Posted by Sharon S. Young on 12/27/05 11:41pm
Msg #84761

Out of state loan property

I have a signing tomorrow morning in CA for a refinance on a property in FL. Docs are all drawn here in CA. The notarizations have FL wording. Since the property is in FL, do I just use their wording (changing the venue) or do I attach all purpose CA ack.?

Reply by hcampersFL on 12/28/05 12:12am
Msg #84762

Sharon, You need to use the wording for Ca. If the wording doesn't meet Ca. standards then you must attach ack's.
Good luck,
Beverly

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 12/28/05 2:27am
Msg #84769

No

Just use the Acknowledgment verbiage provided in the loan documents supplied by Florida.

I think the confusion concerning Calif State Notary law is about our 2005 Jurat change.

Calif Jurat 2005 law: All Calif. Notaries must use our 2005 Jurat verbiage on any loan docs; doesn't matter what state the property is located in.

Calif is the only state requiring Identification/personal knowledge for Jurats beginning in 2005.

My suggestion for Calif notaries: buy a 2005 jurat stamp from notaryrotary.com as you will be using it for years to come!!

I did 4 loans today and not one of them had our correct Calif. 2005 Jurat verbiage.

I have completed approx. 400 loans this year and approx. 15-20 loans have had the correct Calif Jurat verbiage. My guess is nothing will change until other states require ID information.

Reply by hcampersFL on 12/28/05 7:26am
Msg #84777

Re: No

So Joan your saying its ok in Ca. to use another states wording when doing an ack or jurat?

When I do one in Florida I always make sure that I use the Florida wording no matter what other state the property is in. How can I be expected to know if the wording for each and every state is correct on there cert's?

Oh and by the way in Florida you are required to list Identification/personal knowledge on the jurat also. Ca. isn't the only state that requires that.
B.

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/28/05 8:04am
Msg #84786

Re: No

Beverly,

Joan's response also surprised me because I always make sure that the ack complies with my Tx acks before using it, or I will attach one of my own. You make a good point about wording on certs/knowing if the wording is correct. That is one I would not have thought of.

This will be a good learning thread, I think. I hope Joan follows up and makes this more clear on what she meant because I am thoroughly confused now about something I thought was safe to conclude. (I thought if the notary is not sure about the wording on the ack/jurat attached to the document, attach a statutory ack/jurat for the notary's state. I understand that this is true for Texas. Thought it would be safe for all states.)

(I understand Texas is not California and I know nothing about CA laws.)

Reply by PAW_Fl on 12/28/05 8:07am
Msg #84787

Re: Slight correction ...

>>> Calif is the only state requiring Identification/personal knowledge for Jurats beginning in 2005. <<<

Florida has always required the signer to be properly identified for any valid notarial act in the state. Further, for in-state acts, Florida has required that the type of identification used be shown on the notary certificates, including acknowledgments and jurats, for many, many years.

Reply by Sharon S. Young on 12/28/05 8:27am
Msg #84789

Still confused, a little more info

The loan was drawn by a CA loan company (out of OH), the title company is also here in CA. But the notary wording on the docs is FL. I heard one time that you need to use the wording of the state where the docs will be recorded, and my question here is will they be recorded in FL or CA? I believe FL is the correct answer, but I just want confirmation.

Thanks

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/28/05 10:04am
Msg #84822

It records where property is located. n/m

Reply by BetsyMI on 12/28/05 8:50am
Msg #84792

Re: No

I would like clarification too. Joan's sentence says "all Calif. Notaries must use...". Since I am not a California notary, and I would be notarizing in Michigan for a California title company, I would assume I would not be bound by the California Jurat law.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 12/28/05 10:01am
Msg #84817

Totally confused...

but that's probably not anything new...~laffs~ I have been taught that it doesn't matter what is going to happen to the docs, where they record etc. once they leave the table. I MUST follow my states laws and regulations! How can we possibly know what happens in Maine or Vermont and why would we get ourselves into an industry that, from what Joan is saying, we'd have to have more education and knowledge than the attorneys that make 3X's what we are paid? I'm simply going to continue doing what I've been taught and that is following my states laws. Sorry Joan, this is another time we disagree.

