Posted by BrendaTx on 12/15/05 2:12pm
Msg #82801

Interesting - SS told TC to call me about a fee?

I quoted an SS $200 for a signing 80 miles one way w/ edocs. ( I am sure some of you think that is too low, but even the big national TC we all work for acted like it was astronomical.)

The SS called the TC who called me.

The TC balked at my fee. By this time I realize there is not another notary to do it yet my price doesn't go up. Nice of me, I think.

This TC hasn't called me direct in a while and has given signings through an SS...SS wants a $50 + $25 fee for edocs within 50 miles. Yeah right on.

What motivation do I have to work with these people on a lower price? They want a really early morning appointment...and again, why would I be motivated to give them a slot so early that I'll have to leave at 6:30 am?

Putting myself out for nothing gets me a lot of stress and resentment so I don't do that any more.

None of us have to take less $$ just because the TC or the SS needs to make more money on less work since the refi boom is flattening down big time.

We could all find other things to do until this mess levels out. That's my plan. I'll take temp jobs or something until I can see if there will be work later, but I am not going to make $0 so TCs and SSs meet their budget. The sooner we ALL do not take less than we should the sooner things will smooth out. Right Lawrence and Teddog?

Curses and grimaces to those who have recruited people into this business who did not do quality work, and horse laughs to those who see nothing wrong with making extra money and taking $50 for a signing appointment.

Venting over. Thank you ladies and gentlemen.

Reply by NM_CO on 12/15/05 2:21pm
Msg #82807

People are so greedy. I read so many bad posts about ss's. I just don't get it. *I* for one pay what the notary asks, I raaarely make a big check off of them, maybe 25 bucks but that's about it. Generally I require that a notary have plenty of experience so I don't understand the companies that hire new notaries just to save themselves 10-20 bucks. I try to do as many closings as I can but when I can't handle them I give them to other people and I'm not greedy about it. I'd rather have an experienced notary who is getting paid what they are worth than to get a call the next day from a tc saying something is wrong.

I was chatting the other day with a poster from here and we both agreed it's just too easy to get your notary license nowadays. If it was harder to get, there wouldn't be so many sa's and then there wouldn't be a notary auction. I never got the term "notary auction" until I started reading this board.

Reply by Deb_CO on 12/15/05 3:08pm
Msg #82817

NM_CO, I think I recall that conversation ;)

In my book, good things are seldom cheap and cheap things are seldom good. They can find someone cheaper...they always do, but will that cheaper person be better than you? I think as experienced people move through this business, their worth goes up in many ways--better overall service, better infrastructure, and better professionalism. In the real world, better things cost more--this business is no different. That's why you'll see some SS's conducting themselves with dignity, rather than dialing for dollars.

Reply by NM_CO on 12/15/05 3:23pm
Msg #82822

;) yep. lol.

If anyone ever needs an outstanding notary/sa, call Deb. She's very flexible, organized and professional.

Reply by Deb_CO on 12/15/05 4:01pm
Msg #82835

Thank you...and

that goes ditto for you. Paula is a pleasure to work with. If you have the opportunity, do so.

Reply by Calnotary on 12/15/05 2:24pm
Msg #82808

If signings are down, why doesnt SS fire half of their employees? Is it too much 50.00 dollars
more for an experienced notary?

Reply by travis faherty on 12/15/05 3:52pm
Msg #82832

the reason some of us are so cheap is cause we are new and want any and all expeience we can get. sorry but how do you get signing experience if you can't get a signing job???? its a double edge sword. i have found some signing agencies want "x" number of signings before they will even consider you, but how do i get there if nobody will give me the chance. guess i'm selfish then, cause i'll take jobs like this for less. i have to do something to gain experience and get in the door.

Reply by Deborah Kolaras on 12/15/05 4:15pm
Msg #82844

You actually answer your own question: " the reason some of us are **so cheap** is cause we are new and want any and all expeience we can get. "

Being 'so cheap' isn't a good reflection on you. Selling by price is not the way to make yourself profitable, nor is it your bargaining chip in getting clients--when it comes down to it people want quality work and not a re-sign. Instead, try being COMPETITIVE. Being competitive means pricing that is more of indicative of what you bring to the table, in addition to your experience or lack thereof. It doesn't mean you can charge top dollar for your work unless you can actually provide references that back up the claim. The extras you give should be spelled out fairly clearly in your conversation with your client, your written communication with your client and the product you return after the closing is done. I've had many clients complain about SA's from all over the country--they take little pride in their work, rush the borrowers, turn in work that looks like the dog got hold of it. Pitty...no, that person doesn't deserve more than $50.00.

