Posted by AngelinaAZ on 8/3/05 6:09pm
Msg #56729

State Question????

I know that in my state it is not legal but does anybody know of any state where it is OK to send notarized unattached certificates of acks or jurats? In other words... would it be OK anywhere to (fill out this ack and include it in case there are any mistakes)...

I am getting REALLY sick of these requests and I'm wondering if anybody does it? Is it OK in any state?

Reply by Roger/OH on 8/3/05 6:52pm
Msg #56744

Don't EVER send a blank ack with your seal on it!! You have no idea what someone might attach to it.

Reply by Anonymous on 8/3/05 7:04pm
Msg #56747

Same here angelina, don't ever send one in. In texas we have to fill in what it is for, so we would make them send us the document, and then attach it ourselves.

Reply by BrendaTX on 8/3/05 7:13pm
Msg #56751

Re: State Question???? Another one...

What about the question on "can I certify a copy of a birth certificate."?

I am not necessarily sick of it, but it is one of those questions where I wonder can ANY notary certify a ocpy of a birth certifcate? or any other recordable document for that matter?

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 8/3/05 7:24pm
Msg #56755

Don't you just love these?

In AZ we can't certify a copy of a recordable document. I don't think you can anywhere. I'm with you in that I'd like to know if any Notary can.

Hey, how come you don't get replies like... "Brenda... you must never certify a copy of a recordable document!"

I need to stick to jokes and the search button... I think I'd fare better!

Reply by BrendaTX on 8/3/05 7:53pm
Msg #56767

Re: Don't you just love these?

>>Hey, how come you don't get replies like... "Brenda... you must never certify a copy of a recordable document!" <<

Angelina, Mister Hugh once told me that no one messes with me because I write too dam* much in my replies and it was just a pita to sort through.

Boy, that put me in my place. Yeah, sure...you betcha.
================

TO: TitLegal, if you could point me to that post we discussed earlier...I would be much obliged. Post, write, email...send a homing pidgeon. I'll be watching.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 8/3/05 8:23pm
Msg #56776

Fr TitLegal-gotta go back thru threads-pidgeon to come n/m

Reply by PAW_Fl on 8/3/05 9:54pm
Msg #56796

Re: Don't you just love these?

It really isn't a question of whether the document is "recordable" (you can make a certified copy of a deed after it is record, for example, if you are allowed to make certified copies, that is), but you can only make a copy of an _original_ document. Birth certificates are essentially "certified copies" of the registration of birth, not an original document. So the person only has a copy himself. Now a passport, on the other hand, is "issued" as an original document to the holder. Thus, the document custodian has an original, and if you are allowed to make certified copies, then you could in fact, make a certified copy of a passport.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 8/3/05 10:17pm
Msg #56805

PAW???

In my state it IS a question of whether it is recordable. I am allowed to make certified copies but...

"Arizona Notaries are prohibited from certifying copies of recordable documents, such as deeds. A document does not have to be recorded, but merely recordable for the Notary to be prohibited from making a certified copy.

Arizona Notaries are expressly prohibited from certifying copies of birth, death or marraige certificates, or divorce decrees because these are vital public records. Only officials in a bureau of vital statistics or other public record office may certify originals or copies of such certificates."

This is from the 2004 Arizona Notary Law Handbook

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/4/05 12:58am
Msg #56839

Re: PAW???

This was the best I could do on short notice....same thing here....

(List fees and expenses to include postage)


CERTIFIED COPY OF A NON-RECORDABLE DOCUMENT



State of Texas
County of _______________

On this __________ day of __________, (year), I certify that the preceding or attached document, and the duplicate retained by me as a notarial record, are true, exact, complete, and unaltered photocopies made by me of (description of document), presented to me by the document's custodian, _______________, (*held in my custody as a notarial record) and that, to the best of my knowledge, the photocopied document is neither a public record nor a publicly recordable document, certified copies of which are available from an official source other than a notary.


______________________
Notary Public's Signature
(Personalized Seal)


*This phrase would be inserted and the proceeding phrase, "presented to me by the document's custodian", would be deleted in the event a person was requesting a certified copy of the Notary Public's journal.



PS - Paul - Put on some turquoise and brush up on your Southwestern notary rules this week...leave all those Easterners to their own devices...Angelina and I have certificate copy rules to parse out with you!

Reply by PAW_Fl on 8/4/05 1:20pm
Msg #56923

WoW!!

