Posted by debi on 12/10/05 8:07pm
Msg #81773

HELP

I'm am getting very discouraged. I've had 2 calls for signings...One, after I got all the docs, I called the borrower and someone had just left there after doing the signing. This one today was horrible. Tried to reach the borrower all night last night up until 10, got up at 7:30 to try and call at 0800. Finally got in touch with her at around 2pm. Set up the appointment for 5:00. Ok so far so good...Get to the ladies house, started going through the docs, she has to initial the loan agreement, she starts looking at it, says "this doc is wrong". I explained several times the recission period...Attempted to get in touch with the signing agent, voice mail, attempted to get in touch with loan officer, you guessed it...voice mail. Tried about 3 times to call both..just voice mail. Expalined the recission period many times and borrower was very distrustful and said she really could not sign any of the documents with the information on the application wrong. What was wrong was that she said she had told the LO and his manager that there was a loan she didn't want to pay off, well it was on there. ABout 6 she told me she had somewhere to go and had to leave. What was I to do? I had her sign a statement she wrote stating that she was refused to sign because the docs were incorrect. What else could I have done? But leave. Any opinions on how I could have gotten her to sign? Thanks. This was only my 2nd signing....and I was very upset at not getting the job done. Any opinions appreciated. Thanks Debi

Reply by CaliNotary on 12/10/05 8:22pm
Msg #81776

It's not our job to try to talk people into signing the documents if they're uncomfortable with them. When I start getting big commissions off of the loans is when I'll start selling the borrowers on the loan. Otherwise I'll let the person who is getting the comission deal with that stuff.

All we can do is make them aware of the recission period and do our best to provide the answers to the questions that they have about what's "wrong" on the docs. Which sometimes we can, sometimes we can't, depends on what their concern is.

But if they refuse to sign, they refuse to sign and all you can do at that point is cut your time losses and get out of there as quickly as possible. Nothing to get upset about, it's going to happen to you again and again.

Reply by debi on 12/10/05 8:26pm
Msg #81777

You're right....On the sheet Ihave the borrower sign, it says I'm just there to witness the signing. The LO should have already taken care of this, I think. She was really distrustful of the recission thing. So I can't blame her, if she didn't have a good feeling that she wanted to do this loan, then she shouldn't. Thanks for the support.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 12/10/05 8:48pm
Msg #81779

Hi Debi...

Whew...sounds like you did everything possible and then some. We've all had it happen, LO's don't listen to their clients and then we have to pull the rabbit out of the hat! Don't take it as failure, it's not! Just send the invoice because you've done everything you could do! Good thing this happened early in your career, ya got it out of the way! ~smiles~ Hang in there, it does get better!

Reply by debi on 12/10/05 8:50pm
Msg #81780

Re: Hi Debi...

Thanks for your kind words. I really do hope I have gotten it out of the way :>

Reply by Lee/AR on 12/10/05 9:06pm
Msg #81782

Re: HELP--What you did right...

On the one where you got the docs & someone else had already completed the signing. That's uncommon. And I think I'd have a little talk with the people that hired you about a thing called 'double-booking'. They shouldn't have done this to you... be nice but make 'em feel guilty & they may think of you first on the next one. On the no-sign, as Cali rightly said...not your job to 'sell' the loan. After pointing out the 3 day RTC, if they still don't want to sign---cut your time loss & get outta there. What you did do right was to get her to sign a statement as to why she refused to sign. Covers your butt AND proves you were there. You're entitled to full fee on this one...make sure you get it. You've just had a streak of bad luck--it's got to get better.

Reply by debi on 12/10/05 9:11pm
Msg #81783

Re: HELP--What you did right...

Thank you sooo much. I was really beating myself up but after talking to you guys...I feel much better. Thanks You guys are the BOMB!!!

Reply by Trish on 12/11/05 6:54pm
Msg #81872

Re: HELP--What you did right...

On your first signing. You said, “someone had just left there after doing the signing”. You will find some borrowers contact and negotiate with several lenders. Play one against the other, so to speak, to get the best deal. That signing may have been for a different Lender. This is why you confirm appointments immediately after receiving closing order and never print docs until you have spoken to the borrower.

Reply by debi on 12/10/05 9:16pm
Msg #81784

Re: HELP--What you did right...

I just sent an email to the SA and told him what had happened and because it was not cancelled and I did go through all the expense of printing edocs and making borrower's copies, I should receive my full fee. I hope it works. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again

Reply by Danny_FL on 12/10/05 10:31pm
Msg #81792

Re: HELP--What you did right...

What you did was correct and it is not your responsibility to 'sell' the loan. Ensure you get full fees and let the SA know you may be avail to return to the BO with the corrected docs for another fee.

Danny

Reply by David Le Jean on 12/10/05 11:58pm
Msg #81796

Re: HELP--What you did right...

HANG IN THERE! I know it might be rough at first, but with perserverance it will get better. We have ALL been through this!

Reply by Mitch_MD on 12/11/05 8:28am
Msg #81803

It's not always double-booking

Lee, I've had this happen to me twice.

The first time was due to the borrower jumping the gun and wanting the signing to take place much earlier than scheduled. They did not call me to try and work anything out, nor did they call the SS that assigned me the job; they simply called the LO, who went around everybody and got another SS and SA to do the job. Imagine my surprise when I called the borrower to let them know I was en route (I was coming from an earlier signing) and being told not to bother, the job was already done! However, in speaking to the borrower over the phone, I'm sure the other SA had the signing from hell, as the borrower was extremely pushy, demanding and wanted everything to adhere to a real tight timetable.

