Posted by Tara_CA on 8/31/05 6:59pm
Msg #63039
E&O Insurance - How Much?
Sorry, I did a search but didn't quite find what I was looking for. I know it's not required for CA, but strongly recommended. I can't really afford the $100,000 4-year policy which is what I feel is probably best. Would it be totally worthless to get $25,000? Or does that just not cut it? What are your thoughts?
THANX VERY MUCH!
| Reply by Margaret_FL on 8/31/05 7:09pm
Msg #63044
I have 100,000 but I only pay 1 year at a time through the NNA $60
| Reply by Tara_CA on 8/31/05 7:18pm
Msg #63049
Ooh -- I could handle $60. I'll look into that. Thanx very much. I'd feel much better with $100,000 coverage.
THANX!
| Reply by Tara_CA on 8/31/05 7:23pm
Msg #63051
Re: Ouch - not quite as cheep for me.
I just checked the NNA website and it's much more expensive for me than $60. More like $160-$200 (approx) for 1 year at $100,000 coverage.
So I guess my question still stands... is it okay to get by with less coverage. Or is that just a bad decission... suck it up and pay for the real coverage when I can afford it?
THANX!
| Reply by Margaret_FL on 8/31/05 7:23pm
Msg #63052
That is for Florida, so I don't know about CA
| Reply by Ilona_OH on 8/31/05 7:26pm
Msg #63053
With whom can you get 100,000 E&O for $60.00 per year? I have 50,000 with NNA but am adding employees. Thanks!
| Reply by Margaret_FL on 8/31/05 7:43pm
Msg #63059
I got $100,000 for $60 a year at the NNA for Florida
| Reply by Barry Silver on 8/31/05 7:41pm
Msg #63058
I am one of those people who firmly believe in the maximum E & O. I realize CA has one of the highest rates in the country for the policy, bit that is because of the huge number of lawsuits against notaries public in CA. This can be verified on the Secretary of State's Home Page.
Your cost for maximum insurance is $9.75-$12.20 per month depending where you get the policy. You're talking $0.33-$0.40 per day. That's less than the cost of a can of soda or bottle of water per day. Looking at the number of lawsuits against notaries out there, and the legislative acts being taken by the state goverment to try and make their notaries keep up with continuing education to curtail the number of suits, I would ask a different question.
Can you afford to be without the E & O Maximum?
| Reply by TitleGalCA on 8/31/05 8:18pm
Msg #63072
Re: E&O Insurance - How Much? Barry Silver
***because of the huge number of lawsuits against notaries public in CA.***
The HUGE number of lawsuits against notaries public? Could you provide a link? I just searched the site and can't find your reference.
| Reply by Barry Silver on 8/31/05 9:25pm
Msg #63106
Re: E&O Insurance - How Much? Barry Silver
Copy and paste the link, and this will lead you directly to the Secretary of State's page where he cites one of the reasons for mandatory continued notary education is to reduce the number of complaints and lawsuits.
http://www.ss.ca.gov/business/notary/notary_cklist_complete_mandatory_education.htm
Hope this helps.
| Reply by TitleGalCA on 8/31/05 9:42pm
Msg #63111
No, doesn't help at all
Your link shows only the mandatory education required of Ca notaries as of 2005, which most of us know well.
Where is the huge amount of lawsuits against notaries in California?
| Reply by Barry Silver on 8/31/05 10:59pm
Msg #63147
Re: No, doesn't help at all
Are you really trying to find out, or are you just trying to bust my chops? The fact that continuing education for notaries has become law, and the fact that the Secretary of State has given as reason to,
"reduce complaints and lawsuits due to negligence or misconduct by a notary public. " on his website pretty much spells it out. If there was not an abundance of problems, I doubt it would be phrased that way.
If you do not interpret the same way as I, that's OK. It's just one of those times where I have no problem agreeing to disagree.
