Posted by TCMN on 8/3/05 12:22pm
Msg #56639

THIS TICKS ME OFF-----So I have this SS call and ask


...if I could do a signing that was in a town 17 miles from me and wants me to do a refi with docs overnighted for $50. Well, I know this town takes me 45 mins to get to (and I drive fast) so it has to be about 60 miles away. I tell her, no can do, I don't do refi's for less than $100 and it had to be closer than that (unless it's a CitiBank heloc do I go below the $100 and take $75 for those in my area). But I tell her I'll see how far that really is when I get in front of my computer and call her back ( I want to see what BULL she's trying to shovel my way).

So I call her back and she says...hey I found another closer. Well, I know that there are few notaries in that area and I'm generally closest, so I say "really?, good." She says to me, Yeah, I just started calling the Real Estate office around there until I got a broker who said they would do it for $50.

What the hell? What a joke. Well folks...theres another reason there's such a bad taste in the industries mouths about notaries...they take whatever they can get and don't care if the person doing the signing knows what they are REALLY supposed to do or are even in the industry (and I'm sorry, I AM a REALTOR AND there is a difference from sitting at a closing table with your buyer or seller listening (if your even a realtor that does - I do) than actually DOING the closing.

If that's not a reason to tell all these SS's who are offering "bottom-of-the-barrel" fees, I don't know what is.

Can you notaries and or signing agents out there PLEASE stop taking the $40, $50, or even $60 signing that are NOT a good business decision in ANY circumstance? (you can make more doing something else and get medical benefits ANYWHERE else if you truely want to work)

Start thinking "higher" of yourselves and giving yourself the respect you deserve for putting the time in to educating yourselves in this career path and maybe then you'll get the calls from the companies that are respectable and offer you their work. This is so frustrating. I don't know why any of you think these companies are worth such low pay, but here is a good example as to why they aren't and could give a crap about you working "FOR" them (OH...and you see the "FOR" them part there...because that's exactly it..you're UNDER them. Had a good company who pays well for the work being done do business with you...it's working WITH you...they look at it as a team)

Good Companies = good pay, respect, team effort

Bad Companies = Crap, hassles, and generally YOU are always the reason there was a problem.

Your choice...my peace is said...sorry for the ranting.

Reply by TheDudeCA on 8/3/05 12:32pm
Msg #56642

Can't agree more.

Twenty percent of the companies giving me work were giving me ninety percent of the headaches.

Eventually got rid of them and things worked a lot smoother.

I found the companies that paid $45 to $50 gave the most headaches on top of it all.

Reply by Sandi on 8/3/05 12:32pm
Msg #56643

First off, not ALL of us CAN truly work and get medical benefits, etc. if we want.

Second of all, because of all the discussions on this board about 'undervaluing ourselves,' I turned down a job yesterday for a $55 quoted fee ("just HUD documents") and somewhere in my city -- never found out where, because I got the usual "We'll get back to you," when I said my min. fee was $75. (Despite its small size, the drive to get from one point to another in this small city CAN be up to 25 miles each way.)

So, I didn't take the job and YES I really need the money! *sigh*

Reply by Sandi on 8/3/05 12:37pm
Msg #56644

My point ... and I did have one :)

... is that not all of us who occasionally take the lower paying jobs are 'hacks' who don't know what we're doing. And PLEASE stop judging us if and when we do. That $55 IF they had paid would have put food in my cupboard.

Please remember, there will ALWAYS be someone who will take the lower paying job ... unless and until there is either state or federal regulation, this is still a 'free enterprise' system. I know there are many on this board who have stopped taking the lower-paying jobs and seem to do quite well.

(And yes, I agree, the lower-paying SSs seem to be the ones who give the most headaches.)

Reply by TCMN on 8/3/05 12:39pm
Msg #56645

Question then Sandi...


Are you telling me you couldn't work for McDonalds? Because they employ "Physically and Mentally challanged" individuals and I have seen people who have difficulty walkig where they are sitting on a chair in the drive through window and THEY get medical benefits.

Just a questions...not trying to argue with anyone. I just think that yes ALL can get soem form of job out there if there is a WILL to do so. That's just me thinking out of the box.

jmho

Reply by Sandi on 8/3/05 1:01pm
Msg #56655

Oh, please! TCMN -- MacDonald's?