Reply by PattiCA on 12/28/05 11:15am
Msg #84847

Re: Totally confused...

CA law allows a notary to use other verbage if the document will be recorded in a state other than CA. I do not know of any recorded documents that REQUIRE a jurat. But as long as the notary verbage DOES NOT include capicity, a CA notary may use that verbage as long as the document is to be recorded (used) outside of CA. If document is to be recorded (used) within CA then the notary must use CA verbage. Hope this clears the confusion

Reply by TitleGalCA on 12/28/05 11:24am
Msg #84849

Re: No

From the CA notary handbook, page 9:

"A notary public may complete an acknowledgement from required in another state or jurisdiction of the United States on documents *to be filed* in that other state or jurisdiction..."

Sharon, you can use the cert provided.

I don't know why 2005 jurat language was introduced into a post that was discussing out of state loans and whether to use CA language or FL language. It just made for more confusion.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 12/28/05 11:40am
Msg #84852

Sorry if I confused everyone

I am only discussing Calif. notaries.

Ca. state law allows notaries to use the acknowledgment verbiage from other states if the document will be recorded in that other state. The acknowledgment verbiage may be different from the Ca verbiage but may be verbiage required in that other state.

The critical issue here is that the verbiage may not require the Ca. notary to do anything illegal
(i.e. prove capacity.)

Jurats: Unlike Acknowledgments, all Jurats completed in Ca. must have Ca. verbiage without regard to where they will be recorded. "Affidavit Of Death Of Joint Tenant" is one Jurat that is recorded.

Are there other states, besides, Florida that require I.D./personal knowledge for Jurats?

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/29/05 12:38am
Msg #84971

Re: Sorry if I confused everyone

Joan said **Ca. state law allows notaries to use the acknowledgment verbiage from other states if the document will be recorded in that other state. The acknowledgment verbiage may be different from the Ca verbiage but may be verbiage required in that other state.**


Interesting. Thanks.

Reply by Blueink_CA on 12/28/05 11:32am
Msg #84850

Jurat: A Jurat executed in CA must be in the form acceptable to CA, regardless of where filed. Government Code 8202.

Acknowledgment: Civil Code 1189 (b) Any certificate of ack taken in another place shall be sufficient in this state if it is taken in accordance with the laws of the place where the ack is made. (c) On documents to be filed in another state or jurisdiction of the U.S., a CA notary may complete any ack form as may be required in that other state or jurisdiction on a document, provided the form does not require the notary to determine or certify that the signer holds a particular representative capacity or to make other determinations and certifications not allowed by CA law.

Many times I have loans which have the lender and TC in another state but the property is here in CA. Most of the time the only ack in the package that contains the correct CA wording is the deed ack.

Reply by hcampersFL on 12/29/05 10:24am
Msg #85008

I still am confused. I have done many signings that were for title companys here in Fl that didn't have the proper wording for jurats and ack's for property located in Fl.
How is a CA notary going to know what is proper wording for all of the other 49 states? I don't know that, that is why I always use a Fl cert'. Maybe I'm wrong because Ca. notaries are all knowing? j/k
b.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 12/29/05 4:39pm
Msg #85105

Beverly... You don't need to know anything about any other state's notary laws. Just follow your own (FL) laws for all your notarial work and everything will be just fine. This is true in all states. If you follow your own state laws, your notarial certificates will be acceptable in all other jurisdictions.

Reply by hcampersFL on 12/30/05 12:06am
Msg #85218

Thank you Paul. I thought that was the point that I made when I first posted. Then someone else posted that I was wrong. I didn't buy it.
Have a happy New Year!!
Beverly