If your bottom line is that you are disagreeing about what I said regarding E & O, that too is OK by me. We're all entitled to our opinions. Otherwise, feel free to E-mail me and make your point.
| Reply by TitleGalCA on 8/31/05 11:04pm
Msg #63151
Re: No, doesn't help at all
Your statement was inflaming, very inflaming. Your original post said "huge". The SOS site did not.
Do you not recognize normal political government statements? The site you referenced had only to do with the mandatory re-education of notaries public, a good thing in my opinion.
If you are trumping up advertising for yourself, please don't do it in this forum.
| Reply by Kate on 8/31/05 11:50pm
Msg #63161
I agree!
You go girl! I totally agree with you. Anyone can read anything in to that site they want.
Did it ever occur to him, that maybe they are having the additional education because of the amount of phone calls at the SOS from notaries?
| Reply by TitleGalCA on 8/31/05 11:57pm
Msg #63163
Re: I agree! - Kate, yes! and more... N/M
| Reply by Barry Silver on 9/1/05 1:10am
Msg #63182
Re: I agree! And you have the right to do so!
What is it that inflamed you, Kate, to jump on this bandwagon? Don't you believe people can have differing opinions without people ganging up on each other?
I am glad to have a civil dialogue with anyone. If you want to know what I think or what I considered, I post my name and a link to get to my E-Mail address for all.
Did you go to the site and read what I quoted directly from the site?
Are you upset because I shared my thoughts with the original post about E & O Insurance?
| Reply by Barry Silver on 9/1/05 12:51am
Msg #63177
Re: No, doesn't help at all
It is sad to hear you are inflamed. For what reason, I can not tell. Did you feel I attacked you in some way? Are you saying the SOS site for CA makes no mention of what I said? Apparently, you over simplified the necessity for that mandatory education; perhaps you did not understand the statement I quoted, or perhaps you chose not to read it. There is no denying; however, it is there as a cited reason for having that mandatory education.
I do believe that mandatory notary continuing education and even testing is an excellent idea whether it helps prevent lawsuits and complaints or not. Notaries have such a huge responsibility to the public, and they should brush up on those laws that they may forget, become learned with new legislation, and generally reassure the public they all know what they are doing.
What is it about my answering someoone else's question about E & O that has you thinking I am advertising for myself, and just what is it I am advertising by answering someone's post? Talk about reading something that is not there!
Why do you answer other people's posts? Does that mean you are trumping up advertising for yourself? For someone who can write a message about how happy you are and grateful for friends you have and for the information from the people you have found on this board, you sure did show me a lot of unprovoked hostility.
Please define, "normal political government statements." I do not believe I have ever heard that phrase. What is the innuendo you are making?
Frankly, I do not like arguing with anyone as it takes up too much energy that is better spent elsewhere. I've tried to present myself in a polite and helpful way, and I hope I can find as many friends on this board as you have found and perhaps count you as one. If I am not as they say, your cup of tea, that's fine too.
As I said in the earlier post, everyone is entitled to his own opinion, and people are free to disagree with each other.
You might note that I have never attacked your character, nor have I made accusations about you attempting to use this forum to get business for yourself. Attempting to be helpful toward one another is one of the primary focuses of this board, and whether you agree or not, I will continue to try to be helpful to those who ask questions when I feel I have a thought or two to share with them, much like you.
| Reply by Rebecca Fair on 9/1/05 1:43am
Msg #63188
Re: No, doesn't help at all
Again, I ask, what is your MO? Who are you?
So, you've done 650 signings, I've done over 4xs that amount in Florida & California. What makes you the expert on so many states?
Now, I'm calling you out, just like I did with the NNA. I'd be glad to have a trial run with your listing service and report back to this board my experience. Since you have no one listed in my area, you have nothing to lose. C'mon Barry, shouldn't I have the same experience Martina had? What do you say?
