is not something provided for under Texas Notary law and I don't have any insight on CA law.

Reply by janCA on 4/24/05 8:52pm
Msg #33691

Dan, if you want, fax it to me and I'll take a look. 559-625-5654

Reply by Hampton/CA on 4/24/05 8:53pm
Msg #33692

Dan,
Fax it to me at 815-642-9104. Give me a fax or email to respond to, or I can respond here if you'd like.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/24/05 8:54pm
Msg #33693

The key thing is although they are asking for the borrowers name on it, are there signature lines for the borrower?

Can you fax it to (as well as Jan)I would like to see it.

321-234-9266

Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 4/24/05 10:28pm
Msg #33714

Dan - if this form is to be notarized then it should have notarial wording on it for a jurat or an acknowledgement. You can not notarize something without the correct wording, and you can not decide what that should be, even if you know. The person who supplied you with the document must tell you what notarial act to perform.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 4/24/05 10:54pm
Msg #33724

Is this id verification where you are supose to chek 2 id's then sign it. I never use the stamp on that one just sign it.

Reply by JanetK/CA on 4/24/05 10:59pm
Msg #33726

BarbaraL is right

If you're sure it is to be notarized and the notarial wording isn't there (or isn't clear), call your contact person before your signing appt. In CA it is considered UPL to make that determination for a document you are notarizing.

As far as entering it into your journal, if it doesn't fit into a category already listed, you can just write the document name into the space below the abbreviations, being sure to include whether it was a Jurat or Ack.

Having said that, I can't recall ever having to notarize an ID document. If I'm aked to sign off on it, I can't notarize my own signature, but I can sign my name and use the title of "Signing Agent", if requested. (CA law also says that we can only use the title of "Notary" when executing a notarial act.)

Reply by ERNA_CA on 4/24/05 11:13pm
Msg #33730

Re: customer id verification Dan

Customer identification Verification.
Is included in most loan packages since september 11 terrorists attack.
Notaries are asked to excamin two identifying documents. DL and SS card for excample.
Sign it and put your title (Notary public).
There is no acknowledgement or jurat wording and no signature line for the person wich id's you are excamining. So you are not notarizing this document.If this is the one you are refearing to?

Reply by Stephanie_CA on 4/25/05 1:19pm
Msg #33813

Re: customer id verification Dan.SS not to be used n/m

Reply by ERNA_CA on 4/25/05 3:20pm
Msg #33835

Re: customer id verification Dan.SS not to be used n/m

The form actually has ss card as one form of id. Why not ss card?

Reply by Brian/ca on 4/25/05 3:50pm
Msg #33844

SS card as lenders ID

SS Cards can be used if the lender is requesting it for their form. Some lenders don't want us to use it.

Some notaries confuse this with our state requirements and we cannot use it.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 4/25/05 3:28pm
Msg #33837

Re: stephanie!!! SS card not to be used?

It is on the form as an option. Why should it not be used?

Reply by Stephanie_CA on 4/25/05 3:52pm
Msg #33845

Re: stephanie!!! SS card not to be used?

The ID Certification forms that have been in the loan docs I've received, has a separate instruction sheet - indicating nbot to use a Social Security Number, so I don't.

***As per instructions from lender it should not be used.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 4/25/05 3:56pm
Msg #33847

Re: stephanie!!! SS card not to be used?

I have never received thouse instructions.

Reply by Stephanie_CA on 4/25/05 3:59pm
Msg #33849

Re: stephanie!!! SS card not to be used?

I have received them on numerous occasions, and I always follow directions.
You just haven't worked for certain companies that contract me to handle signings for them.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 4/25/05 4:07pm
Msg #33858

Re: stephanie!!! SS card not to be used?

They all have diffrent ways of doing things. Only directions I have received in regards to that document is: Notary pleace chek two id's and sign this form, never been told wich id's are prefeared.

Reply by Stephanie_CA on 4/25/05 3:55pm
Msg #33846

Re: stephanie!!! SS card not to be used? ERNA_CA

Apparently the forms that we are receiving come with different instructions on the usage.

Reply by Ernest_CT on 4/25/05 4:32pm
Msg #33869

A Social Security card cannot be used as ID.

A lender may request a copy of it. A signing service may want to see ours. By itself, a Social Security card is NOT identification. There is no identifying information on it; just a Social Security Number and a signature. There's neither photo nor physical description. The older Social Security cards say explicitly "Not for use as identification", but that sentence seems to have been removed in recent years.

There is nothing on a Social Security card that proves that the person holding it is the person named thereon. Ergo, it is not identification. Period.

Reply by HisHughness on 4/25/05 6:23pm
Msg #33888

Re: A Social Security card cannot be used as ID.

Ernest says, quited emphatically:

***There is nothing on a Social Security card that proves that the person holding it is the person named thereon. Ergo, it is not identification. Period.***

Beg to differ, Ernie. ID can be anything the requestor wishes to accept. No one is prohibited from using a Social Security card as ID; the problem is that it is just a poor form of ID. Credit cards have on them no more than SS cards do, but they are used as secondary level ID. In such an instance, possession of the card, whether credit or SS, is evidence of identity -- flimsy evidence, perhaps, but evidence nonetheless.

With respect to SS cards, the Department of Homeland Security probably would not accept them. Lenders, however, as long as a primary level ID has been obtained, can and do accept them. I am thinking specifically of IREP.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 4/25/05 7:22pm
Msg #33896

Re: A Social Security card cannot be used as ID.

Additionally, many lenders not only accept other ID's but also **require** the SS card to be used since SS numbers are an integral part of the lenders documentation.