The second time was somewhat similar to the first, in that the borrower wanted the signing to take place earlier than previously agreed to and went back to the LO for assistance. The LO in this case called another SS - and this is where it gets interesting - the *second* SS calls me (in the middle of a late evening signing, no less) to do the *same* signing I was already scheduled to do the following day for the first SS! Only in this case, the 2nd SS wants me to go to the borrowers as soon as I finish the signing I'm already doing. I turned them down and informed the 1st SS of what was going on and everything got resolved.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 12/11/05 3:22am
Msg #81800

First off, as the others have pointed out, you've done all you could do and I give you kudo's on having the borrower write their statement regarding refusal to sign! Excellent job, Debi. These things happen, but not all that often.

It can be helpful to have a more in-depth understanding of some documents and procedures when you have these situations - by no means an exhaustive list, but just some of the more common stumbling points that come up at closings. FIRST COURSE OF ACTION IS ALWAYS TO CALL T/C, BROKER OR LENDER FIRST:

1. Debts being paid - the ones on the Hud are the ones that will be paid, and the info on the 1003/Application is often inconsistant. The reason for this is that the 1003 is compiled at a prior stage than the Hud, and by another source. The Hud is compiled by the T/C, then approved by the Lender, and usually it goes between them several times before the final version is done. That's why you will sometimes even get the Hud delivered separately from the rest of the package. The Hud would take precedence over the 1003, as would the Note and Mtg/DOT (terms, ect). GENERALLY, the 1003 can be hand-corrected, it is not a binding contract, it is a "Loan Application", it's purpose is to represent the data used in underwriting the loan. The Hud is "THE" definitive disbursement 'ledger'.

2. If a borrower is good with the loan but has an issue with something on the Hud (debt being paid, taxes being paid but they paid them already, balance due on a debt being paid is incorrect) other than FEES, you could offer them the opportunity to sign the loan, but not the Hud (assuming you can't reach someone to assist while at the closing). Then, they can work this out during their recission period, and a revised/correct Hud can be sent to them for signing (it's not a notarized doc).

3. Many things can be corrected or revised during recission - the things that can NOT be changed w/out having an entire new loan drawn are any of the loan terms: interest rate, amount of loan, actual loan product (fixed, Arm, I/O, etc), length of loan, etc.

4. Borrowers tend to 'stick' sometimes on documents that do not always represent accurate (i.e. final) information. Knowing which documents those are and why they sometimes have inconsistant information can make/break loans and SA careers. Again, the 1003 - also, the GFE, which is done with the loan pkg and usually not re-done to match the final Hud. Even the TIL has an allowable margin (albeit small) and is not always 'to the penny', nor does it include every item on the Hud.

5. Can't leave out the 4506 or 4506T from this list, another common sticking point. I've run into two 'types' of refusals - the astute borrower who knows he's underwritten on a 'Stated' loan product and did not provide any income doc., and the borrowers who have 'government' issues. I have had them write their own refusal note, reminded them that the docs are the lenders and it is the lender's discretion as to whether or not they will consumate/fund the loan w/out this doc.

6. Arbitration Riders/Affidavits - another common refusal. I do the same as with the 4506.

I am of the opinion (and as they saying goes ... everyone has one!) that the added value of using me should not be at the cost of losing a closing that would not have been lost had it been signed 'in house' (assuming a level playing field of following the law!) I see it as my responsibility to everyone, including my business, to know all the documents, their purpose, what document affects what other document, what things can be corrected/revised and what things can not. Not everyone holds this same opinion, and everyone is only responsible for their own choices.

Reply by sue_pa on 12/11/05 9:30am
Msg #81836

For your first instance, there's not a lot to be done other than call the company to let them know you are displeased and to come here and complain to us as we all understand.

The second appt. has me confused as to why she wouldn't sign. You mention the "agreement" and the "application". Her bills being paid off are on the HUD not on the 2 you mentioned.

No offense but I am guessing someone with experience would have gotten this loan signed. We don't have to 'sell' the loan but after many, many appts. w/wrong figures and no one available to talk to your ease in letting them know a payoff can be adjusted during the 3 days if necessary most times soothes the borrower. Not every time but most times. When the loan terms are correct, payoffs aren't a big deal as they don't effect the loan itself -- they are either right, they can be corrected, or ythey will be receiving a refund from the company that is being overpaid. Your comfort and self-assurance w/the loan docs goes a long way to comforting the borrowers. Info on the application being wrong will constitute 90+% of your appts.

Also, you are the signing agent. You were right in having her sign a statement but again, with experience, you won't be sitting there for an hour before she decides the appt. is over. If she won't sign, get her to write you a note and be gone. No sense wasting your time - what in the world did she do for one hour if she wouldn't sign?

All that said, if the company that hired you knew this was your second appt. and they weren't available to assist you then they should have no complaints about you as you did the right thing and tried to reach someone for assistance. By the way, it truly does get easier.

Reply by Anonymous on 12/11/05 1:11pm
Msg #81857

Hanging in there

I have done over 500 signings. Last weekend, had two in one day that were a disaster. Wrong docs. Title co canceled it during the appointment to resend. Printer jammed up. Ran out of ink. Had more but one set was streaky and had to shread them. More time to print was running last. Next one, cash was wrong did the signing but other loan companies kept calling the borrower during the signing and he indicated he was going to cancel since he was ticked off at the LO one the deal we were signing. Not to mention his cat was humping my leg during the signing. UGGGHHHH!

Somedays are like that. It will get better.

Reply by CarolynCO on 12/11/05 2:02pm
Msg #81860

Much to what the LO would have you believe, we are not there to sell their loan. If someone doesn't want to sign the docs, doesn't feel comfortable with the docs, or for whatever reason, you CAN'T force them to sign -- you can explain the 3-day right to cancel, but I repeat, you CAN'T make them sign the docs.