Posted by Calnotary on 12/22/05 9:56pm
Msg #84273

Subordination Agreement from Countrywide...

Does anybody knows if I have to notarize this document. I did a search and I end up with
conflicting information. Some say to not notarize other to go ahead and do it.

Thank you.

Reply by cntrlcalntry on 12/22/05 10:08pm
Msg #84276

On Countrywides "usually" they only have the deed to notarize.
On the one I had tonight the subordination agreement was not a notarized document.
Hope that helps.

Reply by Calnotary on 12/22/05 10:11pm
Msg #84278

This is a 2nd loan and it has a subordination agreement with four pages and initial lines, and
a signature line at the last page.

Reply by cntrlcalntry on 12/22/05 10:22pm
Msg #84279

If it does not have notarial wording on it I dont notarize it.
Have not had a problem so far. I have only had one I had to
notarize.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 12/22/05 10:34pm
Msg #84284

Subordination Agreements can be a separate and distinct document (which requires notarization) or it can appear almost as a rider. You didn't say whether an acknowledgment is included. From your post, it sounds like the subordination is included within the body of the second trust deed.

If it is not included (the acknowledgment), then I wouldn't notarize it. To decide on your own to notarize it, you would be guilty of UPL.

You didn't ask, but a subordination agreement puts a lien on real property (a trust deed) in a second or subordinate position, with the permission of the beneficiary of that trust deed.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 12/23/05 3:39am
Msg #84314

Re: Subordination Agreement - TitleGal

Are there Sub. Agreements that are signed by borrowers?? I've only ever seen them needing to be signed by the subordinating lender (which provides the new lienholder with sub's agreement to 'step down' to 2nd.) You know, the kind where the original would already be sent to title, and be ready to attach to new mtg for recording.

Looks like you're saying 2nd lien has sub. agreement as part of the mortgage, sometimes? Isn't that a bit of over-kill, if 2nd is put in place as a second to begin with?

Reply by Genkichan on 12/23/05 8:16am
Msg #84332

Re: Subordination Agreement - TitleGal

My understanding is that these agreements are not usually for the borrower to sign. They are for one lender to agree to have another lender subordinate a loan on the same property. Before you do anything, make absolutely certain that the borrower is actually supposed to sign the doc, and if the notarial wording suggests that anyone other than the borrower is appearing in front of you, then don't notarize.

Vicki/MD

Reply by Janet Angi on 12/23/05 8:41am
Msg #84337

Re: Subordination Agreement - TitleGal

I have been a closing agent for 10 years. Nothing is to be signed by the Borrower unless there names is listed. Make a copy of the document and have the borrower initial it and return in the package. Countrywide is one of the easiest to close. Read their instructions and you won't have any problems.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 12/23/05 9:31am
Msg #84351

Re: Subordination Agreement - TitleGal

Sorry - the post was incomplete.

No, subordinations (by themselves) aren't ever signed by borrowers, on a lender can subordinate their loan.

In seconds (DT's) subordination language shows up in one of two places; the bottom of the first page, as a statement (this deed of trust is second and subordinate...) or as a separate page (about a paragraph long) within the body of the document where borrower initials the page. There's a local credit union here that does this, and yes, it's overkill. Most title companies look at the order of recording to determine first or second or third position.

Sorry - I think I was more intent on explaining the document for those who didn't know, rather than answering the questions. My bad, thanks for pointing it out.

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/23/05 9:07am
Msg #84342

Once I had a Subordination Agreement - Renee'/Susan

The one time I have run into a Subordination Agreement - here's my story:

The City I live in gives 1st time homebuyers up to $6000 help in closing costs. The buyer has to live in the house for ten years before the $6000 is wiped from the slate - otherwise, the buyer must pay back the $6000.

Only once have I run into one of these while doing a refi. The city sent someone to the refi and they showed up with the subordination agreement. The story I was told is that the reason the city knew about it is because the borrower told the lender and called the city ahead of time. The city had already notarized their signature on the document.

I sent it in with the package - the city fellow that was here was adamant that *I* tell them to return that document to them *immediately* after recording as if he had some control over the speed of these actions. (He was a royal jerk.)

Maybe this will help give you a picture on the way a subordination agreement can come into play. It's not concrete and complete in my mind yet, but I know that the bottom line is that the city had a right to recover $6000 if this lady would have sold that house before the ten years was up. She refi'd and that was not selling, nonetheless a new agreement was made when the new DOT was made for the refi.

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/23/05 9:08am
Msg #84343

Oops - Renee'/Susan

I meant to ask if the lender I was doing the refi for had to sign the subordination agreement as well.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 12/23/05 10:29am
Msg #84374

Re: Once I had a Subordination Agreement - Renee'/Susan

It never fails Brenda...as soon as you think you've seen it all in real estate...someone shows up with a twist.

I remember another post about your "city fellow". I'd be willing to bet it was a first for him..this $6000 document. Seems the less experience someone has, the more demanding and unreasonable they become.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 12/24/05 4:12am
Msg #84500

Re: Once I had a Subordination Agreement - Renee'/Susan

That is TOO funny - every person I've ever had to deal with on those types of liens, regardless of whatever entity they represented (city, county, non-profit, etc) were JUST as much fun to deal with. It's as if that single piece of paper were crucial to the safety and well-being of the Planet Earth, and it all rested on that one person's shoulders.

P.S. how cute - you must know a Renee' to know to put in the accent mark =)