Barry proclaims:
>>>Attempting to be helpful toward one another is one of the primary focuses of this board...I will continue to try to be helpful ...<<<
C'mon Barry, let's be honest here.
| Reply by Barry Silver on 9/1/05 8:40am
Msg #63228
Re: No, doesn't help at all
Rebecca:
I did not realize we were running a contest here about who has more signings under his belt. While you may have 4x the amount I have provided, there are those out there who have completed 4x what you have provided. What's your point?
I never claimed to be an expert in so many states. That is your assumption.
I notice you quote that I want to be helpful toward others, and the entire quote is not there. Why does that lead you to believe one is dishonest, Becca?
How can someone spend so much time obcessing over someone else and continually attempt to mislead others ? What is your MO, Becca?
As for signings in your area, I don't believe I have had any in the Vero Beach area. If I were willing to contract with you, would you be willing to drive a couple of hundred miles to a signing? If so, why? I attempt to keep SAs from having to drive too far from their comfort zones.
Regarding what type of experience you should have, I am not the one to make that decision. Frankly, if I had a signing in the Vero Beach area, I do not believe I would call you at this point simply based on you obcessive attacks upon my character, the inaccuracy of the information you have printed here, the negativity and hostility you have, in my perception, displayed here, and your drive to make others think your way based on misleading statements. It's a shame though. You are probably good at what you do, or you would not have such strong feelings about something. But I do not believe you wouldn't bad mouth me with my clients and borrowers based solely on what you have posted in this forum without haveing communicated with me first.
Your listing says you are professional.
| Reply by TitleGalCA on 9/1/05 1:45am
Msg #63189
Re: No, doesn't help at all - Barry, for cryin out loud...
Barry...my comments to your posts were very straightforward, and stated simply. A great deal of verbiage on your part doesn't support you. You sound like an intelligent person - please don't insult everyone here with lots of language that says nothing. Just get to the point and SAY IT.
I said that your post about the CA SOS site and the need for E&O due to notary lawsuits (eg. your words - HUGE lawsuits) were inflammatory, and they were. The SOS site NEVER stated anything about HUGE lawsuits. You are not from California. The way your original post reads could 'scare' a California newbie into thinking they had to take out a large E&O policy. You sound pompous at best.
If you have a point, just say it. We're all reasonably intelligent enough to get it without 1000 words. The rest smacks of a self-advertisement campaign; seriously - I don't know you from Adam, but you're annoying for all this self-promotion and I'm pretty easy going normally!
| Reply by Barry Silver on 9/1/05 11:06am
Msg #63293
TitleGalCA...You make assumptions...repetitive
Do you know what happens when you assume? I'm sure you can figure it out for yourself.
If my articulate language annoys you, you do have the option not to read my posts! But I will continue to write and speak in the manner with which I feel comfortable. I was not aware your approval, for the way I write, was necessay for this forum. Who at Notary Rotary appointed you as a judge?
As far as the word "huge" being inflamatory, that is up to those, like yourself, who wish to interpret it that way. Would you feel better if I said "huge" as compared to the number of lawsuits filed 20 or even 10 years ago?
I hope to get back to you with the statistics regarding the lawsuits filed against notaries in CA so we may finally put this issue to rest; however, I will not apologize for my opinion regardless of the numbers.
As for not being from CA, you too make assumptions. I resided in CA for 18 years, and I am more familiar with CA notary law, legal system, areas, demigraphics, and more than you would have others believe!!!
I might agree that I sound pompous if I, like you, made so many assumptions without any facts about that which I am speaking.
You are redundant. Three times to tell me to make my point is overkill. You twice accused me of self-advertising, about what, I have no idea! Self-promotion? I share my thoughts as anyone else on this board does. When you share your thoughts, are you not attempting to pass yourself off as expert? Are you self-promoting?
I firmly believe anyone who is in a position where he can be held liable for his actions, regardless of his profession, should carry a great amount of liability insurance; for the notary, it happens to be E & O insurance. While a notary may come out on the winning side of a lawsuit, the notary still may lose during the course of the defense. Are you familiar with the average hourly charge is for an attorney in CA?
