Posted by Signing Agent on 8/23/05 12:47pm
Msg #61057

Trouble... any suggestions on how to handle this?

I went to a closing where the borrower couldn't read (but could speak) english and had no interpreter. He said he was told that his lender would be there and explain all paperwork. I knew nothing of this. He asked that I explain the docs and I told him by law I could not do that and I could not in good conscience acknowledge a signing that the borrower couldn't read. I contacted the signing comapany and left a message (after hours). The borrower contacted his person (lender) and talked to him. Then I talked to him. The lender tried to coerce me into explaining the docs telling me that this really needs to happen, it's dragged on long enough, etc. I explained to him the limitations of a notary/signing agent. He spoke again to the borrower and then apologized to me for asking me to do such. I left the closing. The next morning I get a call from the title company in a very nasty tone asking me why I didn't close and wanted to know where's the paperwork. I told her with the borrower. I asked her for her number and said I'd call back. She said why didn't she get a call and I said I contacted the person I had as contact info. She said NO, you need to explain now. I said I will call you back (I was at work) and hung up. She then called my cell 2 more times and left a message. I called her back (within 15 minutes) and she says my job was to close and that's it. Then when I explained my signing agent limitations, she said you should've explained the paperwork - he could speak english well. I said he spoke but told me he couldn't read it at all. She then said she could never again use the (*explitive*) signing company again because of me. I said do not curse at me and hung up. I then contacted her boss who said he was in the room and that didn't happen and said he was the customer and did I know who I was. He said you can explain documents. I said no I am not allowed to by law. I explained all the trouble and he interrupted me and said that I was very unprofessional and hung up on her 3 times - which I did not - I only cut her off once , didnt answer the 2nd time, and then I turned off my phone.
Clearly these people are up to no good - that's why they're so concerned with where I left the paperwork. I also found out the history is that this was supposed to close twice before I was called and was postponed for some reason. I'm afraid these people might slander my good signing agent name. What can I do? Any recourse? Anyone else had similar situations?

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 8/23/05 1:08pm
Msg #61063

I have mixed feelings on this one. This story has a lot of holes in it. However if in fact it did actually happen I would say you should immediately call the ss and let them know what happened with all parties.

Reply by Signing Agent on 8/23/05 2:45pm
Msg #61150

I abbreviated the entire ordeal or I would still be writing. What holes? Once the borrower stated that he could not read english I certainly could not have him sign paperwork.

Reply by Brian/CA on 8/23/05 1:25pm
Msg #61074

Re: Trouble... following your story.

I feel for you, and understand you were treated unfairly. I am having trouble reading the story thru. Make paragraphs so it is easier to read.

Did you think about describing each document what it was for, giving the main points in the note, but I would of asked if they had some one that could go over the documents with them later that did read english, such as childred, friends or relatives.

Reply by Mohammed UAE on 8/23/05 1:31pm
Msg #61081

and then...and then...geez, make a point...

Reply by Anonymous on 8/23/05 1:34pm
Msg #61085

UAE?? United Arian Egotists

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 8/23/05 1:33pm
Msg #61084

Re: Trouble... following your story.

Brian the only issue I have with that is if the person doesn't show willingness and comprehension you cannot perform the notarization. If they can't read and can't get someone to help them before they sign then we cannot reasonably believe that there is comprehension.

Reply by Brian/CA on 8/23/05 1:46pm
Msg #61100

Re: Trouble... following your story.

I didn't get from the story that there was a problem with comprehension. If that was the case
I agree with you. Really sad what some lenders put us and their borrowers thru. Wonder what the Signing Service had to say. Sure hope the believe the agent.

Reply by Mary_PA on 8/23/05 1:48pm
Msg #61107

Re: Trouble... following your story.

