Posted by will_CA on 4/12/05 12:10am
Msg #31073

don't understand loose acks

Hi, new notary here.. still not comprehending the concept of loose acknowledgements. I can't imagine the average person would be thrilled with a notary stamp on a separate piece of paper connected to their important document with one measly staple. Most folks expect to see the stamp right there at the bottom of the document, and it makes more intuitive sense to me that way.

So, are there any big stamps with an acknowledgement on them? I see tons of '2005 jurat' stamps but can't find one with the CA ack on it. I realize it would be a damn big stamp but what do you do when someone won't let you use a loose ack (I know I wouldn't)? Do you just memorize the ack and write it out on the document? Seems a little amateurish to me.

Thanks again! Love the site and the forum here. Great info.

Will - San Diego

Reply by Hampton/Ca on 4/12/05 12:39am
Msg #31074

If you refer to your CA handbook, you'll find that a loose certificate is to be used when the wording is not pre-printed on the document. Loose certificates are also used to replace wording that is inconsistent with CA code. (There are exceptions, which are outlined in the handbook.)

Thus, since the use of loose certificates is clearly addressed and supported in the CA code, they are not amateurish, but rather an important tool of CA notaries.

Reply by Will_CA on 4/12/05 1:32am
Msg #31087

Hm.. I'm not seeing that in the handbook. What I did see was this:

§ 1188. Certificate of acknowledgment
An officer taking the acknowledgment of an instrument shall endorse thereon or attach thereto a certificate
substantially in the form prescribed in Section 1189.

§ 1189. Certificate of acknowledgment; form; sufficiency of out of state acknowledgment; force and effect
of acknowledgment under prior laws
(a) Any certificate of acknowledgment taken within this state shall be in substantially the following form:
State of California )
County of _________ )
On __________ before me, [etc]

So it seems that using an ack stamp is not out of the question.. since it would comply with 1188 by being "endorsed thereon"... The only question would be the amount of space at the bottom of the document. To me stapling a loose ack onto an important document is like stapling a sheet of paper with your signature on it onto a check.. just doesn't seem right. Seems like it should be less tenuous than that. There's bound to be an ack stamp out there!

Thanks again.

Will - SD

Reply by Jon on 4/12/05 2:00am
Msg #31091

If you really want to have an ack stamp, just have one custom made to your specifications. As long as the wording complies with Ca law, you should be fine.

BTW, I have never seen an ack stamp for sale.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/12/05 7:51am
Msg #31103

Re: don't understand loose acks - Will

"attach thereto a certificate substantially in the form prescribed in Section 1189."


If you are attaching a certificate, obviously it is a loose one, or it wouldn't be needed to be attached.

Reply by Jon on 4/12/05 12:52am
Msg #31078

As a notary, you are the authority when it comes to notarizing a document. If the signer doesn't want a loose certificate, I explain to them that California requires certain elements to be present on the notary certificate and if any of those elements are missing, the notarization may not be valid. Futhermore, if I complete the certificate incorrectly I could be fined, lose my commission or both. I NEVER allow the anyone to tell me how to do my job. If the person doesn't like it, they can find someone else.

BTW, if you attach a loose cert you have the complete wording on it, not just a stamp. I would never handwrite an ack, I made one on my computer and print them to carry in my briefcase.

Reply by ColleenCA on 4/12/05 8:25am
Msg #31109

If the wording is not printed on the document already, that probably means that there wouldn't be enough room for an ack stamp anyway. Thus the reason for the loose cert.

Reply by CaliNotary on 4/12/05 1:48am
Msg #31090

Stapling the loose acknowledgement is the standard operating procedure for pretty much all California notaries. It's not a matter of people "letting" you use it, they have no choice.

Just get a stack of them and don't give it a second thought. There's no point in trying to reinvent the wheel, and if you're a new notary your time could be better spent learning other stuff you need to know for the job.

Reply by DM/CA on 4/12/05 11:08am
Msg #31133

Will, I can see why you would be concerned about the security of using a loose certificate, but this is standard practice.

In order to make it harder for someone to attach my loose certificate to another doc, I always write a good description of the doc I am notarizing on the certificate. If the lender supplies a loose certificate that doesn't have a preprinted area for a description of the doc, then I substitute my own certificate.

Another suggestion that I have heard is that (in addition to the inked stamp) you could use an embosser with your seal on it and position it so that half the seal appears on the doc and the other half is on the certificate. Then make a notation on the doc and on the certificate explaining that the other half appears on the other doc.

Reply by Anonymous on 4/12/05 12:58pm
Msg #31182

have any of you had problems with the area for the stamp being so small that if you aren't absolutely perfect the border is going to touch the edge of the wording on the cert?

Reply by Stephanie_CA on 4/12/05 3:22pm
Msg #31232

Re: don't understand loose acks..I have a seal that measures

Approximately 1 5/8" by 3/8".

I use this when there isn't room for my regular seal measuring in at 2 1/4" by 3/4".

It works great.