They work their a**es off for minimum wage -- sitting or not, and where I am, I guesstimate there are a minimum of 15 applicants for every job.

Reply by TCMN on 8/3/05 1:12pm
Msg #56663

okay...so you don't want to work....I get it now...


well you wont get far then if you don't have the mindset to work your ASS off. I worked my ass off and my FIRST year I made more than $60,000. BUT the key word there...WORKED. You obviously are NOT wanting to work thus the comment "they work their asses off for minimum wage" Sandi, working for signings less than $75 IS minimum wage working. Because had ANYONE who does their calculations figure in the cost of medical insurance into their figures...you will work for minimum wage unless you start working for higher paying jobs.

So again, what about...
BK?
Walmart?
Sears?
Target?
Walgreens?
JCPenny?
Gap?
Old Navy?
BDalton?
Chipolte?
Taco Bell?
Taco Johns?
Subway?
Leann Chin?
KFC?
Pizza Hut?
Dominos?

Are any of those easier for you, they give medical benefits, you're not spending the gas driving all over, you might have to work but you'll advance if they think you're worth it.

I don't think what I do isn't considered anything BUT work. You reap what you soe.

jmho

Reply by Sandi on 8/3/05 1:16pm
Msg #56665

"... until you walk a mile in his mocassins...." - N/M

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 8/3/05 1:38pm
Msg #56669

Re: okay...so you don't want to work....I get it now/I THINK

you misunderstood Sandi; while it may be difficult to not hear you - were you even really hearing what Sandi was saying???
I don't think so, because she didn't indicate that she didn't want to work - she was simply indicating that anyone that works at McDonalds works their "you know what" off - it doesn't mean she doesn't want to work.
You are such a "smarty-pants"...chill out
..and I know you won't like me - I will do 3 signings in one evening at $60.00 each & it'll take me no more than 4.5 hours...so to me $180.00 better than $0.00.
I don't even care that you may think poorly of me, and I think you should chill
What others charge should be of no concern of yours.
I have charged $150.00 - $225.00. I am running my business and I don't need you to belittle me or anyone else for not setting our fees by your standards.
have a great afternoon,
Stephanie

Reply by Charm_AL on 8/3/05 1:39pm
Msg #56670

I have an idea...

I have an idea, but first TCMN I agree with you on $50 companies. I am getting somewhere in the neighborhood of $100. average per signing. This is calculated with $75. thru $150. jobs on average. Of course this is base and in my neighborhood zip code. Most only take 10-20 minutes to get to.
I get calls from companies also that know I'm an hour or so away but offer much more to get me to go do it even if there is a notary 5 minutes away from the signing. I have turned down what I call ludicrous requests - 2 hour driving, e-docs, etc for $75., or the other day, a purchase e-doc for $75. !! I give them my quote and they NEVER call back, which means that someone else took it.
Maybe they have different reasons - maybe they just don't know what they are really worth if they're good at what they do. Maybe they lack the confidence to demand more, maybe they just plain mess up and are forced to take the calls from someone who hasn't been burned by them yet. Who knows.
Education from experienced SA's may change the way they look at this business. Many newer SA's think "WOW" I just made $50. for an hours work!!" "That's $8. for eight hours of work somewhere!!!" Some feel that they have to take $50. to get started, thinking they can raise their fees as they go. That rarely happens once you've laid out your base fees.

Maybe one solution is to get a core group of SA's to form a network. Once the network is large (like BrendaTx's) You can ward off these 50 dollar assignments if no one will accept them. It would take someone, thinking outside the box to organize this. I plan to work with Brenda to learn how to do this and what her experiences were and form something here because I turn down too much work from new (to me) companies and someone else takes it.
I look at this concept kinda like my Dad looked at the Labor Union he worked for.
If the industry won't regulate itself, maybe we as groups all over the nation can protect our own businesses by networking and referring.
Have you seen the size of Brenda's network in Texas?

Reply by JanetK/CA on 8/3/05 4:18pm
Msg #56709

Re: I have an idea...

Keep in mind that labor unions are for employees, not independent contractors. There are free trade laws against price fixing in this country, so proceed with caution... I agree that some kind of regulation might be a good thing, at some point, but in relation to qualifications, not pricing.

