Posted by Just Researching in CA on 8/1/05 6:51pm
Msg #56262
Just how saturated is it in SoCal?
Earlier last month I was helping an elderly friend find a notary for her escrow instructions (she is the seller). Why the escrow company or her agent didn't arrange it for her, I have no idea. They gave her the instructions and told her to get them notarized. Anyway, I'm the only one local who can assisst her with these things (shopping, driving, etc.) and had to either find a mobile notary to go to her to take her to one on a Saturday. She's lovely and alert and fully capable of decisions...but there is a level of dementia and frailty setting in that make it necesarry for her move to a retirement community.
I called 5 different mobile notaries, and none of them would accept the assignment. I got differing answers from each of them as to why, but the general impression I got was they they were too busy or couldn't schedule for at least a week or more. Now, I didn't know about signing services. I just opened up the phone book.
I called her bank, and they refused because she was the seller and it didn't involve that bank. I found that interesting since this woman has substantial funds, and will be about to deposit a whole lot more once escrow closes.
I finally found a mailbox place open on a Saturday...but it took me 45 minutes of phone calls.
It got me thinking that there must be a need for notaries in Southern California.
The last two weeks I've been doing my research and everything I've read seems to indicate the opposite of that. It seems that I would have had any number of notaries hopping to take the assignment if I knew where to look.
So, is the problem that the general public doesn't know where to look for notaries...meaning they aren't marekting themselves in the right places?
I grew up around the RE business...mom was an agent and I worked as a receptionist in a brokerage after high school. I'm fairly familiar with the processes and forms...so I thought it would be something to look into doing. My current job is kind of shaky right now (business might close) and I've been wanting to be self-employed for some time now. PT/FT doesn't matter for me. So, I'm on the look out for ideas and this seemed to be a good one...until I saw that there were so many out there and many fairly "territorial" - and I mean that in a good way. New blood is good, but it would be hard stepping on someone's toes, you know?
| Reply by JanetK/CA on 8/1/05 7:46pm
Msg #56267
Whereabouts in So Cal are you?
| Reply by Just Researching in CA on 8/1/05 8:06pm
Msg #56272
I'm in the San Fernando Valley (LA county). It's funny because now that I've done research into becoming a notary, I've found TONS of resources for finding plenty of them. When I was just looking for a notary...I wasn't having the luck. They would only notarize for customers, they don't work on Saturday, etc. I saw a comment earier in one of the threads that I think may be true. There are lots of you out there, but maybe the marketing isn't hitting the right place?
Anyway, I've signed up for a class and haven't fully decided if I'm going to take the exam or not. I really want to get a good picture of what I'm dealing with before I commit. Obviously, if there are people struggling for work, it doesn't make sense...and I can't believe that there that many notaries out there all taking the 'wrong' networking and marketing approach.
I'm leaning toward the idea that it is a matter of proper marketing and networking...only because on one end I hear and read that there's little work...and on the consumer end I find that I had to make numerous phone calls before I was able to find a notary that would fit. It's wasn't even complicated...all we needed was one signature on a warranty deed. This woman was fully willing to pay the travel costs of a mobile notary for the one signature...but after being turned down 5 times I gave up. I'm wondering if it is because the same 5 people are getting all the calls?
| Reply by JanetK/CA on 8/1/05 8:18pm
Msg #56274
You may have a good point about the marketing. Out of curiosity, how did you go about searching for a notary and where did you look? I imagine this could be helpful for us all to know. Obviously, you did find this site. Did you look under "Find a Notary" for your zip code? If not, that will give you something of an idea of the numbers of signing agents in your area. (Scroll all the way down.) Another good site to check is 123notary.com.
The truth is that no one knows for sure, but I think the person who mentioned that we just went through month end was right on target. Also, it's clear that there has been lots of downward pressure on fees. You might also want to check to see how many classes to train new signing agents are being held by NNA and notaryclasses.com in LA, churning out more potential competition. (This would likely be more significant than the regular notary training classes since lots of them are becoming notaries to handle their employers' needs. BTW, I'm in OC.)
| Reply by Charles_CA on 8/1/05 7:49pm
Msg #56269
I believe that Southern California is incredibly saturated. Judging from your post you called seeking a mobile notary at months' end which is a very busy time for most notaryies n the loan signing business. I am a commercial real estate sales person and became a notary a s a conveninence for my clients. I suggest you keep reading the posts on this site, you will find some of the most succesful notaries here as well as those just getting into the business. One of the things most people don't talk about are the start-up costs: there are minimum pieces of equipment necessary and supplies as well as costs for licenses an certifications to be competitive. The costs are certainly not prohibitive but because of the relative ease of entering this business i believe that there is a lot of competition at the bottom of the scale and the attrition rates have yet to be quantified but I suspect they are substantial.
Best regards,
Charles
| Reply by Just Researching in CA on 8/1/05 8:11pm
Msg #56273
Thanks Charles,
I did not think about the "end of the month" thing. At the time I made my calls it was the middle of the month, so that makes some sense.
I've been looking at the costs to start-up, and no, they are not all the prohibitive. Not in comparison to some other types of businesses anyway. In fact, they almost seem quite reasonable. Auto insurance is a real kicker....it is high enough in LA, but add that "business" component to it and it gets just that much worse.
| Reply by Ernest_CT on 8/1/05 10:39pm
Msg #56312
There's more than one issue here!