I will tell you this--it is really hard to move your price from $50.00 to say $100.00 when you finally determine that is where you really need to be to run a business. When you sell based on price, there will always be someone 'so cheap' and maybe, cheaper than you.

Reply by Nd_WA on 12/15/05 4:33pm
Msg #82860

Well said Deborah...n/m

Reply by Nd_WA on 12/15/05 4:29pm
Msg #82859

Re: Travis

I've posted many times over, THIS IS A BUSINESS not some get rich overnight job! I didn't take the advice nor waste my time signing up with hundreds SS, or accept low fee just to get my foot into the business. I research (read/analyzed) what one (oldie/newbie) has to say in a post then made assessment of my knowledge.

To gain experience, you can ask local TCs if they would take you in for a job shadow, pull out your old mortgage and learn the form, take signing classes, or pay someone for a 1-on-1 session etc. The most important thing in this business is to have PATIENCE with everything.

Reply by travis faherty on 12/15/05 4:45pm
Msg #82871

Re: Travis

i understand that this is a business. i have taken classes, i have poured over the documents. but what i can't find is what agents charge in/around me. went to the library here and it tells me what i charge which is little to no help to me. lets say for argument sake its 80 miles each way, 160 miles total. lets say it took 2 1/2 hours to drive, another 30 minutes to prepare and an hour for the signing. lets say short span 4 hours and long span 5 hours. 4/$200= $50 an hour and 5/$200= $40 an hour. tell me where i'm wrong not to do this signing for this kind of money. seriously i'm new to this and have no idea about rates/fees. if you start to cheap its hard to go up, but its also hard to comand top dollar for your first time out. so if anybody has the going rates for lodi/stockton ca please post up or email me at [e-mail address]

Reply by Deb_CO on 12/15/05 5:04pm
Msg #82882

Re: Travis

First, your math at least for me is incorrect IMHO. I dont know what your overhead is, but I know to run my business, it costs money and requires a vehicle, office equipment, materials, insurance, and on and on. That overhead must be taken away from the $40.00/hour fee you show in your example. Personally, I take an average of 2-4 hours on each and every deal, then deduct my overhead. I have a break point, meaning, if the job isn't paying me enough after all is said and done, it's a dog and not profitable, therefore, I can't accept the job. Why do I take so long? The work is THAT important to me. The pacakge is checked at the table, twice back home, and is presented professionally. BTW, you're really new and take only 30 minutes at a close? That doesn't sound like much time with the borrowers, nor time to re-check your work. I'm not saying I can't do it in that time, I do very often, but I've been doing this for many years.

I don't expect that new folks can charge top dollar right out of the gate. You should, though, at least be able to charge SS's the going NNA's (hate 'em, but ....) suggested rate, and TC's at least double that. (SS's you're splitting the fee, TC's are taking out the middle man, so your take should be more.) That's my math. Your mileage may vary.

Reply by travis faherty on 12/15/05 5:24pm
Msg #82889

Re: Travis

thanks for this will look into it. and no i can't do a signing in 30 minutes. i meant 30 minute at home prepping the docs and an hour with the customer. and threw in an extra hour for safety. so if it took 5 hours i made $40 an hour and if i take away 1/4 for overhead i still make $30 at 1/2 overhead i make $20 an hour. sure beats minimum wage

Reply by travis faherty on 12/15/05 5:27pm
Msg #82890

Re: Travis

where in the nna does it give fee structure... or is it a member only thing(i'm not a member yet)

Reply by Art_MD on 12/15/05 5:36pm
Msg #82892

Re: Travis search for..

Travis,
Search this site. There have been several postings re: actual costs of doing business. They covered everything from equipment costs to SE taxes to advertizing .

Art

Reply by travis faherty on 12/15/05 5:46pm
Msg #82897

Re: Travis search for..

searching alot of sites. some good, some bad but the more info the better

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/15/05 5:05pm
Msg #82883

Hopefully this will illuminate a bit on new folks and fees.