Reply by Kay / NV on 8/3/05 4:06pm
Msg #56706

Re: Oh, please! TCMN -- MacDonald's?

Hey Sandy,

In-N-Out starts at $10.75 with scheduled raises. They also offer medical. $145 a month.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 8/3/05 1:07pm
Msg #56661

Re: Question then Sandi...

Working is not always about the benefits (medical, dental). For me it's the hours I am available. This career is something that does fit in my schedule.

Ok now my little soap box item. What do you mean by Mentally challenged? Do you mean Developmentally disabled? The term Mental is used when refering to the mind per Websters- 2 a (1) : of, relating to, or affected by a psychiatric disorder <a mental patient> <mental illness> (2) : mentally disordered : MAD, CRAZY b : intended for the care or treatment of persons affected by psychiatric disorders <mental hospitals>
However developmentally disabled is derived from the root develop per Websters-1 a : to go through a process of natural growth
Now this may sound like splitting hairs to some but those of us who have children who are developmentally disabled and are praying that they reach a level of independance where they can get a job working at McDonalds. It really irks me to have someone to lump my child in the group of mentally ill when she is not. This is not a case of the "politicaly correct police". It's a matter of being educated. Earlier this month there was a story about a Little League coach who allegedly payed a player to hurt another player who was autistic so the team had a better chance of winning. The local reporter refered to the child as "mentally disabled", not developementally disabled" or "autistic". Sorry but it just really hits a nerve with me.
I shall now climb down off the soap box.

Reply by TCMN on 8/3/05 1:28pm
Msg #56667

SarahBeth..NOT INTENDED FOR ARGUEMENT


I apologize for the mistake. There was no disrespect intended. I think you were able to understand the reference though, but yes, they are different.

OFF TOPIC NOW...
I think there are some people who can be "irked" and in the same regard those "irked" need to do something to change it if it bothers them that way. My opinion is that the real world has gotten more "sensitive" and "closed-minded", thus bringing on no ability to, for lack of better words, stand in the shoes of another. What I mean is, people can not say something without being "beat with a stick" if they aren't "politically correct". People can't tell a joke (a joke people) without it offending someone. People can't take a compliment without it being sexaul harrassment.(and YES, there are situations where it is implied in the bad way) People can talk "slang" tearms to one another of their race, but god forbid someone outside that race say it, it's racism. I think that should everyone want everyone to understand everything at their level, they need to make sure the person (s) that they are talking to has the exact same background, up bringing, and education that they have. In otherwords, it can't happen...you can't expect everyone to be educated in everything else ANYONE might have a conversation about. SO, you have to either make it a requirement for someone to talk to you (the education in whatever it is your talking about) or have some understanding and patience and maybe your "irked" feeling can subside.

NOT INTENDED FOR ARGUEMENT

just an observation and thought

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 8/3/05 3:56pm
Msg #56704

Re: SarahBeth..NOT INTENDED FOR ARGUEMENT

Off Topic-I agree with what you are saying in this paragraph in general.
On Topic of Developmentally disabled-You understood the heart of my post in that there is an extreem lack of education on the subject to the extent that reporters who should get educated about thier articles before writing them do not. For them and the everyday person I'll take it upon myself to help out with that education. Right now the statistics on Autism are 1 in every 166 children today are born somewhere on the Autism Spectrum which is why we need to educate each other on the subject. And that is just Autism not to mention the other developmental disabilities there are. There's more information available from the Autism Society.

Reply by BrendaTX on 8/3/05 4:00pm
Msg #56705

Re: SarahBeth..NOT INTENDED FOR ARGUEMENT

God Bless you, SB....

You are an angel!

Reply by TCMN on 8/3/05 9:50pm
Msg #56795

Re: SarahBeth..

Autism is probably one of what I consider the hardest "disability" to deal with. I do not know much about it, so what I speak of is "child's play" to anyone else. I find that it hardest because it seems that is least explainable and most understood. The range from one autistic individual to another can be vast.
It also seems that there is nothing that is for certain...what extent of function will develop or not. Someone could have "this" or "that" trait and be at one end of the spectrum and another could have two different "this" and "that's" and be at that SAME end of the spectrum but be labeled different, etc. Because of the range of different characteristics in any variation that one can have is what I believe makes it hard to determine the cause or possibly a cure.

