Posted by lindetteh on 8/30/05 7:26pm
Msg #62723

SS card as ID

I Have been a signing agent for over 4 years and I Was just on PAN and there are many notaries saying that a ss card is suffient Id to close a loan I have always required Valid Gov Issued Photo Id please tell me if Im wrong and provide me with a reference if I am Id like to read it and if Im write I'd like to pass it on to Notaries on the PAN site I Thought the Patriot Act Required Photo Id

Reply by Leslie_Mo on 8/30/05 7:29pm
Msg #62724

What is PAN?

Reply by corona71 on 8/30/05 7:32pm
Msg #62726

no, Social Security cards are not acceptable I.D. Also, it is very hard to read what you wrote when you use no punctuations. Please people, review what you write before you hit the post button.

Reply by Teri_PA on 8/30/05 7:45pm
Msg #62731

Don't know what state you are from, but if you are from PA which is what the question alludes to, the answer is in the PA Notary Law as amended in 2002.

Reply by corona71 on 8/30/05 7:49pm
Msg #62733

No, I am from Ca, but in Pa. how can it be acceptable i.d. there if there is no photo or physical description? There is no satisfactory evidence in a S.S card.

Reply by Teri_PA on 8/31/05 5:18pm
Msg #63013

PA notary law says it is acceptable. There are many laws throughout this country which may or may not be logical to someone else. However, we have the freedom to request more- and I do so---until I am satisfied that the person is who they say they are. The latitude the SS card provides is in vesting issues, where so frequently individuals change their names on the DL and no longer have current id in a maiden name where title was held. The ss card provides the latitude legally for me to notarize in this case since that is usually one of the last items an individual gets around to changing when they change their names.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 9/1/05 4:50pm
Msg #63355

I've noticed that recently (past 6 months or so), lenders are NOT accepting the use of a Social Security card for identification purposes. The two most common fake ID's are SS cards and voter registration cards. Anyone with a decent printer can make these cards such that it is very difficult to know the valid ones from the invalid ones. Therefore, lenders are no longer accepting them for use in the identification process. To validate SS numbers, there is a form that the borrower signs that allows the lender to request validation of the number from the Social Security Administration. If you haven't seen these forms, I'd be betting dollars to donuts, you will in the not-so-distant future.

Reply by Teri_PA on 9/2/05 10:22am
Msg #63478

I don't believe the original question pertained to lenders accepting SS as id but rather PA notary law on the legality of utilizing a SS card as id for notarization purposes. As I mentioned numerous times, a prudent notary would not accept the SS card alone, but rather as a supplement to other identification which may be expired or not valid for notarization purposes in the state of PA.

Reply by Teri_PA on 8/30/05 7:46pm
Msg #62732

Pennsylvania Association of Notaries

Reply by Becca_FL on 8/30/05 7:36pm
Msg #62727

First, try your State manual for an answer. Second, not in Florida or many other states, as far as I know.

Reply by Dave_CA on 8/30/05 7:42pm
Msg #62729

Not valid for primary ID in CA.

Reply by Teri on 8/30/05 7:43pm
Msg #62730

For those who asked- PAN is the Pennsylvania Association of Notaries. Yes, according to PA Law as revised by Act 151 of 2002, a social security card is a valid form of id. If you refer to Sec 12.1 as amended in 2002, "satisfactory evidence" is defined as "reliance on the presentation of a current, government- issued identification card bearing a photograph, signature OR physical description and serial and identification number,or the oath or affirmation of a credible witness....." That said, I do not rely on a social security card alone as a form of id, but will use it with a government issued photo id when there are problems in id (such as title held by Jane Adams Doe and Drivers License shows name as JA Doe- I can use the social security card as the valid form of satisfactory evidence which will allow me to notarize Jane Adams Doe)

Reply by CaliNotary on 8/31/05 1:18am
Msg #62793

I disagree with you Teri

Based on the law you quoted, I would say that clearly states that a social security card cannot be used. For one thing, it is not a government-issued identification card, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread.