============
When there is a new doctor on the street, I don't see a fee break...might be higher.

New hairstylist? Maybe a grand opening sale and then it's $10 more than down the street because she's got the coolest little play area for her clients' kids. ALL mommies go there.

Brand new TAMU graduate - this enterprising Aggie is opening up a lawn care business. He's fortunately got marketing know how even though his degree is in commercial horticulture.

By his prices you know that the boy is proud of his work! He still owes another $55,000 on in school loans - goes in at $5 higher than the rest but uses great ideas when he markets. For instance, he might guarantee his work...if he makes a mistake, or you just don't like it, well you don't have to pay him that time and he'll make good on it asap.

Maybe the Aggie might be willing to do something extra...haul off trash at no charge for his first two times he works for you. Maybe he'll work out a contract deal so that the first ten times he goes you pay but the 11th is free....Maybe he'll sweep something off...clean the gutters...maybe he'll do a little trimming...whatever the case, he's not going to be out of business in a year due to not getting what he is WORTH each and every time he works for a client.

People with a business head will not lose money, though their business will grow slowly. It will take awhile to start a cash flow, but when the business is finally earning it won't be earning less than what is needed to pay for tires, toner and to buy a few pairs of nice earrings, Diet Cokes and Blue Bell Ice Cream.

People who think they can make money by cutting throats to get business will find out you cannot take $50 at this point with the car costing you around $.50 a mile.

Since you do not have to pay your tires or your mechanic each time you go to a job and incur mileage you will not realize how you messed up until your equipment malfunctions.

When you need a new piece of machinery, or a total tune up...just remember you did not factor that into your price while you were undercutting.

Those you undercut are happy to take off with your $50 signings for $85-$100...and if you think that you got any loyalty for being cheap at $50...you are wrong. The people who used to hire you will move on and forget you.

You do not have any friends in the business but you.

Reply by Teddog_CO on 12/15/05 7:45pm
Msg #82929

Hey ! Brenda

Venting is OK with me, it's not good to keep things pent-up . You are just saying what is so true. Lawrence and I agree on this one fact "Keep your fees set as they are." You are not going to starve to death and I'll be damned if I'm going to "pay" to work for these low-ball companies.
Trust me when I say it's costing these people to take these low-ball fees, they aren't smart enough to sit down and make a business plan to what they have to make to clear any kind of a profit. End result low-ball notaries You're out of business.

Just think of the money, we as professional notaries have invested to do our job right. And for the 100th time "The Notaries are taking all the chances" we are No-ones' employee-no insurance-no vacation- no paid time-of-no sick leave. But we do have monthy expenses, mortgages, car insurance, health insurance , dental insurance,etc... Everyone knows what it costs us for supplies, advertising, E&O for 150K and every fancy-dancey piece of equipment known to mankind.
Brenda you are so correct! Time is what cost us the big bucks. Everyone has their hand out to get our money for nothing, they do Nothing for Notaries that I can see, just sucking up every buck they can.
So, I'll keep declining the poop jobs and keep catering to my truely professional and wonderful clients. If you have to ride it out hey that's ok with me. But I will never lower my standards or the quality of my work. "Notary Auction" is going to cost low-ballers Big Time and ultimately it will be their demise. There is NO way to cut-corners on experience and quality work.

I'm off the soapbox.

Teddog

Reply by Brenda Stone on 12/16/05 11:42am
Msg #83033

Re: Hey ! Brenda

**"pay" to work for these low-ball companies.**

Teddog, I have heard that phrase but did not interpret it to mean like you have just used it. It is a very good way to say what the problem is. If the notary does not do some personal number crunching the notary will not charge enough to cover expenses much less to profit long term.

Reply by CarolynCO on 12/16/05 12:45pm
Msg #83044

Re: Hey ! Brenda

It's that way in any business. So many people just pluck a figure out of the air and assume it is good money -- "hey, it's more than I was making working full-time ..." However, they have no idea what it costs to operate a biz. They haven't crunched the numbers. They don't have a written biz plan. They have absolutely no idea that this money isn't free and clear and that Uncle Sam has his hand four times a year to collect. They have no idea if they are operating in the red or in the black.