Before all else, notice that I'm from CT, not CA. You need to check CA law.
1) Is it legal in CA for a notary public to _refuse_ a notarial act, providing that the signer has appropriate ID and the money to pay for the act? It isn't legal in CT! If it is not legal in CA, the notary at the bank should be reported to the Secretary of State. Ditto for any other notary.
B) How did you ask? Did you mention that your friend has "a level of dementia and frailty setting in"? Big no-no if you want service! The notaries may have been frightened of legal consequences. If you had taken your friend to the notary and the notary had felt comfortable that your friend was competent, you would not have had a problem. I went through dementia with my mother before she died. Not a fun thing. When dementia was just beginning, mother would have to be cautioned that the conversation was serious and not to kid around, then she would focus and behave lucidly. After a while, however, she did not know where she was or who I was.
III) Notary Signing Agents (that's nearly everyone here) don't usually want to do a simple document, they want complete loan closings. (Because I am a full-time mobile [traveling] notary, I will go to anyone for anything from a one-page Living Will to a full buyer-and-seller real estate transaction.) The notaries in your area may have felt it was not worth their time to do a simple escrow document.
iv) Advertising is based on what the seller wants to sell. Mailboxes, Etc. sells convenience, but at their location. When was the last time your TV was serviced at your home?r Most notaries are not mobile because most notaries are employees, and notary work is just part of their businesses' services.
Five) If you want to become a notary, you're not going to earn enough doing simple documents to make a living. You'll be competing with all the other Notary Signing Agents within a 50 mile radius. At least.
Study this Forum, all the complaining and happiness, all the course requirements for your state, all the hardware and software needed (including a computer, high-speed Internet connectivity, and laser printer) and the cost thereof, find the number of NSAs with 50 miles of your hiome, and then do the math. Do _not_ buy into the hype from the companies selling courses and get-rich-quick schemes! You won't make $100,000 in your first six months.
Good luck!
| Reply by Allison B/SCal on 8/2/05 12:11am
Msg #56325
Re: There's more than one issue here!
Ernest is "kinda" right and kinda wrong: Travel is not included in refusing a notarial act/notary service so anyone who said, "no" was acting legally. He is correct about get-rich-quick schemes, but you CAN make $100K a year from becoming a hard-working, awsome marketing, cooler than anyone loan signer. It just takes the right personality and a whole lotta hard work.
Many naysayers here are not suited to the job but they just keep plugging along complaining and blaming the "saturated market". The market Is NOT Saturated -- per capita, there are less notaries public in Calfornia than many other states.
And I do very well with my crummy dial-up because DSL is not available in my area. I can print out electronic docs and by the way, you can still make decent $ signing loans without taking edocs so dont' worry about it.
Sign up with at least 150-200 signing companies and sign as much as you can for a year, at least, before you give up your day job: You'll sign before work, on your lunch, on your way home from work and after dinner and on all weekends and holidays. IT CAN BE DONE if you're comitted (quit your day job that is).
Sign up on the major advertising websites such as this one (Premier membership), 123notary and gomobilenotary. Take a certification course! Become a certified loan signer to increase your calls and as always, I will say poo poo to the NNA and oooorah to notaryclasses dot com. Their ads ARE stupid, but hey, it gets people to listen and that's probably what they want. I could care less -- their instructors are super and practicing, experienced notaries and loan signers.
Read these boards (good advice) here and gomobilenotary dot com but eventually sign up with the only first class website for professional loan signers: The Signing Registry.
And I agree with Ernest: Good Luck
PS Ever think that others tell you the market is flooded just so you dont' get into it???
| Reply by JanetK/CA on 8/2/05 2:53am
Msg #56334
Re: There's more than one issue here!
Just to clarify a couple of points re: California law. First, a CA notary IS allowed to refuse a notarial request if notarizing is a part of their job and they consistently do it only for their employer.
Also, on the second point, there is actually no requirement in CA state notary law that the notary determine the competence of the signer. I was a bit amazed to realize this, but that doesn't mean it isn't a touchy ethical issue.
| Reply by Allison B on 8/2/05 8:37am
Msg #56356
Re: There's more than one issue here!
As for me, I'd rather be involved in a deposition over refusing to notarize a document for a "drooling grandma who thought I was her sister Emily and the year is 1999" then the obvious, "why did you notarize the POA for her when she was a "drooling grandma who thought you were her sister Emily and she thought the year was 1999??"!
| Reply by Just Researching in CA on 8/3/05 11:48pm
Msg #56829
Re: There's more than one issue here!
Thanks for everyone's replies. To point out, this woman is still fully competent and able to make her own decisions. Her grandaughter does have POA, but only in the case that she becomes incompetent. She's no where near that yet. SHe is physically frail...that's why she's moved into an assisted living community. She is a little forgetful but it is mostly short-term stuff. She was fully able to revamp her will, trust and POA paperwork a couple months ago, as well as pass the written CA driver's exam - even though she now has decided to stop driving because she's afraid of causing an accident. In her case, she's not a drooling grandma with advancing dementia. She's a well groomed grandma who is stubborn as the day is long...she just often forgets if she's taken her medication that morning is all. She's in the very early stages...and at age 85, I'd say she's doing really well.
|
|
