Posted by dede on 8/16/05 3:25pm
Msg #59445

Is this backdating? SS said I didnt notarize Name Aff and..

ask that I send a CA ACK referencing the doc, but I want to see if this is considered backdating. They are faxing the doc to me now so I can see it because I cant belive I missed notarizing it. Any thoughts? Thanks.

Reply by CaSigner on 8/16/05 3:45pm
Msg #59447

I would be interested in who this SS is? I had the exact same thing happen to me last week. I asked for a fax and noone ever contacted me again. Are their Initials EWN?

Reply by dede on 8/16/05 3:47pm
Msg #59449

No, those arent the initials, but were you going to send....

them a Notary Cert? Not sure what to do, still waiting for the doc.

Reply by Merry_CA on 8/16/05 6:59pm
Msg #59509

The problem with this... other than it being illegal (in CA) to ever i.d. and witness the signature of a person who is "not there"... is the prevelance of these requests by TC's, lenders and SS's. One of two things is happening as I see it... either notaries, TC's and lenders are being very sloppy in their handling of docs, therefore loosing and/or missing stuff... or... TC's and/or lenders are playing fast and loose with dates, docs and acks to get the loans processed within a particular time frame.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 8/16/05 3:59pm
Msg #59455

Re: Is this backdating? SS said I didnt notarize Name Aff an

Were these e-docs or overnights? If they were edocs do you have access to check the doc yourself?

Reply by CaSigner on 8/16/05 4:02pm
Msg #59458

Re: Is this backdating? SS said I didnt notarize Name Aff an

On this one, I did not send them anything because they never sent me confirmation it was my fault.

Reply by dede on 8/16/05 4:02pm
Msg #59459

Yes, but that doesnt let me know if I missed it or not, I...

still havent received a reponse as to whether or not this is considered backdating. BUT, how else could you correct it if I did in fact miss doing the Notary Cert?

Reply by Brian/CA on 8/16/05 5:33pm
Msg #59491

It is backdating.

If it wasn't done, and they want you to make out an ACK with a previous date it is backdating.
You don't have it in your journal, the borrower didn't sign the journal for that document. It is your commission.
Myself, I would make a second trip if it was my error. If it was in the package, it should also be in the borrowers package. You didn't say how far away the borrowers live. Call them and go over and check their documents and notarize the borrowers copy. Make him a copy and mail it to him, or have the company email you a copy of the document. Then you can see if you missed it, maybe. If they signed it, and I did indeed miss it, I would make a 2nd trip,
have the borrower sign the copy, it now has an orginal signature and I can notarize it. I would with today's date.

Reply by CarolynCO on 8/16/05 4:10pm
Msg #59462

Re: How So???

*Were these e-docs or overnights? If they were edocs do you have access to check the doc yourself?*

What difference does it matter if the loan package was overnight or e-docs when it comes to seeing if you missed a notarization?

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 8/16/05 4:14pm
Msg #59466

Re: How So???

Not all Name Affidavits contain notarial wording on them. If the wording isn't there we are not to notarize the doc. If she still had it in her e-mail she could look at the doc for notarial wording.

Reply by CarolynCO on 8/16/05 4:23pm
Msg #59470

Re: How So???

Thanks. My mind was running along the line of looking at the e-docs to see if her stamp was there -- which would be next to impossible unless she had kept copies or scanned into her system the *final* executed docs.

Reply by sandy_ky on 8/16/05 4:38pm
Msg #59475

Do you scan in your computer or keep copies of final docs?

Just curious if this was common....

Reply by dede on 8/16/05 4:46pm
Msg #59479

I have heard that some of you make copies of all your notari

zations, but doing several a day and wnting to get them shipped out harly leaves time for that.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 8/16/05 4:48pm
Msg #59482

Re: Do you scan in your computer or keep copies of final doc

No the information on the docs is confidential. I usually go in my pc and delete e-mailed docs every few weeks.

Reply by CarolynCO on 8/16/05 4:51pm
Msg #59483

Re: Do you scan in your computer or keep copies of final docs?

OMG, No!!! I don't want any borrower information on my computer, disk or even paper copy in SS or TC file in my filing cabinet. I keep a copy of the order confirmation in my filing cabinet and that's it.

I deal with a lot of attorneys and have access to social security and credit card numbers. I shred EVERYTHING. A shredder is lucky if it lasts me a year.