It's definately hard and harder than what I believe some other "disabilities" are to cope with. A family member can seem at a loss because of little explination, little resources and little understanding on the behalf of peers.

I'm humbled SarahBeth...I think very highly of ANYONE who does the following; care for someone who needs assistance to take care of themselves (i.e. parents of disabled children, nursing home caregivers & hospice caregivers), daycare providers, teachers, nurses (especially owns caring for the terminally ill). Any and all of these individuals I think should have the resources and salaries that justified what they do and what they sacrafice for the love of what they do and for the selfishness they show.

So, I hope that I have somehow been able to explain that I am very understanding of people and their situations. I only went Off Topic to say that, had the world be able to "relax" I believe things could be a better place for everyone. And that there are people out there that really complain and feel sorry for themselves who have NOTHING to be "down" or angry about. Who don't want to work, have things given to them and then need to bash anyone who critics their actions. Sorry for ranting...just my opinion.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 8/3/05 10:07pm
Msg #56801

Re: SarahBeth..

Thank you for being a part of the community education process. One thing I've trying to stress is the need for Speech Therapists, Occupational Therapists, Special Education Teachers and Assistants, and Adaptive PE Coach's. My point being for those of you who's kids are getting old enough to enter college I would encourage them to look into careers in these fields as the need is only growing. My experience with my daughters teachers and therapists is that 90% of what they do at the pre-school/elementary level in the different therapies is fun. It can be very enjoyable. And the reward is shaping these children into becoming productive citizens.

Reply by Hamid MD on 8/3/05 12:40pm
Msg #56646

Do you mind if I ask which state you are? I totaly agree with you, I had the same experiance few times in the last two months. But, I always say, at least I do not waste my time, gas and other resource to help cheap co.

People who take the $50 and $60 do not consider all the cost they have to cover. If the do the math ( considering the risk of mistake and fee cut) then they would come out to know they worked for 7 or $9 per hour.

This peole will go out in long run since they can not cover all the cost. I think this business is going down and I am not cry over it. I will see what I can do so $50 people would not do >

Reply by Sandi on 8/3/05 12:59pm
Msg #56652

Really doesn't matter what state I'm in, but ...

it's in the Pacific NW.

Reply by Brian/CA on 8/3/05 1:10pm
Msg #56662

Re: THIS TICKS ME OFF

I know three real estate agents in my area, that do signings. In my opinion they are very poor notaries, let alone signing agent. The questions that they have asked me amaze me, they don't even know what the documents are.

Reply by TCMN on 8/3/05 1:28pm
Msg #56668

Agree Brian..n/m

Reply by Teasa/NY on 8/3/05 3:46pm
Msg #56701

Isn't Realtors Doing Signings a Conflict??

Reply by Brian/CA on 8/3/05 6:33pm
Msg #56738

Re: Isn't Realtors Doing Signings a Conflict??

These three real estate agents are doing refi's. None of them have taken any kind of training.

Reply by SL/CA on 8/3/05 2:47pm
Msg #56688

I agree with the whole 50.00 SUCKS for a signing, however, I believe when you are new.. Those are the ones to take..You have to get experience somewhere, and if you are going to screw up your first one let it be with a 50.00 Signing co... Not the TC . When you get some experience under your belt and can market yourself to the TC and sign up with ALL signing agencies, then you can pick and chose and I believe by the time that comes around, you will be too busy with TC and good paying signing agency's that you will have to turn down the 50.00 jobs.. But hey if I am SLOOOOWWW one week and lets say Friday I get a call for 50-65.00 10 minutes from home for overnight, you bet ya I will be taking it.. for overnighted docs, I think 50-65.00 an hour is excellent pay. It's funny I was just looking at my books, and since a year ago when I started, It went from 65.00 then to 100.00 to 175.00 now.. with a few little ones in between.. I say to each his own, but once you get good and you know you are good... Go for the big guns !!! Good Luck all, and have a Great day

