Posted by LarryTN on 12/30/05 9:21am
Msg #85263

Non Signing Spouses

I have a HELOC this afternoon and only one spouse will be signing...I haven't done a "one spouse HELOC" in quite a while and would like someone to help me remember which docs the non signing spouse signs besides the TIL, RTC, DOT, etc...TIA

Reply by SLP_VA on 12/30/05 9:24am
Msg #85264

TIL
RTC
DOT/Mortgage
Itemization of Amount Financed
Signature Name Affidavit

If I'm missing something, someone please fill it in

Reply by LarryTN on 12/30/05 9:27am
Msg #85266

Thanks SLP_VA, I appreciate the info ...!

Reply by PAW_Fl on 12/30/05 9:55am
Msg #85268

First, is the NOBS required to sign? Unless there are community property, spousal rights, homestead, etc. laws in effect, the spouse may not need to sign. Check with the title company for direction. I would not assume to suggest a list of documents as I could very well be in error. The title company, on the other hand, should know and provide the direction.

Reply by Mung/CA on 12/30/05 10:09am
Msg #85270

Had a HELOC last week where the NOBS didnt..........

sign ANYTHING but the statement of information. I thought it was weird so I called the title company and they confirmed that the spouse didn't have to sign anything because the husband was taking out the loan by himself ("so and so, a married man, as his sole and separate property"). I was always under the impression that the NOBS always had to sign SOMETHING, at least the RTC, because CA is a community property state.

Always learning I guess.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 12/30/05 10:13am
Msg #85271

Tn is a spousal state and...

SLP did a super job listing docs for you Larry. I once had a LO tell me the same thing Mung HOWEVER they are not in our state and do not know our laws. I had NOB's sign the necessary docs and never heard another word. Just drew sig lines and had her sign those that are required and print her name beneath.

Reply by SharonMN on 12/30/05 10:38am
Msg #85278

Guys - isn't all of this UPL? I'm not a real estate lawyer, and I sure don't make enough to worry about whether the borrower or his spouse is signing the right documents. That's the lender or title company's job. I don't know enough about the loan or the borrower's situation. I'm an independent witness, and my job is to make sure what's given to me is signed and notarized properly and returned timely. Seems like you can get into a lot of trouble if you start changing/adding signature lines -- and you wrongly raise the TC or SS expectations of us, so they think we'll correct things so they don't need to double check the docs before sending them out. Just my .02.

Reply by FastCA on 12/30/05 11:29am
Msg #85285

Sharon, I couldn't agree more! It appers that there are some of us who forget what are role is in the closing process. My .02

Reply by SLP_VA on 12/30/05 11:38am
Msg #85288

Agreed SharonMN, that's why I always call SS or TC when there is a spouse to see how they would like me to handle if spouse's name is not included on these documents. I know VA is not a spousal state, but sometimes, the TC or lender is and request that spouse sign documents anyway. I would never, on my own just add a signature line and have someone sign. And you're right, it's not our job to worry about it whether borrower or spouse is signing the correct documents, but it is MY job to do an accurate signing and if something does not look right, then I will question it. No need in getting blamed by TC or SS because something got overlooked or SA didn't call and ask the question. Everyone knows the NSA is always the 1st to get blamed for an something missed whether it was our fault or not. You know what I mean?

Anyway, have a good day all. I've been sitting here all morning waiting on docs that was supposed to have been fed exed for morning delivery, only to be just told that docs did not go out last night and TC had to see what was going on. (Sigh). Another one may bite the dust for me today.

Reply by SharonMN on 12/30/05 2:38pm
Msg #85317

I agree, the notary is very right to call the TC or SS if something looks wrong - that's giving good service. It's when you're expected to figure out the answer to the problem that you're crossing the line!

Reply by SueW/Tn on 12/30/05 3:00pm
Msg #85318

Sharon...both your posts I totally agree with so why....

did I make the post that I did? Hmmmm....had something to do with a signing I had not to long ago...docs arrived in my in box at 8 p.m. for a 6 a.m. signing, borrower was leaving town and I was meeting them at the airport prior to departure. All business offices were closed and surely wouldn't be opened at the appointment time, read instructions and to give the condensed Readers Digest version they said:

In all non-spousal states NOB's sign....yadadadada.

In all spousal states have the NOB sign RTC, DOT, yadadadada "and all additional docs which your spousal state requires". ACKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!

I talked with my peers, no one was certain, they gave me their input on what they knew from experience. I "winged it" but made a personal vow to educate myself about my state laws. It's a personal choice to know as much as I possibly can about what I do, "it's not my job" simply doesn't work for me. I do not practice law, period. I do however make it my job to know what my state requires.

Reply by RickinVA on 12/30/05 3:21pm
Msg #85321

Re: Sharon...both your posts I totally agree with so why....

Well, I just had one a couple of days ago. When I called the SS, they said "Just the TIL, RTC and Mortgage." Since Va has no mortgage, I said : "You mean DOT" and they said yes, so that's what they got. (Except I also let her sign the ID aff.) No riders, no this and no that.

Rick

Reply by SLP_VA on 12/30/05 4:09pm
Msg #85324

"It's when you're expected to figure out the answer to the problem that you're crossing the line!"

I don't think as a NSA, we're expected to figure out the answer to the problem. We are not attorneys and are not licenced to figure out the answers on the loan docs. That's what the TC and LO is for. Just about all of the instructions I receive from the SS state that we are NOT authorized to give advice or answer questions regarding the term of the loan, etc..

And because I tend to be very thourough in all my signings, if something that I know is amiss or just doesn't jive correctly, of course I will pick up the phone and question it before moving on the another documents. Most of the time I will have had a chance to resolve any issue when docs are arrived in my office because I review them before heading out to the borrowers.

Reply by Anonymous on 12/30/05 2:22pm
Msg #85315

HUD
Mortgage/Deed of Trust and all applicable riders.
Truth in Lending (TIL)
Itemization of Amount Financed
Privacy Act Notice
Document Correction and Fees Due Agreement
Notice of Right to Cancel
Marital Status Affidavit
Affidavit as to Debts and Liens
Acknowledgement as to Fair Market Value
Discount Point Acknowledgement
Receipt of Document Copies

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/2/06 1:00am
Msg #85570

This looks like a generally pretty good list, but I've seen packages that specifically instruct that the NOBS NOT sign the HUD. From posts I've read on this board, I believe this is clearly an issue that varies significantly from state to state. From my own personal experience in CA, this can vary from loan to loan, depending on the borrower's situation (e.g. when they married in relation to when the property was acquired, what docs have they executed and recorded previously) and what the lender wants. The latter seems to be the biggest variable.

I suggest anyone be very careful about taking any advice from any message board about how to handle this question.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 1/2/06 7:49am
Msg #85580

The issue of whether or not NOBS signs this or that document is almost solely dependent on the whims and wishes of the lender and/or title company. I asked the County Recorder here, and was told they only care about the documents --they-- see. That is, only the documents that get recorded (Deed, mortgage and riders, etc.). Then it must follow state laws and comply with the Homestead Act (in FL) if applicable.

Reply by SLP_VA on 1/2/06 10:38am
Msg #85593

Non Signing Spouses

"I suggest anyone be very careful about taking any advice from any message board about how to handle this question."

- OR -

When in doubt, contact lender!! Simple as that.....