The only reason I mentioned scanning was I *thought* the poster was telling the original poster to look at the e-docs and see if their seal was on the certificate -- which would be impossible to do *unless* the executed loan package was scanned or a photocopy was made.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 8/16/05 4:25pm
Msg #59471

Dede, if you are sending an ack to correct the fact that you didn't notarize the doc in the first place, you are correcting an error, not backdating. You'd be sending a loose ack, referencing the name affadavit, dated the date you signed the borrower and no other date. It's not backdating. (backdating is when you deliberately put another date in your certificates, that is not the date the signers appeared before you).

Not everybody agrees with me on this, that it can be okay to send a loose ack to correct work you should have done in the first place. Some will say "omg, they could use that loose ack and attach it to a fraudulent document" or "it's illegal" (and it is in some states). Its a judgment call, and if I were sending it to a TC that I had worked with before and had a comfort level in doing it, I would do it to facilitate the closing, and fix my error. DONT TAKE ANY ADVICE ON A PUBLIC BOARD THAT MAKES YOU THE LEAST BIT UNCOMFORTABLE IN YOUR COMMISSION.

But you should wait for that fax, to see the signature, and that in fact, you did not fill out the certificate.

Reply by dede on 8/16/05 4:44pm
Msg #59477

Thanks Titlegal! Everything you said is what I thought I...

just needed confirmation on it. The SS still hasnt sent me the doc and I am having a hard time believing I missed notarizing it, I am so detail oriented and I go over things a gazillion times. By the way, is doing it the way you said legal in CA? AND, filling out the Optional portion of the ACK should protect from being attached to a "fraudulent" doc. Thanks for your help, you are great!

Reply by Brian/CA on 8/16/05 4:47pm
Msg #59481

That is not correcting an error. This is backdating. Check with the Chief Investigator at the SOS, he will tell you this is backdating. I had a call during a class when he was giving a class on notary law, on this call I was asked to do the same thing, it was a message on my voice mail, so I questioned him, and it became one of the topics of conversation.

She never attempted to notarize it in the first place, if indeed she had the document. There is no entry in her journal, there is no signature of the client in the journal for that document. Legally you need to date it the day the borrower acknowledges that they signed it and you stamped it, and they sign your journal for this document. If you are audited it is your bond that is in jeopardy, error and omissions won't cover you.

Myself, I would make the trip, if it is my error, then at my expense to get it done legally.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 8/16/05 5:04pm
Msg #59486

That is an option that is the SAFEST...

For Dede to make another trip to the borrower. I should have included it in my response, thanks Brian.

But I disagree on the backdating, and made calls myself to the SOS - and gone a few rounds on the board on this issue. I'll agree you have a point - and the safest way would be to make a second trip - but to facilitate a closing - if I was comfortable - I'd send a loose certificate without a second trip.

Reply by dede on 8/16/05 6:32pm
Msg #59504

Titlegal, doesnt the date on the ACK need to be the same as

on all the other docs, so how does going back and making a second trip (which I am more than willing to do) fix the problem? The the ACK would have todays date and not the date of the Name Aff. I still havent received the fax showing me I didnt Notarize so all this may be just a moot point, as i have never missed a Notary Cert before.

Reply by anon on 8/16/05 6:29pm
Msg #59502

Brian, you are making up so much of this stuff, who said it

wsnt in the journal and that the borrower didnt sign for it. And you are also wrong in stating that it can be fixed by going back and dating it for todays date, no, that doesnt fix it and it is not backdating because the notary did in fact have the loan docs signed on that date and she still doesnt know if the SS is right because she still hasnt see the document thet were supposed to fax to her, so slow down no will ya.

Reply by Charles_CA on 8/16/05 6:43pm
Msg #59507

Re: Is this backdating? I have to agree with

TitleGal, the only thing I would add and I always do when I attach a loose certificate is wording to tie the two together. Most loans have a loan number or an escrow number and if you reference it on the certificate and the name of the document you should have a closed loop on the signing.

Regards,
Charles

Reply by dede on 8/16/05 8:36pm
Msg #59525

I went back to the BRW with a new Name Affidavit, had it...

signed and Notarized it. Escrow told me dating it today was fine didnt have to be dated the date loan docs were signed. Thanks for all your input.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 8/16/05 9:01pm
Msg #59530

Glad it worked out for you! N/M

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 8/16/05 9:08pm
Msg #59531

Re: I went back to the BRW with a new Name Affidavit, had it

dede, did they ever fax the doc to you so they could prove a mistake? If not they should be paying you for a second trip.