Posted by John_NorCal on 8/31/05 11:25am
Msg #62860

Correcting Docs

Tried a search on this but came up empty.
Have many of you been instructed to add a borrowers spouse, etc onto docs for their signature? Did a signing for a company, docs had just the husband's signature block, had him sign as usual. Got a call from SS who said borrowers wife needed to sign too, so had docs sent back to me for her signature. Her name was added to docs for her signature. SS claims they had sent me confirmation to add her name onto docs, I never saw it. Besides that, I don't consider that in the realm of our responsibilities. Feed back anyone?

Reply by BetsyMI on 8/31/05 11:29am
Msg #62862

Hope you're getting paid again to get the wife's signature. If not, can they supply you with the "confirmation" that they sent you to add her name on the docs? You're not a mind reader.

If her name was not printed ANYWHERE in the docs, I would have done the same as you. Sometimes the one spouse's name is everywhere in the docs, and the other spouse's name is only imprinted on a few, like the TIL, Note, DOT, RTC. I have usually called the TC to find out why (usually the 2nd spouse has lousy credit or something like that), and if they want her to only sign the four docs or everything. Never had a problem with that.

Reply by Charm_AL on 8/31/05 11:30am
Msg #62863

it sounds like their mistake, I hope they are covering a second fee for your return trip. In all the closings I've done, if the name isn't on the docs, it's not signed. The only closings where the spouse signs only a few docs are vested owner cases. They would have let you know beforehand and had her name typed. IMO

Reply by Art_MD on 8/31/05 11:35am
Msg #62866

I think the SS is full of .....

I've had cases where there was a significant error discovered after docs were sent to me. NEVER was this done by fax or e-mail, always a phone call. No one in their right mind (that excludes many SSs) would trust a fax or e-mail to positively arrive.

If they had called and mentioned this oversight, I would have requested a confirmation by e-mail or fax, detailing exactly which docs got her signature. It definitely is not up to us to determine which get whose signature.
Also, during the conversation discussing the changes, then you are in a good negotiating position.

Art

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 8/31/05 11:38am
Msg #62868

I know that in CA the non-borrowing spouce must sign the HUD, TIL, and RTC. Adding the spouce's signature there doesn't bug me. But last week I did one where the lender sent a checklist of something like 8 to 10 docs saying make sure nob signs these if name is not preprinted on them. I felt like they were just trying to pass the responsibility to me in the event that the person who's responsibility is to get the docs done correctly does not do it correctly. Now that is where I think it is beyond our realm of responsibility. I am not a trained LO and should not be expected to check thier work.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 8/31/05 1:30pm
Msg #62915

oops meant to put DOT there also.

Reply by John_NorCal on 8/31/05 12:20pm
Msg #62886

Re: Correcting Docs > Update.....

SS called said the doc preparer sent a letter detailing which docs to fax back. Got them on a 3 way conversation, nothing noted as far as faxing back. Took care of that.
I feel docs should have all required signature blocks before being shipped to SA. In this case they weren't and the attorneys office screwed up.
Yes, I am definitely charging a 2nd signing fee, it was their error, not mine.
Thanks all!

Reply by Anonymous on 8/31/05 12:49pm
Msg #62900

Its easy to reflect blame elsewhere but did you do your due diligence?

Do you have your original confirmation? Did you review it to verify any particular instructions? These may (depending on company) will not only discuss signer/signature requirements but items that needed to be picked up? Did you review the closing instructions? These will also go over any particulars to a signing.

If you you did not do the due diligence (answered no to any or all of the above questions), I would say its your bad and there shouldn't be any additional fee. If however you answer yes to all of the above...you deserve the additional fee and should not go with out having it in writing.

Reply by Roger_OH on 8/31/05 1:07pm
Msg #62906

You should have caught it...

Being in a community property/dower/homestead rights state, when you saw the borrower was married with only his signature line appearing, you should have confirmed that the spouse was a non-borrower. You should have known she would HAVE to at least sign the security docs (RTC, TIL, Mortgage, and maybe HUD) and contacted the SS that the name was omitted, instead of just ignoring it. Granted it wasn't included and should have been, but this is basic knowledge and part of the service a signing agent provides.

Reply by MelissaM_FL on 8/31/05 2:32pm
Msg #62945

I agree with Roger

I'm in one of those homestead states and I realize that often my docs are coming from a lender/TC/SS that does not realize FL requires the non-borrowing spouse to sign. Therefore, I call the SS or TC and ask about having the spouse sign the appropriate documents and I note on my confirmation who I spoke with and what docs they told me to have signed. This eliminates problems later, IMO.

Reply by Renee_MI on 9/1/05 5:19am
Msg #63201

Re: I agree with Roger, kind of loudly and long!

This is one of those classic examples that provides the opportunity to affirm that choosing to use an NSA is a benefit to all, and not a hinderance.

No, we are not Closing Agents, we are not Settlement Agents, we are not L/O's - we are Notaries and Loan Signing Agents. All that is granted, however - life, as they say, is in the details and w/out either knowing or finding out how to get the wrinkles ironed smoothly, whenever a lack of the details causes a funding issue - the field of NSA's takes a blow.

Nobody anywhere needs to carry all the answers in their heads - gosh, not even brain surgeons could do that. All anyone ever needs to know is how to ask and where to ask. IMHO, anytime a loan doesn't fund because it did not close inside a title office, it is a strike against our favor. OF COURSE, there will be valid reasons as well as invalid reasons, but on the score card those aren't often tallied separately.

Docs often have errors - they have just as many errors when they're sent to close inside a title office, but they're less likely to prevent funding. THAT margin is what makes or breaks our line of work, not just individual careers.

I know I have a point somewhere ... my point is this - if our perspective were focused on providing a benefit to the clients/borrowers in using our services, instead of focusing on who made what mistake and who's fault it is, we would perhaps build a more solid 'industry' for ourselves.

I sure hope my wording doesn't come across as harsh, my intentions are NOT to be harsh at all, but to do what I can to help our industry, so that using an NSA is a choice made without hesitancy or reserve.

Reply by Michael Friedel on 8/31/05 1:05pm
Msg #62905

Then there are the lenders who know the non-borrowing spouse needs to sign some of the documents but their software won't print the non-borrower spouse's name on only some of the documents. So they want the SA to be a closer and their secretary because they don't have adequate software to do the job correctly.