The E & O policy provides the attorney and/or settlement so the notary has no more out of pocket expense other than the policy. The highest rate I found for the 100K - four year E & O policy for CA is $585.00. If a notary is without this insurance and is faced with a lawsuit, do you think it will cost the notary less than this to defend himself?
Have I made my point, or do you wish to accuse me of self-promotion yet again?
| Reply by BrendaTX on 8/31/05 10:42pm
Msg #63139
Lawsuits against notaries...Anyone?
If we could get to a site that would report the actual number of lawsuits against notaries, I would then ask myself and wonder if all those lawsuits are actually notarial mistakes which have anything to do with E&O?
Are any of these lawsuits criminal lawsuits?
How exactly does a notary make and E&O insurance mistake? Does anyone know?
Now, I could be wrong but if $100,000 of E&O is $60 which is what mine would be, or thereabouts, I see two things here. That's pretty cheap insurance to pay off $100,000 when there are huge numbers of lawsuits. That's pretty cheap insurance, period.
I have been told by TCT that $35,000 is plenty. Go figure. You'd think they'd be in the thick of things.
| Reply by Becca_FL on 9/1/05 2:16am
Msg #63193
Why does Barry Silver....
"firmly believe in the maximum E & O." ????? Because HE SELLS IT ON HIS SITE.
Integrity? Not in my book.
| Reply by TitleGalCA on 9/1/05 2:28am
Msg #63195
Re: Why does Barry Silver....
Guess that explains a whole lot. Doesn't Harry give a clear statement about advertising on this forum? I'll check out Barry's site for E&O...manana.
If this is true, the earlier statement about "huge" lawsuits on the CA SOS website against CA notaries becomes even more awful.
| Reply by Barry Silver on 9/1/05 9:05am
Msg #63241
Re: Why does Barry Silver....
Yes, Harry does have a clear statement in his Terms of Use. Good thing I am not the one who keeps referring to the website.
| Reply by Barry Silver on 9/1/05 9:02am
Msg #63238
Professionalism
Becca,
You really should stop misleading everyone. First, I do not yet sell this as I am not yet a licensed insurance agent. Second, you're the only one telling people about it, not me. Third, I have carried E & O all the years I have been a notary, which is about 7 1/2 years.
Where is that professionalism you mention in your listing?
I hope you have a better day.
| Reply by Marlene_USNA on 9/1/05 10:41am
Msg #63286
Re: Why does Barry Silver....
He doesn't sell it on his site. He's simply preparing to do so.
| Reply by Charles_CA on 8/31/05 9:42pm
Msg #63110
How Much? How much have you got to lose??
Insurance is a necessary evil. I carry a blanket policy which covers all of my activities up to an astronomical level but that is because I do real estate and I could potentially screw up millions and loose everything I've got. One has to balance the risk versus the cost and it has been my experience that most people are underinsured. You are really the only one who can make the decision as to how much insorance is enough tempered by how much you can afford.
| Reply by Barry Silver on 8/31/05 11:02pm
Msg #63150
Re: How Much? How much have you got to lose??
Well said. Thank you.
| Reply by Tara_CA on 9/1/05 12:58am
Msg #63180
Re: How Much? How much have you got to lose??
Thanx to everyone for their input.
| Reply by TitleGalCA on 9/1/05 1:49am
Msg #63190
poor Tara...never knew what you were getting...
into...huh! Bless your heart. We're all crazy here. Just never mind us.
| Reply by Tara_CA on 9/1/05 10:17am
Msg #63276
Re: poor Tara...never knew what you were getting...
That's okay - it's entertaining at the very least (LOL). :D
Actually, it's always great to hear a broad range of opinions, so that you can put it all together and make your own decisions. Even the tagents generally have useful information that you can pull from. :D
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