That means you can't make certified copies of POA's either. I understand that you can't make a certified copy of a "recordED" document, since the holder would only have a copy of the instrument and not the original. I really am surprised at the actual wording in AZ. It just shows to go you that each state is different in what a notary can and cannot do.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 8/4/05 1:40pm
Msg #56926

Re: FYI certified copies of recorded documents

For what it's worth...if any of you don't know it already...certified copies of recorded documents are always available through the county recorder's office; they certify it to be a "true copy of the original" and can be requested (by anyone) through their recorder's office as long as they have the book and page, and or date and instrument number.

Sorry if I'm stating the obvious - just a "FYI".

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 8/3/05 7:21pm
Msg #56754

I'm gonna do it!

Come on guys... do me a favor and read the question again!

DUH!! I would NEVER do it. I am asking this because I want to know if it is OK anywhere?

For instance... I lose alot of respect for lenders that specifically ask this. I have to ask myself if they really believe that it is OK... or if they KNOW how wrong it is. Random Example: The Lender is based in X-State and in X-State it is OK so they think it is OK everywhere. This is a company integrity question... and I would almost feel better knowing that somewhere it is acceptable practice.

Reply by BrendaTX on 8/3/05 7:28pm
Msg #56756

Re: I'm gonna do it! - Uh oh!!! you better not!!!!

Psyche!!!

Angelina - you do know that I was saying the same thing about a cc of a birth cert, right?

Like, why do these questions come up anywhere?

Can we get a bulletic board stuck over

-The Library Tab -

to say

You cannot send out an unattached certificate.
ANYWHERE.

?

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 8/3/05 7:41pm
Msg #56758

Re: I'm gonna do it! - Uh oh!!! you better not!!!!

Yes... I totally know you were saying the same thing.

I was just joking because when I ask a question about...A I feel like I get people answering question...B (not from you darlin'.... from OH and Anon)

I don't know if it is the way I type or if people just read too fast... but back to the question... why do these companies do it... even the REALLY BIG reputable ones? I must admit... when the request comes so 'professionally' it lends credability to it. Have any sweet notary babes been 'instructed' into the land of 'legal no no's' because they think to themselves "the lender wouldn't ever ask me to do something that wasn't right.... right?"

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 8/3/05 7:48pm
Msg #56762

OMG Brenda... I am cracking up...

We are totally talking about two different things. I wasn't irritated with the questions from the notaries on this subject... I am sick of requests from the Lenders!

I had one today in a very professional letter from a BIG lender asking me to 'Please complete the attached loose certificate,notarize it and return it with the package... It will be used in conjuction with these loan documents if you do not complete one of your notorial certificates correctly'.

It really bugs me! If it is not OK anywhere... at any time... why do they ask? Don't they WANT us to have integrity?

Reply by Charm_AL on 8/3/05 7:51pm
Msg #56763

Re: OMG Brenda... I am cracking up...

I'll tell you why...because just as sure as there are SA's accepting $50. e-docs and fax backs, there are those whom will also backdate or fill out loose acks. It's a shame, but nonetheless, true.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 8/3/05 7:56pm
Msg #56768

I agree....

I definately agree about the SA's... but in regards to the Lender... you would think that THEY would want Notaries that DO NOT COMPROMISE.

Hey if I'm gonna break that law... I may just overlook an expired ID too... or let an ID that says John P. Jones sign for John P. Jones Jr. .... once the line is crossed it begins to blur. I would not want Notaries that bend the rules doing signings for my financial institution!

Reply by CaliNotary on 8/3/05 7:53pm
Msg #56766

Re: OMG Brenda... I am cracking up...

"It really bugs me! If it is not OK anywhere... at any time... why do they ask? Don't they WANT us to have integrity?"

They only want us to have integrity as long as it doesn't inconvenience them. A lot of companies think nothing of bending the rules a little bit (or a lot, hello AMERIQUEST) to get thier loans pushed through, so they don't think it's a big deal for us to do it either.

I can guarantee you that when most of them think of the documents having to be notarized, it doesn't go beyond "it needs a stamp" in their minds. They don't care what it means to be notarized, only that it's done.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 8/3/05 8:10pm
Msg #56771

Cali... you are smashing my rose colored glasses again!

**I can guarantee you that when most of them think of the documents having to be notarized, it doesn't go beyond "it needs a stamp" in their minds. They don't care what it means to be notarized, only that it's done.**

You have just whacked Lenders in general right off the pedestal I had them on in my mind.

Reply by CaliNotary on 8/4/05 3:11am
Msg #56844

Re: Cali... you are smashing my rose colored glasses again!

You said whacked off. Heheheheheheheheheh.

Reply by Anonymous on 8/4/05 9:04am
Msg #56867

Now, Now. No more self-abuse