I would have called the SS and explained the situation. Also I would contact your local gov. office and explain the situation to see if this is legal. When you looked at the docs did you see something fishy? If the SS wants you to go back, If I was you I would call the borrower and ask him to have someone with him (legal represtation) or someone that can understand the docs and meanings and that could explain to the borrower the docs. That way no one can come after you if anything goes wrong......

Reply by Signing Agent on 8/23/05 2:49pm
Msg #61155

Re: Trouble... following your story.

I contacted the ss and left a message - it was after hours. The borrower pulled out his phone and contacted his lender - he had a cell phone number for them. The borrower stated that he was under the impression that the lender was coming to explain the docs in person. I did tell the borrower that I would be glad to sign with an authorized interpreter/reader present. I explained that to the lender as well.

Reply by Bethy_CA on 8/23/05 2:36pm
Msg #61144

The whole of being a SA...

and all the 'training' involved is so one can explain the docs....the purpose of the docs, that is. Clearly, not the content...but the general purpose is perfectly allowable.

I wouldn't have signed for an illiterate buyer either, not if they couldn't understand what they were signing and not if no one else was there to explain the content of the documents, or had done so previously.

Clearly, I can say, "This is document XYZ and it indicates X, Y and Z." in general terms. If the buy recognizes that and says, "Yes, so-and-so told me about that, my interest rate will be X, etc." Then I wouldn't hesitate to notarize. All they have to do is demonstrate knowledge of what they're signing...I don't care what is says....if he knows what he's signing and is willing to do it. Sign away.

However, if the buyer says, "So, what do all these different numbers mean? How much do I have to pay? What id this...what if that?" and he can't read the docs...I'm out of there if he can't contact in LO or someone else to assist.

Reply by Dorothy/MI on 8/24/05 7:37am
Msg #61323

Where is the problem??

If the borrower spoke and understood English, where is the problem? You could have said "This is the note. Your interest rate is blank %. Your principle and interest only payment amount is blank. Your first payment is Oct. 1. It is for blank years. The payment is due on the first of every month. If you're more than 15 days late there is a late fee of blank percent of the principle and interest only payment" and proceeded through all the documents in a like manner. This is what I do with all borrowers whether they can read or not. (Actually, this is what sets you apart from all those "Point and Sign" signing agents that are being churned out by the NNA and others.) Most title companies don't and won't hire you if you are not willing to "go over" the docs with the customer.

If your only problem was that he could not read English, what do you do for blind signers? They can't read English either! I am not "picking" on you, but there is a certain amount of inexperience that is showing. There is a big difference between "explaining" the documents and "reading" what is printed on them. Also, it helps if when you post you use your state's abreviation after your name, because what is acceptable or even required in one state is not the same in every state.

Reply by Art_MD on 8/24/05 7:45am
Msg #61325

Re: Where is the problem - heres a possible one

Where I think some people have a problem is "potential liability".

If you pick and choose what you read or explain to the borrower, whats to keep him/her from later on saying " I wasn't told that I couldn't store 5000 gallons of gas in a tank in my back yard so I could beat rising prices" this after the house burns down after the explosion. He/she claims you didn't read the hazardous material clause in the DOT.

Off to court you go. And E&O doesn't cover this. How much liability insurance do you have??

If you go the reading route, you better be able to swear in court that you read EVERYTHING to the borrower. Sounds like a 6 hour signing - if you read and speak fast.

Art

Reply by TinaG_CA on 8/24/05 12:47pm
Msg #61378

Re: Where is the problem - heres a possible one

Another problem, why did you leave the doc's with the borrower if he didn't sign. I've never left doc's with borrower's who didn't sign. Could be another reason lender's upset. Also, how can he affirm an oath if he can't read a document and affirm that it is true to the best of his knowledge and belief? I'm pretty sure that there had to be one document in that package that had a jurat.

Reply by VA Notary on 8/24/05 9:19pm
Msg #61518

Re: Where is the problem??

In my state - Virginia - you can't do that. There is an ethical obligation as well. I think you acted responsibly... and cautiously - you may have saved your own butt too.