Reply by Susan/OH on 8/3/05 3:09pm
Msg #56694

Even when I was new I didn't take very many closings at $50.00. I just figured I was worth more then that and I am. You and only you can decide how much your worth and how much your willing to put up from these SS's. I for one am not willing to put up with alot, I do excellant work and I expect to be compensated for it. Last month my average fee was $125.00
with all the closings I did and I only worked 3 weeks because I finally after 2 years took a vacation. Even with taking a week off I did very well and had I not taken off I would have broke a personal record for the month. My point in all of this is each one of us has to decide how much we are worth and set our standards based on that. I don't wait for the phone to ring, the last 3 days all I've done is market, market, market.
Sure I get the $50.00 calls and I don't take them, I figure if I'm not making at least $25.00 an hour and that is with everything included, travel time, gas, signing time and QC at the end and taxes then I'm not making any money. It is simply not worth it to me.

How much are you worth? That is what each SA has to ask him or herself.

JMHO

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 8/3/05 5:31pm
Msg #56720

Re: THIS TICKS ME OFF-----Susan, when you were new you

didn't take many $50.00 signings - whether it was 1 or a few, many Signing Agents do take $50.00 signings when they first start out. There is nothing wrong with the fact that when you were new, you didn't take many $50.00 signings.

Reply by Nd_WA on 8/3/05 3:20pm
Msg #56696

What different does it make if you screw up a $50 or $200 signing? Your first will always be the first, why not make it worth while. No matter what the excuse is, if there are still those who accept $50 signings there will always be $50 SS and this is going to be a never ending topic.

Reply by Susan/OH on 8/3/05 7:07pm
Msg #56748

I agree with you, there is always going to be those that accept $50.00 signings and those SS's that only pay that or less, my point was that early on in this career of mine it didn't take me long to figure out that with what most of these SS's pay and how far they want you to go and then ALL the hoops they want you to jump through, it simply is not cost effective for ME...

It's a vicious cycle, they only pay so much and they only get so much for that. I recently asked on GMN the question to some of the older folks that have been around a while, where the accepted fee of $50.00 got started and why. The responses were varied.

I'm sure there are several SS's that pay a decent fee, don't make you jump through a bunch of hoops, ask for a blood sample etc.. I just don't know who they are and quite frankly I haven't been looking too hard. Perhaps if I did I'd make even more money then I'm making now.
But with my background in sales I'd rather market to the companies that matter and cut out the middle man. The way I look at it and I'll probably get slammed for this but the service they offer is nothing more then making a phone call or several, and if they have to hold someone's hand then they are hiring the wrong people, thus the vicious cycle, it just repeats itself.

I once didn't get paid by a SS because I wouldn't give a copy of my drivers license, which was not part of the agreement when I took the assignment, and yes the assignment was finished w/o incident to the title company's satisfaction. That SS is now out of business and that title company calls me whenever they have anything for me. I think what some of these SS's want is way out of line, copy of your stamp, copy of your drivers license, sign a non-compete, the list goes on, it's ridiculous and totally unnecessary in my opinion. And then most of them don't have the capital to pay you when the work is done, you get paid when they get paid. With the exception of Sylvia's signing service.

So when I see someone on the board crying about some SS that only pays 50 bucks I don't have much sympathy for them. Raise your standards for gods sake, take a risk, market yourself. I was fortunate in that my first closing was from a title company, the same person that introduced me to this business, so maybe I was spoiled from the get go I don't know but 50 bucks never seemed that much to me for all that we provide.

End of rant.....

Reply by Couldbeyou on 8/3/05 4:09pm
Msg #56707

Did anyone ever think that the people telling us not to take the $50.00 signings, are actually scooping them up behind us? Just a thought.

The signings I accept are the one's that fit my schedule. Location, time, my mood, etc. People have been known to work for a lesser paying job because they enjoy what they're doing. Accepting $50.00 to $65.00 for a convenient assignment is up to the individual, not anyone else.

Reply by Stephanie_CA on 8/3/05 5:28pm
Msg #56717

Re: THIS TICKS ME OFF-So I have this SS call and ask..I have

thought of the same thing - one just never knows.