You are so right, Hugh, in that lenders will accept whatever they want, and can accept whatever they want, as ID for their purposes. SS cards, credit cards, utility bills, W-2's, and 1040's are very commonly used.

22nd Century may require retina scans and DNA swabs, but for now, we use what we got.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 4/24/05 11:13pm
Msg #33731

Re: customer id verification Dan

Customer identification Verification.
Is included in most loan packages since september 11 terrorists attack.
Notaries are asked to excamin two identifying documents. DL and SS card for excample.
Sign it and put your title (Notary public).
There is no acknowledgement or jurat wording and no signature line for the person wich id's you are excamining. So you are not notarizing this document.If this is the one you are refearing to?

Reply by ERNA_CA on 4/24/05 11:16pm
Msg #33732

Re: opps Sorry!!! must have hit post twice. n/m

Reply by CA Notary on 4/24/05 11:20pm
Msg #33733

Re: customer id verification Dan

You cannot use the title "Notary Public" when signing this. You are conducting a notorial act. I use "Signing Agent" when I sign these.

Reply by CA Notary on 4/24/05 11:20pm
Msg #33734

Re: customer id verification Dan

Correction - I meant you are NOT conducting a notorial act when signing these.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 4/25/05 3:19am
Msg #33743

Re: customer id verification Dan

Do you mean that it is unethical to put your title as notary public on any document that dose not require a notarial act?

Reply by Dave_CA on 4/25/05 10:21am
Msg #33771

improper use of title

ERNA asked "Do you mean that it is unethical to put your title as notary public on any document that dose not require a notarial act?"

Yes.


Please see paragraph 2 of the California code.

§ 8207. Seal
A notary public shall provide and keep an official seal, which shall clearly show, when embossed, stamped, impressed or affixed to a document, the name of the notary, the State Seal, the words "Notary Public," and the name of the county wherein the bond and oath of office are filed, and the date the notary public's commission expires. The seal of every notary public commissioned on or after January 1, 1992, shall contain the sequential identification number assigned to the notary and the sequential identification number assigned to the manufacturer or vendor. The notary public shall authenticate with the official seal all official acts.

A notary public shall not use the official notarial seal except for the purpose of carrying out the duties and responsibilities as set forth in this chapter. A notary public shall not use the title "notary public" except for the purpose of rendering notarial service.

The seal of every notary public shall be affixed by a seal press or stamp that will print or emboss a seal which legibly reproduces under photographic methods the required elements of the seal. The seal may be circular not over two inches in diameter, or may be a rectangular form of not more than one inch in width by two and one-half inches in length, with a serrated or milled edged border, and shall contain the information required by this section.

The seal shall be kept in a locked and secured area, under the direct and exclusive control of the notary. Failure to secure the seal shall be cause for the Secretary of State to take administrative action against the commission held by the notary public pursuant to Section 8214.1.

The official seal of a notary public is the exclusive property of that notary public, and shall not be surrendered to an employer upon the termination of employment, whether or not the employer paid for the seal, or to any other person. The notary, or his or her representative, shall destroy or deface the seal upon termination, resignation, or revocation of the notary’s commission.

Reply by ERNA_CA on 4/25/05 1:05pm
Msg #33810

Re: improper use of title. Thank you Dave n/m

Reply by HisHughness on 4/25/05 1:10pm
Msg #33811

Re: improper use of title

As a part of a loan closing, I occasionally, as do all signing agents, get a verification of ID document that seeks ID information about the signers. I am supposed to fill it out with the appropriate information. The document requires the signature of the person who filled it out, and the role in which he was involved in the transaction.

I have no problem noting that I was the notary for the transaction, and I think it would be a real distortion of what the California statute seeks to do to contend I could not identify the role I served in the transacton.

Reply by Jon on 4/25/05 2:14pm
Msg #33822

Re: improper use of title

Hugh,

The verification of ID form usually has to do with Patriot Act compliance. As such, we are not "rendering notarial service", we are acting as an agent of the title co or lender to verify ID. I agree with Dave and would say that using the title "Notary Public" is a violation of the law.

Now, does it make a difference??? More than likely not, I seriously doubt that there could be any "harm" as a result of using "Notary Public" instead of "Signing Agent" and therefore no liability. However, in striving to conform to state statues, I also use "Signing Agent" instead of "Notary Public".

Reply by Jon on 4/25/05 10:05pm
Msg #33922

STATUES?????????...

...I meant statutes...I can't believe you guys let that one slip by. Must be my lucky day

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/25/05 10:23pm
Msg #33927

Re: STATUES?????????...Jon...

I will notify you when the next 12 step program meets for Compulsive Post Correction Makers.

In the meantime, practice:

My name is Jon. I am a compulsive post correction maker.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 4/25/05 6:53pm
Msg #33893

Re: improper use of title

Certifying the ID information of a signer is not an authorized act of a Notary Public in the state of Florida. Therefore, I could not place the title of that office on the form. However, I could put "Signing Agent" without any problems as that is such a nebulous term without any legal stature.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/25/05 1:56pm
Msg #33819

Re: improper use of title

I usually put "signing agent"

Reply by DellaCa on 4/24/05 10:56pm
Msg #33725

I see these all the time and you are just witnessing the ID, you do not notarize. I have personally examined the identifying documents indicated above presented to me by the named individual..
And it goes on and on .................



Signature_______________________
Name and Title___________________


Not notarized so not logged into Journal.

Reply by Stephanie_CA on 4/25/05 1:15pm
Msg #33812

Since I don't notarize an id verification, there wouldn't be a journal entry.