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Notarizing a Will or Living Trust in CA
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Notarizing a Will or Living Trust in CA
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Posted by tidarod on 8/25/05 12:30am
Msg #61569

Notarizing a Will or Living Trust in CA

I just had a friend call me to help her with a will. When I read the CA notary book, it says that we should refuse and refer the client the attorney. But if the attorney advises the doc to me notarized then we can do it. Sorry but I am confused. I told her that I can do only if her attorney advises it and is present. Was that the right thing to do?



Reply by AnneSoCa on 8/25/05 1:08am
Msg #61583

You're right, you really are not supposed to notarize a will. I would only do it with an attorney present as well.

Reply by DigitalNotary on 8/25/05 1:51am
Msg #61590

i don't think you need be present with the lawyer to sign the document and just advise them to see the lawyer and it up them to take advise or refuse counseling with the lawyer then you should note on journal stating the facts. I going copy and paste from Notary Public Handbook 2005 The California State Bar advises that when a notary public is asked to notarize a document
which purports to be a will, the notary public should decline and advise the person requesting
the notarization to consult a member of the California State Bar. If an attorney recommends
that the document be notarized, a notary public may do so.

Reply by Harry [NR] on 8/25/05 4:21am
Msg #61596

Re: Notarizing a Will or Living Trust in CA [VERY LONG]

If you read the California statutes pertaining to notaries (nearly all of which are at the back of the handbook), you will not see any reference to wills nor the California Bar. Not to discount the need to properly prepare a will, especially in light of the implications of a having a deficient one, but it seems the advice in question (the Handbook reference), while good and very applicable in most cases, may not apply in all cases and could be interpreted partly as a “plug” for California attorneys.

Consider the fact that there is a lot of adequate software on the market to assist people with the preparation of their own wills. Broderbund's WillWriter Deluxe 2005 is a case in point. If your estate is not overly complex and you're savvy enough to run the application, you're going to pay $29.99 for the software. Of course, here is their caveat:

"This program is not a substitute for the advice of an attorney. This program provides forms and information about the law, and suggestions on how to use the program. The program cannot and does not provide specific advice for your exact situation, and it cannot decide whether the program’s forms are appropriate for you. Because the program cannot decide which forms are best for your individual situation, you must use your own judgment and, to the extent you believe appropriate, the assistance of a lawyer."

Alternatively, if you know exactly what you want but are not comfortable preparing your own will, you can have a Legal Document Assistant do it in California. Like notaries, they CANNOT offer advice, but they can potentially save you a bundle of money in the preparation of many legal documents, wills included.

It seems it really boils down to a judgment call. Unless I’m overlooking something, there are no absolutes. If the requestor is very confident their will has been properly prepared and is insistent on having you notarize, you should consider it. In fact, it MIGHT be your DUTY. Consider this Handbook excerpt:

"...it is the duty of a California notary public to notarize upon request any properly submitted document for any person, upon receipt of applicable fees, anywhere in the State of California."

This is supported by Section 6110 of the Government Code, which states:

"Upon payment of the fees required by law, the officer shall perform the services required. For every failure or refusal to do so, the officer is liable upon his official bond."

While these are simply my opinions, consider this wildly-contrived story:

===================================
Begin Harry’s Fictitious Story *
Life, Love and Duty
===================================


It’s Friday night and Jim is in a severe car accident. Upon regaining consciousness Saturday morning, the doctors tell him he might not survive the weekend due to spleen, liver and kidney damage. Jim has no will and his nearest living relative is his Uncle Bob, on his mother’s side. James, his lifelong companion, has just arrived at the hospital.

Jim, having all of his mental faculties in order, has expressed to the hospital staff that, should he die, he would like to leave his worldly belongings to the one inspiration in his life, the person whom he cares the most about. Using James’ laptop, Jim downloads WillMaker from the Internet and proceeds to prepare his will. James takes the laptop to a nurses’ station and prints the will to a LaserJet using a Bluetooth wireless connection. Jim’s condition is deteriorating rapidly, though his doctor is still of the opinion that his mental health is unaffected and he is thinking with absolute clarity, despite his dire circumstance.