Reply by calchape on 8/3/05 6:20pm
Msg #56732

notary classes

I have no feelings so shoot all you want! I personally believe that classes that teach Loan Signing are building false hopes to the students. I know you have to advertise and blow up actual median results, but get real. I was impressed when I took a class through "Notaryclasses.com". I will never say anything bad about the instructors, I thought they did a marvelous job. They were very honest about situations that have happened and can be expected. But in my opinion, the talk about money was way to easy flowing. I never expected to make 50,000 to 100,00 doing loan signing the first year or second or even third. I was and still am pretty sure that to make that kind of money, you must have a lot of contacts and expirience.
I won't except any loans for under 100.00 to support all that say not to. I do this part time because a friend asked me to become a notary because she was tired of hiring notaries that were basically idiots. I never met any, just know that she is a LO and was tired of it. I have a full time job that pays real good. I guess my point is that I would never pay to go to a class and expect to make a lot of money right away. I am not saying its impossible, but not realistic. If you are worried about food being in the cupboard, maybe you should take on notary work part time and get a job during the day. Should work out for you since most signings are at night.

Just thinking outloud!

Reply by Susan on 8/3/05 7:13pm
Msg #56753

NO it's for sure not me.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 8/3/05 10:56pm
Msg #56817

**Did anyone ever think that the people telling us not to take the $50.00 signings, are actually scooping them up behind us? Just a thought.**

Yep it's me. I tell everybody not to take $50 signings so that I can take them. I also put all the really good companies on the NO NO LIST so nobody will work for them... except me! My secret is out... you caught me... bummer!

I'm always a sucker for a good conspiracy theory but I think this one is a little off! Just an opinion.

I would bet that most SA's DON'T take the super cheapo deals. Just because the signing service didn't call you back for the job doesn't mean somebody necessarily SCOOPED IT. It might mean that after calling 5 people and getting NO's... that they just accepted somebody else's fee down the line. We know that most of them don't have a whole lot of loyalty so the chances of them holding your number... and calling YOU back are slim. They might raise the fee but it will be with the one at the end of the line.

It will even out I think... sometimes you will be the first to refuse... and sometimes you will be the one that they 'get approved'.

Stay strong... only the Super Crappy SA's are possibly scooping you and they won't be around too long!

Reply by Couldbeyou on 8/3/05 11:00pm
Msg #56819

The reply I was looking for. Thank you Angelina!

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 8/4/05 1:46am
Msg #56841

to Couldbeyou

I feel in all fairness that I should say one more thing... I do think that there are exceptions to rules if it suits YOUR purpose and pays off for YOU monetarily. I think that to develop a GOOD business relationship with an SS (even a $50 one) can suit a purpose but you should do it WITH A PURPOSE. I will give you my own example of where I have made an exception...

***I work for only ONE $50 agency - $75 E-doc within 10 miles of me and mileage after that. The reason that I work for them is that their packages are relatively SMALL, they are ALWAYS on time, the packages are ALWAYS tidy, they DON'T handhold, they DON'T want faxbacks, they PAY THE FULL FEE for a no-show or no-sign, they give me VOLUME and they PAY within 7-10 days EVERY TIME! These jobs are quick and pay so quick that they can get me through the 4-6 weeks that it takes to get my $300 from Countrywide!***

The entire thing is in message 53477. I am not ashamed to admit that I do these... they are 20-25 page packages and it WORKS for me. It is the ONLY $50 company that I work with and until another company can offer the same deal... they will remain the only ones.

By volume I am talking about 20-30 jobs a month if I want them. I don't take them all because they often times will conflict with other higher paying jobs... but I will squeeze them in if I can. And when I say they pay within 7-10 days... I mean I RECEIVE my check within this time frame.

Just thought it was only fair to give you the complete story... and I still say STAY STRONG!

Reply by shannon on 8/3/05 9:17pm
Msg #56786

Alot of us whether we will admit it or not do signings for $50.00. I do them all the time. I like having the extra $50.00 in my pocket.....better mine than someone elses right? The reality is there will always be someone who will take the assignment for that amount. If I say no they will move on to the next. I won't accept $50.00 for just any assignment, but for one that is close, overnight docs, no faxbacks....hey works for me.

Reply by East Coast Notary on 8/3/05 9:27pm
Msg #56790

I agree with Shannon a fifty dollars signing with no fax backs and overnighted is not a bad deal when it is a couple of miles away. The whole thing takes about an hr.

Reply by Anon on 8/4/05 7:59am
Msg #56854

So NOW can we have a group hug ??