Posted by Mary_PA on 8/22/05 10:00am
Msg #60733

Signatures

I had a signing on Saturday where the borrower was signing his name (ex J. Doe instead of John Doe as it was on all the docs, I asked him to sign his full name no initials. and he explained that was his legal signature J. Doe. So I asked him to please sign as it shows on all the docs (his full name). Should I have done a signature affidavit?

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/22/05 10:03am
Msg #60737

No, it is not up to us to decide on Signature/Name affidavits, if the company requires on it would be in the package.

Reply by Nd_WA on 8/22/05 10:08am
Msg #60740

You did your job letting the borrower know of the requirement. I never had any loan rejected b/c the borrower didn't sign as instructed.

Reply by Anonymous on 8/22/05 11:16am
Msg #60769

Nice.....thats a test question from Reeves Hary!!! Unreal how people tend to cheat and just cant take the test for themselves.....

Reply by Anonymous on 8/22/05 11:21am
Msg #60770

THAT WAS TEST QUESTION #8 FROM REEVES HARY QUIZ

Please check back and let us know if you got this question correct or if you were able to pass the test.....

Reply by Mary_PA on 8/22/05 1:47pm
Msg #60803

Who _ _ _ _ is Reeves what ever. Maybe you have been cheating on tests and think that everyone else is like you. That's why you use anonymous...........................

Reply by Jan on 8/22/05 7:13pm
Msg #60892

Does anyone work for Reeves Hary, I got a call from them 2 years ago, I couldn't do the signing but later took the test and passed and haven't heard from them since.

Reply by CarolynCO on 8/22/05 10:04am
Msg #60738

Re: I would have insisted he sign as docs appeared. n/m

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 8/22/05 10:16am
Msg #60747

Re: I would have insisted he sign as docs appeared. n/m

I've had that happen also. The borrower said "this is how I sign my name numerous times a day. This is how I signed on our last loan. This is how I sign". I let him know what was required. He did his thing. So I just called the lender and gave them a heads up and everything turned out fine. I did what I was supposed to do and would have been happy to go out again. The borrowers were very nice.

Reply by Art_MD on 8/22/05 10:27am
Msg #60748

what I tell them re: how they sign

When borrower says "thats the way I always sign", I simple say "that may be true, but that is not your legal name. These are legal documents and must be signed as typed. If not, your loan proceeds may be delayed. Your choice." If they insist on not signing as typed, that's their problem and I include a note with the docs.

Art

Reply by Brenda_CO on 8/22/05 10:45am
Msg #60760

Re: what I tell them re: how they sign

I did a sheet on the computer that says in huge print: Attention Borrowers: please sign your name as exactly as listed in the documents! I sit that on top of the package when I place it on the table. I haven't had a problem with it since I started doing that.

Reply by Art_MD on 8/22/05 10:46am
Msg #60761

great Idea !! N/M

Reply by Jenny/CA on 8/22/05 10:51am
Msg #60764

Re: great Idea !! , Ditto! n/m

Reply by Hampton/CA on 8/22/05 11:25am
Msg #60773

The great "legal signature" debate

Ultimately, there's no such thing as a "legal signature". There's no government agency or data base (yet) that you must register your signature. Everybody gets to sign their name as they please.

I'm sure we've all seen squiggle signatures with all kinds of lines and swirls that look nothing like the typed name. So I tell my signers that they need to sign their name as it's printed. I further tell them that it's not a penmanship session, so they can sign however they customarily sign their name, as long as it represents their name as it is pre-printed on the docs.

And I've seen everything. Lines, bumps, grooves.... you name it, I've seen it, as I'm sure we all have. And I've never had a loan come back because of it. In fact, I did an in-house signing in which the signer just slaughtered the signature. It looked nothing like his name. I showed the EO the docs and told her that's how he signs his name as it's printed.

"Works for me," she said as she took the docs and tossed them into her IN basket. The loan funded (as they all do) and everybody got paid.

So the moral of my rambling post is to stop worrying about it. Tell them to sign their name as it is pre-printed and that however they sign, it needs to represent the printed name.

Reply by Hampton/CA on 8/22/05 11:29am
Msg #60775

And further more (or "and before anybody jumps all over me")

Let's say the signer customarily signs with a slaughtered signature and has done so for years and/or on a previous DOT. If you insist that he sign in a different manner (such as readable) and it doesn't match the previous signature on the previous DOT, you're going to get a call from Title who got a call from the recorder because the signatures don't match.

I did have that happen once. They took care of it by having me fax them a copy of my journal.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 8/22/05 12:32pm
Msg #60797

Re: The great "legal signature" debate - What FL SOS says ..

In Florida, the law is very broad when it comes to the definition of a signature. Almost any mark or method is allowed as long as the signer declares that to be his/her authorized signature. For example, a legal signature may be made by a mark, a rubber stamp, or another person who is directed by the signer to sign his/her name.