Second, the phrase "bearing a photograph, signature OR physical description and serial and identification number" means that it has to have all of these items (the only optional part being either a signature or physical description), one of which must be a photograph, which a ss card obviously doesn't have.

Think about it logically from a notarizing standpoint, why on earth would any state allow a non photo ID to be used for identification? The opportunity for fraud would be unlimited.

Reply by Teri_PA on 8/31/05 6:17am
Msg #62807

Re: I disagree with you Teri

You have the right to disagree- However, I am in PA and you are not and know PA notary law quite well. PAN (The PA association of notaries) has cited a social security card as acceptable ID, as well as a vehicle registration card, voters registration, etc. in the training courses. Further, the Commonwealth's Department of State has further commented that the social security card is an acceptable form of id. Thus, your interpretation of the law is based on your interpretation, and I can appreciate that, but again, you are not in PA, and I think this thread should be reserved for PA notaries. Further, without knowing the culture here, you cannot comment. I have had many instances with Amish and Mennonite individuals who DO NOT have photo ids as it is against their religion. Are you telling me I should discriminate against those individual's and not notarize. Pennsylvania's law has provided for the ability to use a photograph, signature, OR PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION (which is what I see for orthodox Mennonites and Amish on their PA gov't issued id cards - note...No DL's here--since these individuals do not drive)...concurrent with a unique identifying number.
So, yes, unless a social security card can be used...and again, I reiterate that I would not use it alone, since I further have the responsibility to be comfortable that the person is who they say they are.
I would welcome support from other PA notaries only!

Reply by CaliNotary on 8/31/05 1:44pm
Msg #62920

Re: I disagree with you Teri

"I would welcome support from other PA notaries only!"

"without knowing the culture here, you cannot comment"

This is a public message board, you don't get to pick and choose who responds to your posts.

Reply by Teri_PA on 8/31/05 3:04pm
Msg #62966

Re: I disagree with you Teri

Which is why I so seldom post unless I believe I have something factual to respond to the original requestor. I really hate to see incorrect information disseminated to people.

Reply by Marlene_USNA on 8/31/05 10:04am
Msg #62831

Re: PA law interpreted. . .

. . .as "... photograph OR signature OR physical description AND serial OR identification number ..."

An example of legislative intent derailed by a comma.

So a govt-issued ID card without a photo can be used - many Amish, for example, carry govt-issued, non-photo ID cards. Not logical perhaps, but legal. Would I accept one for notarization purposes? You bet, I have to.

Your comment about the SS card not being a government-issued *identification* card is something we'll toss around here at the office - interesting, maybe we can find some law stating specifically that it is not an ID card. Yes, it's printed on it now that it is not to be used for identification purposes, but one could argue that it identifies the holder to the SS system. It bears a signature and an identification number, so it meets the criteria according to PA notary law.

Reply by Barry Silver on 8/30/05 9:23pm
Msg #62747

SS card as ID should never be used as ID

As far as the Social Security Administration is concerned, the Social Security card is not to be used as identification.

Social Security Administration

When did Social Security cards bear the legend "NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION"?
The first Social Security cards were issued starting in 1936 and did not have this language.
SSA’s policy is that the Social Security card is not an identity document. The card only verifies that the SSN on the card is assigned to an individual whose name is on the card. It does not verify that the person presenting the card is the person named on the card.
Therefore, the January 1946 version of the card first contained the language at the bottom of the card reading "FOR SOCIAL SECURITY PURPOSES -- NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION." Then the language was changed beginning with the September 1961 version of the card to read: "FOR SOCIAL SECURITY AND TAX PURPOSES – NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION”. However, the language was removed beginning with the January 1972 version of the card because it was confusing to employers and others who viewed it because they were not sure whether to accept it as evidence of the individual’s SSN. The language has not been on subsequent versions of the card.

Reply by lindetteh on 8/30/05 10:03pm
Msg #62760

Re: SS card as ID should never be used as ID

Thank you all for responding and giving me the reference points to look at