It’s Saturday, and none of the hospital’s on-staff attorneys are working. Jim asks his doctor, Tom, along with the attending resident, Bill, to witness the signing of his will. Dr. Tom suggests to Nurse Mary, Jim’s Critical Care Unit nurse, whom he knows to be a notary, that she perform the notarization - in this case, an oath wherein Jim would swear to the truthfulness of the document and Mary would complete the jurat printed at the bottom of the page. However, Mary refuses because her interpretation of the Handbook is that she is not allowed to notarize a will in the absence of an attorney. Jim dies intestate - without a will - on Saturday afternoon, just as James finishes dialing the seventh attorney’s phone number in the Yellow Pages.

When Jim’s estate reaches probate, it is determined that his net worth of $1,367,432.21 - mostly in the form of retirement savings and securities investments, along with a small number of family heirlooms - will ALL go to his uncle, Bob, who happens to be an unemployed former Enron accountant. James sues, claiming that Jim’s express wishes were that the estate be left to him. The money is held in trust pending the court’s decision.

One year, three months, and twenty-three days later, after the taking of 37 depositions of friends, very distant relatives, and hospital staff, the court decides in favor of Uncle Bob. As it turns out, Uncle Bob raised Jim from the time he was seven and was able to establish for the court that he was liked by Jim and, in fact, could have been Jim’s “one inspiration.” After careful review of hospital staff depositions, the court determined that Jim never spoke the name of his one inspiration and that, having much to gain, James could have conceivably changed the will at the nurses’ station. They had no choice but to rule in favor of Uncle Bob in consideration of intestate rules.

Six more months pass. James finally finds the courage to clean…to collect Jim’s belongings from their apartment with hopes of restoring his shattered life. He finds a small bronze key. It’s to a safe deposit box at the local Bank and Trust. James rushes to the box, thinking all the while about what it could possibly contain. Keepsakes? Memories? The first letter he’d ever written to Jim, some 35 years ago?

The box opens. A will. A long forgotten will. Twenty-six years old and slightly yellowed of age. Absolute, indisputable proof. Witnessed. Notarized.

The ensuing legal confrontation was for naught. In six short months, Uncle Bob had lost the entire estate in a series of ill-conceived investments in a variety of fictitious off-shore companies. He was flat broke.

Two remaining questions: Who is left to blame and who is left to sue?
===================================
End Harry’s Fictitious Story
===================================

* Notice: I am not an attorney and this is not legal advice. This story is fiction and all characters are products of my very tired (at this hour) imagination.


In my opinion, the bottom line is that refusal in all cases (at the request of the Bar) is probably not the right approach. It depends on the circumstance. In all cases, extreme care should be taken and your notary LAWS should be followed. In no case should you give legal advice. If the requestor has questions or you sense uncertainty, reluctance, or anything else that could be interpreted as lack of understanding or willingness, then you would have no choice but to refuse to notarize.

Again, just my $0.02 (or $1.32 as long as this ended up).

Harry
Notary Rotary, Inc.


Reply by Customer Service United States Notary Association on 8/25/05 9:12am
Msg #61618

Who's to blame. . .

. . .if we must point the finger, how about at the poor heroes of the story, Jim and James, who apparently both forgot they already had a legitimate will.

Reply by Teasa Mahar on 8/25/05 10:25am
Msg #61632

Re: Notarizing a Will or Living Trust in CA [VERY LONG]

Harry, I'm not from CA but so interesting. Are you an attorney? If not, maybe you should have, or a paralegal at least. (ha ha) I think this really drives home how important it is to have a will and to be sure someone (or many) knows where all legal documents are. My mother had her will drawn up by an attorney that passed away and when we tried to get it, it was lost. I lean more toward a saftey deposit box or just a plain old safe at home and make sure family members know where it is. Very interesting CA dilema.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 8/25/05 2:18pm
Msg #61737

Re: Notarizing a Will or Living Trust in CA [VERY LONG]

Harry, SUCH a good point. My CA notary handbook has the statement that for wills, AT THE REQUEST OF THE BAR ASSOCIATION, the notary should refer the individual to an attorney. This is a protective measure for the Bar association, and the SOS has gone along with it. During my first notary class, even the instructor made a few jokes about the power of the state bar association.

That hospital notary in your ficticious story had been well brainwashed by that statement.

***In my opinion, the bottom line is that refusal in all cases (at the request of the Bar) is probably not the right approach***

That is my opinion as well, I am always bothered when a notary takes their commission to the point of either stopping (or greatly delaying) the course of business, or in the case of this story, caused a terrible thing to happen that could have been avoided if she had used her head and understood the purpose and intent of her commission.


 
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