Posted by TN Notary on 8/10/05 11:24am
Msg #58041

Realtors

Are you still in the selling homes? Can you do both sell homes and be a signing agent?

Reply by wendy_wa on 8/10/05 11:33am
Msg #58045

as long as the transactions are entirely seperate
you can not notarize a transaction or the docs for a borrower in which you will be otherwise paid a commission for the sale
you can not close your own clients
it is a conflict of interest

Reply by Paul_IL on 8/10/05 12:34pm
Msg #58061

Wendy's advice may not be true in every state. NM

Reply by wendy_wa on 8/10/05 1:51pm
Msg #58092

Re: Wendy's advice may not be true in every state. NM

that is quite possibly true. I am a licensed Realtor in CA, NV and NE as well as a notary also in WA. For each of those states, it is considered a conflict of interest even if it is not illegal. If you are being paid a commission to sell a property or procure a property for a buyer and then close the loan as their notary, you have bias. One might think it would be easier somehow, in theory you have already established their identity, and have built rapport so they may trust you and be more comfortable with you.... However, our job as a loan closer or even witness is to be impartial. Being paid in conjuction with the transaction for services other then the witness closing itself becomes a conflict of interest. In a circumstance for example where something might be other then what the borrower was expecting (in terms of the loan) - we, as notaries have no (or should have no) inclination to encourage the borrower to do something other then what is in their best interest. AS DETERMINED BY THEM. We are not allowed to offer advise or anything. However, if there were a large commission coming then one might have more interest in pursuading the borrower to go ahead...

Reply by Paul_IL on 8/10/05 2:29pm
Msg #58103

Re: Wendy's advice may not be true in every state. NM

Actually there is No conflict of interest as long as Full Disclosure is done.
It is not your place as a notary signing agent to encourage the borrowers at all. Since when have you been at a purchase closing where the terms of the loan were anything different than what was agreed upon. If you as a Realtor let your client get to the closing table without them having seen the terms of their loan then you are not doing your job as their agent.

You as a notary closer have absolutely No responsibility to comment on the terms of the loan and should not be giving any advice as to the terms of their loan. Your large commission argument is without merit or should be as your responsibility to your client comes before your commission as to do other wise would be an ethics violation.

FYI I am a Real Estate Broker and Title Agent in IL and have been in the business since 1989

Reply by wendy_wa on 8/11/05 10:40pm
Msg #58459

Re: Wendy's advice may not be true in every state. NM

I was by no means saying that I personally would advocate offering opinions to borrowers as their notary- that is my point exactly. That the conflict lies with those persons who are not ethical and would. It would be very poor service for a realtor to have a borrower be unadvised to the terms of their loan (although that is more for them to discuss w/ their LO then Realtor), however, as is often the case - things change between the GFE and the actual closing table. The amount of the commission was never in argument, I think you misunderstood my point. As a professional, ethical, notary - I would never offer my opinion. However, were someone being paid in conjunction with the FUNDING of the loan (ie: realtor, LO, etc.) - they might have more motivation to cross that line. My argument in not that it is illegal, only that it could very easily a conflict of interest. If you are the LO or the Realtor and the Notary - which hat are you wearing and when. I would question why anyone would put themselves in this type of situation when it is easier to allow someone else to close the loan if you are representing the buyer as their LO or Realtor. It just covers your butt for the future.

Reply by wendy_wa on 8/11/05 10:40pm
Msg #58460

Re: Wendy's advice may not be true in every state. NM

I was by no means saying that I personally would advocate offering opinions to borrowers as their notary- that is my point exactly. That the conflict lies with those persons who are not ethical and would. It would be very poor service for a realtor to have a borrower be unadvised to the terms of their loan (although that is more for them to discuss w/ their LO then Realtor), however, as is often the case - things change between the GFE and the actual closing table. The amount of the commission was never in argument, I think you misunderstood my point. As a professional, ethical, notary - I would never offer my opinion. However, were someone being paid in conjunction with the FUNDING of the loan (ie: realtor, LO, etc.) - they might have more motivation to cross that line. My argument in not that it is illegal, only that it could very easily a conflict of interest. If you are the LO or the Realtor and the Notary - which hat are you wearing and when. I would question why anyone would put themselves in this type of situation when it is easier to allow someone else to close the loan if you are representing the buyer as their LO or Realtor. It just covers your butt for the future.

Reply by SoCalMisty on 8/10/05 1:41pm
Msg #58086

I am both a Realtor and a Signing Agent and it is true here in California.

Reply by Charles_CA on 8/10/05 1:47pm
Msg #58089

I am a Realtor and specialize in commercial real estate in California. I am also a Notary and certified signing agent. I have no problems keeping my roles straight and neither do the others I know in the same situation.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 8/10/05 2:53pm
Msg #58113

Re: Realtors - So Cal Misty

I'm remembering that my agent in a purchase 10 years ago also closed my loan. She would have definitely had a conflict of interest as she was making a 3% commission.

So...she shouldn't have signed me? I'm not sure if you were saying it was or wasn't 'okay in California'....

Seems like everybody is getting in the act lately...brokers assistants with no training, RE agents without closing experience, receptionists, the janitor in my office just got his notary commission after he heard the radio ad on KFI... hehe.

Reply by CaSigner on 8/10/05 3:07pm
Msg #58122

"Seems like everybody..."

so did the guy who just replaced the windshield in my car. So he's a mobile notary AND a mobile winshield repair guy. You have to laugh

Reply by TitleGalCA on 8/10/05 3:08pm
Msg #58124

LOL CaSigner! It's getting almost laughable! N/M

Reply by Merry_CA on 8/10/05 5:56pm
Msg #58163

Re: Realtors - So Cal Misty

OK... so now I'm confused. Is Misty or Charles correct? I am also a mortgage loan agent and a NSA. As a NSA I must not have a "financial interest" in the property for which I am witnessing signatures and I.D.ing the borrowers. As a mortgage loan agent I have no "financial interest" in the borrower's property. A commission is not (as I understand it) a "financial interest" in the property.

Reply by John_NorCal on 8/10/05 9:45pm
Msg #58203

Re: Realtors - So Cal Misty

Unless things have changed that much since 1974, I would say there is no conflict of interest. Back then it was established by the Cal Assoc of Realtors and the SOS that receiving a commission on a sale was not cause to establish a financial interest as would an equity interest in said property. I notarized and closed quite a few of my loans and sales.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 8/10/05 10:01pm
Msg #58210

Re: Realtors - So Cal Misty

Thx for that info - if you think it through, tho...it seem to me like it would be a conflict.

It's in the best interest of the agent that the loan closes...they earn their commission...therefore they have an interest in the transaction. Seems logical...

I understand it wouldn't constitute an equity interest in the property, but an agent will certainly benefit from the closing.

Far be it from me to argue with CAR, pretty powerful group in California.