When notarizing in these circumstances, you should take every precaution to protect the integrity of the document, the signer, and yourself. The signer must physically appear before you to take the oath or make the acknowledgment, produce adequate identification, and "sign" the document in your presence. As the Notary, you must ensure the signer's willingness and mental capacity to execute the document, perform the notarial act, and complete the notarial certificate. We also recommend that two unbiased witnesses be present for the signing of the document and that you alter the notarial certificate language to reflect the special circumstances of the signing. Additionally, if you keep a journal or recordbook of notarial acts, you should make notes about this unusual notarization.

Florida law now provides specific instructions for notarizing for a person who signs by mark or for a person with a disability who directs the Notary or another person to sign for him/her. The Governor's Notary Section has printed instructions for notarizing in these situations.

Reply by Art_MD on 8/22/05 1:04pm
Msg #60799

Re: signature on license was a drawing of a flower

Actual closing - checking ID first thing. Told borrower he had to sign ID statement and I had to see his license. Lo and Behold... his signature on his license was a picture of a six pedal flower. I had to see other ID to check signature !!!!

Art

Reply by Mike/CA on 8/22/05 2:55pm
Msg #60833

Re: Did you say HIS signature? n/m

Reply by TitleGalCA on 8/22/05 10:02pm
Msg #60939

Hampton and PAW are right...

and never have had loans not fund due to slaughtered signatures.

have you ever seen Donald Trumps sig? It looks like a 8.0 earthquake on the Richter scale.

Reply by Mike/CA on 8/22/05 2:53pm
Msg #60832

Re: the undersign smell test...

Hampton is completely correct. For illegible signatures it is the intention that is important. If the borrower intended their scibbleage to represent the name as it appears on the docs then all is good.

HOWEVER, if it's legible and not signed correctly, then you need to demand that they make it correspond to how it's typed.

1st Rule of Undersigning: It has to be fairly obvious. If it's so illegible that it's not an obvious undersign, then who's to say it is?

2nd Rule of Undersigning: Don't talk about undersigning! Oh wait, that's Fight Club. Never mind.

Reply by LawrenceOK on 8/23/05 10:00am
Msg #61020

Re: the undersign smell test...

Sorry Mike, but we can NOT demand they do anything. I have had more then one borrower insist that that IS their legal signature and THAT IS the way they are going to sign. Not a darn thing we can do about.

Reply by Joan-OH on 8/22/05 2:46pm
Msg #60831

A few month ago I was called by borrowers who signed purchase docs the week before. Lender/Title was sending them a redraw because of a signature problem. Both were Asian doctors and Mrs. Doctor had one of those 5 name Asian names (Grandmothers, Mothers, etc). They needed a notary.

When I showed up they showed me their signature affidavit that Countrywide had faxed over to them. Her signature was as you would expect....a Doctor's signature - not legible. There was no way to tell if all 5 names had been used. The previous notary had her sign the sig affidavit, then told her she HAD to sign EXACTLY as typed throughout the rest of the documents. Well, it clearly did not match her sig affidavit, her license, or any of the predisclosures she had sent back earlier.

Countrywide wanted the same scrawl on the docs as it was in the signature affidavit. When I see a scrawl I always ask "Does that say Mary Louise Patterson?" If they say yes, I go from there.

So, sometimes, telling the borrower to sign just as typed and by doing so, it in no way matches the signature on their ID, could be the wrong thing (I know that is a terrible sentence!).

I believe the "sign as typed" means rather than sign "Mary Patterson", sign "Mary Louise Patterson" and it really seems to only make a difference if it's legible.

Joan-OH

Reply by MsRobbo on 8/22/05 8:20pm
Msg #60909

Most people use the same signature no matter what is printed on the docs. In PA the signature is on the driver's license so that is what I use for comparison. The biggest problem I have are borrower's who need to sign with a middle initial and can't remember to to that or they just use their legal signature and say that their middle initial is in there. If a signature aff is needed that is up to the title co.

Reply by Mary_PA on 8/22/05 9:58pm
Msg #60938

I did get him to sign the way that it was on the docs. I also told him that if he prefers to sign his way then next time he refi's to let the lender know of his signature.

Reply by Renee/MI on 8/23/05 4:38am
Msg #60980

The primary 'key' to this whole signature issue is that the borrower's signature should remain consistant on every document. If his hand is very legible, and it appears to read as if it is "under-signed" (looks like "J. Doe" and printed name is "John Doe") - as long as he doesn't have any variation on any document (meaning - if he changes his mark to what appears to read "John Doe"), then there is no authority who can argue that HIS 'mark' for "John Doe" does NOT stand for "John Doe".

Rather that trying to become that 'authority' who deciphers his mark, it is crucial that his mark remain consistant. Like an algebra equation - if "X" equals "John R. Doe", fine. If one page shows up with "Y" trying to equal the same thing - THAT causes the issue.